From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #683 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 23 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 683 In this issue: the_dojang: Super Villains and never letting sleeping pups lie the_dojang: REVIEW: Oct. 20 & 21 JR West Hapkido Seminar in Seabrook TX the_dojang: Class Format the_dojang: Combat Oriented Art...I must respectfully disagree. the_dojang: Re: TGT the_dojang: Re: TGT the_dojang: Fw: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #680 the_dojang: Re: : flexibility... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #680 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #681 the_dojang: Re: Super Villains and never letting sleeping pups lie the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:18:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Super Villains and never letting sleeping pups lie From: Dave Weller <.... I took said belt and diligently measured off (and I quote verbatim) "exactly two hips width in length". And then in accordance with "b"'s instructions I tied the rope around each ankle leaving two hip widths in between and (again verbatim) "then go through some training."...>> Enjoyed your post . One thing I thought about though, I know some short people with "wide" hips. It would be interesting to seem them with a belt "2 hips width" tied between their ankles and all that slack :-) Then again, there are the tall skinny types..... Mac (not attempting to do jumping spin kicks with a belt tied between my ankles!) ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:49:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: REVIEW: Oct. 20 & 21 JR West Hapkido Seminar in Seabrook TX REVIEW: Oct. 20 & 21 JR West Hapkido Seminar in Seabrook TX This weekend's activities wore me out! Although sore and stiff (and only a few bruises), I had a great time, great workout, and learned a lot. It all began with a pre-seminar workout Thursday night with Master Jere Hilland, who was in from Indiana for the seminar. We had a full room, with about 3 dojangs represented at Master Hilland's dojang in Northwest Houston that is run by Mr. Scott Hinchley. With my sore back I was able to do most all the techniques without too much discomfort. I did have to bow out of a couple of techniques where I began to feel the stress in my back - after all, I wanted to be able to survive the whole weekend. Friday night began the seminar with a black belt class that lasted several hours. It was hosted by Master Mike Kuns of the Iron Dragon Fitness & Self Defense dojang in Seabrook TX (who has an outstanding place). It was only about 1.5 hours by freeway for me and my kids. Master West brought 3 of his blackbelts as assistants, who were great. Master Rich Hodder also flew in from Colorado to add his technical expertise and help out. Master West has a great sense of humor that makes if extremely enjoyable and fun to learn from him. I was completely drenched with sweat by the time we left Friday night. It wasn't just me, but the girls were stiff and worn out too. We made it home late and I *had* to wash my dobak before I went to bed, so as not to offend my partners the next day. We were excited and wanted to tell (and show) mom all about it - but she didn't want us touching her and showing her what we learned :-) (she's not into pain all that much). We got up early Saturday morning to meet several other students and caravan together (after stopping for doughnuts). We arrived early enough that we got in a game of foosball before class began (yes, Master Kuns has a great, well equipped dojang!). After warming up together, the younger students worked together in another room (almost the same size as the main dojang!). We covered a lot of material between 9:30 and 1:00 for lunch break. The kids went home at this point, and the diehards who were gluttons for punishment continued on at 3:00. We went over more of the military techniques, which was great to do right after lunch because we didn't do a lot of falls (couldn't with these techniques!). We continued on with pressure points (all of mine are *very* active) and finished up a little early from Hapkido overload (was scheduled to go to 7:00pm). That was fine with me. I actually made it through Saturday's workout just fine, maybe the warmups we did helped relax my lower back (or hitting all my hyperactive pressure points made me forget the pain in my back :-). I'm glad I had the opportunity to relax with a few of the guys afterwards and then we went to get dinner with Master West and his instructors. The workout, commodore, and friendship I felt with Master West, his instructors, guests and students is what it is all about. I'll try not to miss an opportunity to train with them, and would highly recommend it to anyone. I know it's early, but start planning on attending the 14th international Hapkido seminar Master West will be hosting in Jackson MS in February. I want to personally thank Master Mike Kuns for hosting Master West for this Hapkido seminar. I believe this will become an annual thing. Thanks also go out to Master Jere Hilland and Master Rich Hodder for coming in from such a long way to help show us how to inflict even more pain.. I don't know exactly how many attended the seminar, but there were several dojangs represented that traveled a distance to attend. I know it was worth the time and investment for me and my students, as I'm sure it was for all who attended. Respectfully submitted, Master Mac, Oh-Dan TangSooDo ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:15:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Class Format From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" < I have found 1 hour is about all the kids can handle.>> I have a 1hr. class usually twice a week, sometimes scheduling a Friday night class. As I have mostly young kids and my classes are from 7:30 to 8:30, it is about all they can handle and is bedtime at 8:30. Most of the little kids are active in other things and sports too, so the 2 nights per week thing works out fine. I'd like to go at least 1.5 hrs. 2 times a week, because the 1hr / 2 x wk. is a bare minimum. I can't go later as it is too late for the kids, and earlier would be difficult for me. {shrug} Mac ------------------------------ From: "Stovall, David C." Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:20:49 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Combat Oriented Art...I must respectfully disagree. A person wrote: Ok, I'm gonna draw some fire for this one (bad pun), but in the spirit of healthy debate I'm going to offer some thoughts in response to this quote. To preface things, I want to state that I have nothing but respect for Hapkido (in all its manifestations...traditional, Combat, or otherwise), and for its practitioners. Furthermore, my post is not so much about Hapkido (even though it is used in the quote that spurred my little diatribe), but rather about the loose fashion in which many of us (martial artists) throw around terms like "combat" and "combat oriented". Also, this isn't about the person that offered the quote...I'm going to try and focus on the message, and not the messenger. Here goes. Simple question...how many of us REALLY believe that what we study is in any way, shape, or form related to "combat"? For purposes of this discussion, I'm defining combat as "fighting that occurs on a field of battle"...encompassing both armed and unarmed fighting. To me (and for purposes of my little rant) the battle of Normandy is "combat"...fighting for the honor of your girlfriend on the back parking lot of Pizza Hut, or dealing with a knife wielding rapist outside your apartment complex is NOT combat. Both of those latter examples may be VERY intense, VERY real, and have VERY serious consequences (the life and death kind), but they are NOT combat. I'm reserving that designation for the "battlefield" of war. In my opinion, the word "combat" is most often being used by certain people within the martial arts community to somehow separate themselves from the pack, and qualify what they do as being "more real" (for lack of a better term). If I only had a nickel for every time I've heard the phrase, "What we do is for real. We train for combat...not for sport". Train for combat? Any martial art that spends more than fifteen minutes on empty-hand fighting techniques is NOT "combat-oriented". Now why would I make such a blasphemous statement when there are so many talented, knowledgeable, and well-meaning martial artists out there calling what they do "combat" martial arts? The answer is simple...they're wrong. Never in the history of world war has the "karate army" ever stormed the fortress being held by the "judo commandos". Ridiculous example I'll admit, but I think it sheds light on just how ridiculous some of our notions on what combat IS and (more importantly) what it IS NOT. Now, I'll draw fire for this next statement...but fire away people...that's what this list is for. Ok...Hapkido is NOT a "combat-oriented art". Lest you think I'm prejudiced against Koreans, I'll go a step further and say that neither is Pentjak Silat, Kali, Gracie/Machado Jiu-Jitsu, Karate, Krav Maga, Hisardut, Wing Chun, or any other of your favorite interpersonal fighting systems a "combat-oriented art". They just ain't, folks. Now the Bujutsu proponents (who I deeply respect) will say, "Gotcha! Kenjutsu, brother! Used on the battlefields of Japan." Yes that's true. The same can be said of MANY arts that trace their heritage to the bugei arts of the mid-18th century. Know what...they're wrong too. They may be "obsolete combat-oriented arts", but that's all they are. Ever wonder why the Japanese abandoned these arts en masse and created the modern counter-parts of Kendo, Iaido, Judo, Kyudo, etc. A different time...a different product. It's funny how these old bugei arts weren't dusted off and used more extensively during Japan's bid for world domination during the 40's. My personal theory is that those arts were made obsolete what with the widespread use of firearms, munitions, and machinery (I realize I MAY be wrong on this one...some of the older folk who were around at the time may correct me). ;) So to wind this thing up. Combat-oriented arts...they're only taught in the military, and they usually entail the use of technology far beyond the closed fist, long bow, or short sword. Anything else (HKD, TKD, Karate-do, Tae Bo...you name it) is an interpersonal fighting system, nothing else. I'm sure some will argue, "Aw heck, Stovall...you're just arguing over semantics". Surprisingly enough...I tend to agree with that assertion. It's just words, and as such don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. It's just that "combat" strikes a nerve with me. Sort of a martial pet peeve if you will, and it's hard for me to resist the temptation of churning out my 2 cents on this subject. Hey, we all train for different purposes. Self-defense (the Krav Maga and RapeSafe folks), fitness (Billy Blanks and his money machine), street fighting (the Paul Vunak's and Tony Blauer's of the world), NHB/Vale Tudo (Mario Sperry, and a host of others who mispronounce their "R's"..he he), and self-improvement (Budo, Mudo, etc). All of these are valid, and many of us (like myself) explore many different areas. Sorry, but if you tell me you train for "combat", then you're gonna get a raised eyebrow coming your way. Maybe some of you do (who knows)....my guess is that most of you don't (I don't see how you could anyway). I realize this thing was long, and laced with more truisms than a Hillary Clinton speech at an AARP convention, but I just felt the need for sharing my thoughts. Please forgive if my humble opinion somehow knocked the prism through which you see reality...we all see the road a little differently. Peace ------------------------------ From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:31:18 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: TGT In a message dated 10/23/2000 7:59:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << So I dug around and found an old black belt I earned in Tibetan Gopher Tossing (not to be confused with Combat TGT by the way.) >> ROFL! Please, Sir, post ordering info for the video series on TGT, along with how to apply by mail for dan certification in same. :) ds ------------------------------ From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:34:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: TGT In a message dated 10/23/2000 7:59:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << By the way, I must give credit to Master West for coining Tibetan gopher tossing. >> So you actually trained with the founder of TGT? Cool! Make sure you get pictures with him so successive generations will not doubt your claims to pure lineage should you decide to teach it yourself. ds ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:41:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Fw: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #680 >Pellegrini. > >And you are also mistaken about his background...he has been training in >Hapkido for more than a few years....he was given an 8th Dan in Hapkido my GM >In Sun Seo. Mr Pellegrini was to be awarded an "honorary" 2nd dan in HapKiDo in 1989 or 1990 and failed to show up for the event. Please remember that In Sun Seo has NO rank in HapKiDo, but in KukSoolWon, and I know that I certainly couldn't promote someone to 7th dan in KSW with only my HapKiDo background, and Mr Seo's daughter says that her father is NOT Mr. Pellegrini's instructor for this very reason. ..J. R. West www.hapkido.com HapKiDo black belt since May 1967 ------------------------------ From: "Daniel G." Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:56:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: : flexibility... If you want results, you really need to hold it a lot longer than 20 seconds (if you're going the relaxed stretch route). It helps if you have something to distract your mind from the discomfort: music, TV, etc. ~Daniel, way behind the list... >------------------------------ > >From: Donnla Nic Gearailt >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:59:40 +0100 >Subject: the_dojang: flexibility... > >Here's yet another question about flexibility. I've been training in tkd >for >just over a year now. That combined with gym workouts mean I do a full >warmed-up stretching session around 5 times a week. However, my flexibility >has only improved a tiny amount. > >I hold each stretch for the requisite 15-20 seconds. I also practice >breathing >out while holding the stretch, relaxing the muscle and pushing the stretch >that extra bit like in yoga. > >But so far, no real results. Am I doing something wrong? I have been >following >the guidelines in a book on stretching I bought by a guy called Bob >Anderson. >He recommends gentle stretches holding the stretch for a reasonably long >time >(20 second min). > >Donnla. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Jerry Lynde Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:59:14 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #680 At 08:00 AM 10/22/2000, Beungood@aol.com wrote: ><< ake, for example, the kihap. we teach beginners to say "USSSSSSSS!" as >their > kihap. the extended "s", we believe, allows them to continue the breath > instead of choking it off prematurely. i was asked a few nights ago why i > dont kihap thusly. i said that one day, a natural noise came out as my >kihap, > instead of the "USSSSSS!" w >> >anyone have comments on the different noise emmitted for kihap? I noticed that when I'm "doing a kihap" it sounds like "die!" or "dite!"...at other times, like punching in horse stance during a belt test, when I'm 'in the zone' and not-thinking about kihaps and punches and just being the exercise that we're doing, my kihap sounds a bit like a barking seal. I wonder if that's the difference between "doing" and "being".... All I know is it feels and sounds more genuine when I'm barking like a seal. Jer ------------------------------ From: Jerry Lynde Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:03:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #681 At 06:15 PM 10/22/2000, David wrote: >Oddly enough, there is some work out there on kihap sul or kiai jutsu. >The legends say that old masters could drop birds from trees and stun >opponents. This was done through "projecting ki". There were >syllabaries of sounds which when used with the right mind set were >supposed to produce various effects. I'm reminded of the "Wierding Way" in Dune, where they use various sounds focused with equipment to cause explosions in things. Now that would be a nifty trick. :o) Jer ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:26:58 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Super Villains and never letting sleeping pups lie BWAHAHAHA! You got me with the Combat TGT and didn't let up. Outstanding post, sir! - --- begin quoted text --- From: Dave Weller Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:02:29 -0500 Ken McD posited that "b" might be some sort of super-villain. Myself, being an open minded sort decided to take some of "b"'s instruction to heart. So I dug around and found an old black belt I earned in Tibetan Gopher Tossing (not to be confused with Combat TGT by the way.) I took said belt and diligently measured off (and I quote verbatim) "exactly two hips width in length". And then in accordance with "b"'s instructions I tied the rope around each ankle leaving two hip widths in between and (again verbatim) "then go through some training."... I fell flat on my face when I threw the first roundhouse kick. I nearly ripped out my left hip when attempting a spinning crescent kick. (this time I ended up on my back.) A jump back kick was no more successful. (on the face again) I was able to do some standing Qi Gong without injury to myself, but I fear this is not the sort of training "b" had in mind. After a good thirty minutes hobbling and hopping around my basement looking like a dang fool I decided that being tied up was not for newbie martial artists like myself who have never learned the basics and I would leave this sort of intensive,and I might add, quite dangerous, training to those from the old school who are up to the task. With tongue firmly in cheek I remain, Dave Weller student P.S. By the way, I must give credit to Master West for coining Tibetan gopher tossing. I seldom get a chance to use the phrase in casual conversation, but I am always on the lookout for the opportunity to throw it in. "Practice a thousand hours(with a belt around your ankles) and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours (with a belt around your ankles) and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi (with parenthetical comments) - --- end quoted text --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin My MA school -> www.wuma.com My personal site -> sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:00:03 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #683 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.