From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #687 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 24 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 687 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #686 Re: the_dojang: holding for board-breaking the_dojang: =?utf-8?B?SW5zcGlyaW5nIEJvb2tz?= the_dojang: Combat MA? the_dojang: Kihap the_dojang: Gen Choi (pronunciation) the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #686 the_dojang: Tibetan Gopher Throwing the_dojang: RE: Combat MA the_dojang: Re: Re: breaking - hand protectors (Shurgard) the_dojang: One more... the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:10:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #686 Thanks Dana - I'll look for them in there. Thanks for the help! - --- begin quoted message --- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:37:14 GMT Subject: Re: the_dojang: holding for board-breaking On Mon, 10/23/00 "Jim Griffin" wrote: [snip] I've been trying to think up some useful ideas to protect board holders when folks are attempting to break. Has anyone out there come up with a clever (possibly mechanical) alternative to just "hanging on and praying"? Jim. The best product [and cheapest] I can think about and wholeheartedly endorse for protecting the holders' fingers is the Shurgard finger guard. About $20 for two, it is easy to use and made out of Lexon. Designed by a TKD master, I've used them for over ten years with no breakage to the product or damage to the fingers. If they are not still advertised in TKDT, let me know and I will give you the inventor's e-mail. What I like about the Shurgard is that people still have to learn how to hold boards. The downside is that often the holders are the weak link in breaking [but that is what training is for!]. Also, I've been doing alot of breaking lately in class [the reduced expense of re-breakable boards] and my wrists are starting to ache from people near-missing the center of the board and repeated shock to the wrists. This November I'm thinking of buying a Breakmaster board holder for home. This is so I can go downstairs and "break" anytime I want without having to have a holder/holders. I'll let you know how I like it when I get it, stack it up and play!! Dana - --- end quoted message --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin My MA school -> www.wuma.com My personal site -> sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Erik Kluzek Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: holding for board-breaking On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Jim Griffin wrote: > > I've been trying to think up some useful ideas to protect board holders when > > folks are attempting to break. Has anyone out there come up with a clever > (possibly mechanical) alternative to just "hanging on and praying"? > > Needless to say, I'm going to be very reluctant to hold in the future for > anyone I don't know. If there were some sort of board-holding stand out > there though... > As new 3rd Dan Jim Floyd pointed out there's the plastic hand protectors. But, if they are out of business -- as he pointed out -- that really is too bad. Another thing we do is use handbuilt wood board holders. It uses bungee cords to hold the wood on to a short stand. You still have people hold the board holder, but they don't have to worry about their hands getting smashed since they aren't anywhere near the boards. Using a board holder does make it much more solid as well. It's especially useful when you have a big stack of boards of about four or more, since it's hard for people to hold that many very easily. When just holding a few boards, the hand protectors are a good idea. I don't have board holder designs on hand, and it's a bit hard to describe verbally. I do recall there are some web-sites with designs, and you used to be able to buy them (at a fairly hefty price though). The simplest design just rests the boards on a notched 2x6" board on each side. These 2x6 boards are held at the right distance by being glued to a 1" (13.5"x18" or so) piece of plywood. The people then hold the plywood part. More advanced designs have a structure that you brace against your chest. For a real powerbreak you can also put your board holder up against a solid wall. Erik Kluzek Longmont CO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: =?utf-8?B?U3RvdmFsbCwgRGF2aWQgQy4=?= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:19:54 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: =?utf-8?B?SW5zcGlyaW5nIEJvb2tz?= I’d like to take the liberty of sharing the titles of some books that have inspired my personal journey in the arts. Perhaps others could share some of their personal favorites, or make comment as to what they’ve gotten from some of the books mentioned here. I’d especially like to hear of any books pertaining to Korean martial arts as I have found little on the market that weren’t of a technical focus. Here goes. ‘Karate-Do: My Way of Life’ by Gichin Funakoshi. This is a personal favorite of mine, and quite unique in that we rarely get a glimpse into the lives and thoughts of the old masters. ‘Moving Zen’ by C.W. Nicol. I believe this one is out of print now, but I definitely suggest getting a copy if you run across one in a bookstore. Although seeming a bit dated at times, this book is truly inspiring to me as it chronicles a man’s search for meaning and peace through the study of Karate-Do. ‘Oyama: The Legend, the Legacy’ by Michael L. Lorden. I have to admit that this bio of Oyama tended to be a little biased since it was written by a Kyokushin student, and probably only succeeds in further embellishing the countless legends that surround this man. Nonetheless, it gives inspiring insight to the great Mas Oyama (a Korean, by the way). This was a man who truly dedicated his life to the martial arts. ‘Zen and the Martial Arts’ by Joe Hyams. I ask you…who HASN’T read this one? Obviously, it’s not the weightiest text in the world, nor a comprehensive treatise on Zen, but it accomplishes its task in relating the spiritual aspects of the martial arts through short and interesting anecdotes. Highly recommended. ‘Living the Martial Way’ by Forrest E. Morgan. This book is great in that it covers the physical, mental, and spiritual aspect of the arts in a balanced way that is easily accessible to the casual reader, but deep enough to provoke thought in the serious student. I think in many ways this book has supplanted Hyams’ book as the benchmark on the subject since the former seems a little dated, and would be well served by an updated edition. I highly recommend Morgan’s work. ‘Zen and the Art of Street Fighting’ by Jack Sabat. LOL!!! Ok, there’s nothing really inspiring about this book, but if you haven’t read it…it’s a hoot. To be honest, the first three-quarters of the book are very interesting, and I was impressed by the authors tales of old-style, hardcore training. In the last five chapters, the author turns 180 degrees and morphs into Miyamoto Musashi and John Rambo’s love-child. Sort of like karate’s answer to the Marquis de Sade as he recounts beating up “challengers” at his dojo. YAAAAWN!!! Give it a try if you’ve got the time and money…at least it will show you what NOT to strive for. ‘My Journey in Karate: The Sabaki Way’ by Joko Ninomiya. Just started this one, but is very good so far. Much like Oyama, Ninomiya has definitely dedicated his life to martial arts. I’m a big fan of Ninomiya (the founder of Enshin Karate), and I also recommend his ‘Sabaki Method: Karate in the Inner Circle’ as a good technical reference for any martial artist. Lots of great techniques and principles that can be easily adopted regardless of style. This list is by no means complete, and I made a point of listing some that were most likely to be found in your local bookstore. Here’s a short list of others I’m planning on reading, but have not yet found the time. Perhaps some of you could offer some comment (and maybe save me the pain of reading a bad book..ha ha). ‘Moving Toward Stillness’ by Dave Lowry ‘Sword and Brush’ by Dave Lowry ‘Kodo Ancient Ways’ by Kensho Furuya Peace, and chicken grease. ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:37:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Combat MA? From: = <> No problem at all, thanks David. I didn't take it in anyway negative or pointed towards me, as you even stated in your original post/question. Actually, I felt the same way you do about it. Remember some of the arguments about "Combat Hapkido", and that was a misnomer because Hapkido was a combat oriented art already? I was referring to that message, and some of the training I received this weekend. Some of the stories from JR West, along with some of the "military" versions of the Hapkido techniques. Master West has actually used them in hand-to-hand combat. So it was all fresh and relative at the moment for me when I wrote the post. As I had mentioned, I personally have no military or law enforcement background, nor want to have. I practice the arts for the sheer fun of it, I realize many don't. <> He is, but he is also an active member of this list. This is also one of the points I like about Master West, is he has always made time to answer any questions I have and he is extremely helpful. My other/former instructor has called me up and yelled at me for asking so many questions . (I had tried to take the opportunity to ask a question or two in a cover letter when sending in my gup testing fees). I learned real quick to not ask so many questions. But that's the way I learn, I like the interaction, mental stimulation, and learning from other's experiences (and mistakes). Master West is a great martial artist, teacher, and friend. He is very honest in his answers, and yet has a great since of humor. Sorry to ramble on ..... Mac ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:39:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kihap From: "stryd" <> That's exactly the way I usually do my kihap, where it sounds more like saying the word "height". But I usually begin with the outward asperation making the "h" sound. Mac ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:48:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Gen Choi (pronunciation) From: "Ryan Shroyer" <... There is no "Choy" sound (as in boy, toy, coy) in Korean.>> Thanks Ryan (and others). I didn't think there was an "oy" sound, but I've always heard it pronounced that way I guess because of the English spelling (Choi). It was bugging me hearing Master Hilland say it that way, I was about to slap that boy silly..... (wellllll... maybe not- he'd kill me). Then Master Hodder was joining in and pronouncing it the same way (Chae). Master Hilland even noticed that he was pronouncing it "correctly" too. How could I argue with these guys that had it wrong, when either one of 'em could kick my ass blindfolded, on one foot with an arm tied behind their backs? Glad I didn't place a bet on it :-) So gentlemen, {bowing low} you are correct..... Now I just have to re-program my brain. Thanks for the clarification, Mac ------------------------------ From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:24:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #686 - ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:57:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: breaking - hand protectors Sounds useful. Could you describe these hand protectors? Thanks in advance! - - --- begin quoted message --- From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:56:55 -0600 There was a company putting out a plastic hand protector for the holder. I bought 3 sets of them and have been very satisfied. When I tried to buy more the company was out of business. Too bad since they work really well. This would be a good business opportunity for someone. - - --- end quoted message --- - - ---===--- Jim Griffin My MA school -> www.wuma.com My personal site -> sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Griffen, Think of a plastic mitten for your fingers that has an edge for the board to rest on. These are the Shurgard referred to by Dana Vaillancourt's E-mail. Jim Floyd Warrior Alliance Colorado ___________________________________________________________________________ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:37:14 GMT Subject: Re: the_dojang: holding for board-breaking Jim. The best product [and cheapest] I can think about and wholeheartedly endorse for protecting the holders' fingers is the Shurgard finger guard. About $20 for two, it is easy to use and made out of Lexon. Designed by a TKD master, I've used them for over ten years with no breakage to the product or damage to the fingers. If they are not still advertised in TKDT, let me know and I will give you the inventor's e-mail. What I like about the Shurgard is that people still have to learn how to hold boards. The downside is that often the holders are the weak link in breaking [but that is what training is for!]. Also, I've been doing alot of breaking lately in class [the reduced expense of re-breakable boards] and my wrists are starting to ache from people near-missing the center of the board and repeated shock to the wrists. Dana _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:29:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Tibetan Gopher Throwing Please remember that I am the originator of TGT and have trademarked this name for posterity, and any and all references to this art should be accompanied by a check to my favorite charity, the "Consolidated Association for Saving Horses" (which can be abbreviated C.A.S.H.) and mailed to me at my address. PS. I am rapidly running out of Tibetan gophers, so if any of you happen across a breeding pair, please let me know. I am also in need of several "state reps" throughout the country, that would be willing to host Master Booth (Australian rep for TGT) and myself for regional seminars (vegetarians should NOT apply)....J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Batter Up" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:35:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Combat MA Im a long time lurker (sounds sinister doesn't it), first time contributor. In reply to: Marshal Arts in Combat. I will relate my personal, first hand observation. I was drafted in 1968, spent 13 months in Vietnam, from May 1969, to June 1970. My MOS (military occupational specialty) was 11 Bravo (light weapons infantry). By light the Army considers the M60 machine gun light. Compared to other weapons, tanks, B52, and such, it truly is. I carried an M16, about one third the firepower of the M60. How light, and effective would the best-trained hands and feet be agents a single shot pistol? How effective could they fight carrying ninety pounds of ammo and every thing else one needs, food, ground cover, flack jacket, steel pot (helmet), three or four grenades, and a rifle. In sixteen weeks of training the most important thing that was taught, never get separated form your rifle. The infantrymans training in unarmed hand-to-hand combat lasts one day. We were taught three moves. Spear hand to the eye, kick to the groin, both with yell, and for silently taking out a sentry breaking a neck form behind. Never came close to using them in combat. The bulk of training consisted of marksmanship, both M16 and M14. We were expected to hit human shaped targets, from the waste up, at five hundred yards. Since the invention of gun power; knights in shining armor, and hands and feet aren't of much use on the battlefield. Most of our hand-to-hand combat training, about one week, was with the bayonet and pugel, SP, stick (a rifle sized stick with padding at either end). If you ever have to use a bayonet trust hard and pull it out quickly. Controlling a bayonet with two hundred pounds of dead weight handing on the end is very difficult. We were never issued bayonets in country. The true value of Marshal Art training is avoiding confrontational situations, self-improvement, and other esoteric benefits I havent discovered yet. Yours in training, Edward Duda ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:45:19 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Re: breaking - hand protectors (Shurgard) For those that are interested, the Shurgard hand protector for board breaking is carried by: Ken's Trading Company, 801 S. Dupont Ave., Suite A, Ontario, CA 91761 (800) 331-5367 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:23:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: One more... Please Ray, just one more. I've been home from work with a sick daughter a couple days, I promise I'll stop feeding the trolls after this... > >From: William Upton-Knittle >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:35:55 -0700 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Back it up > >At 10:45 PM 10/18/2000 -0400, you wrote: >>Again, 'b' refuses to respond to any of Thomas's points, David Reed's points, >>or my points, doesn't back up any of his pronouncements, and sticks in a slam >>at modern martial arts. A sophisticated troll, perhaps, but a troll. >>I'm getting tired of feeding him... >You can namecall all you want....or you can put the rope on your ankles and >see whether or not you REALLY know even the most basic of basic martial >arts training. Go ahead....tie a rope exactly two hips width in >length....then go through some training. You'll see real quickly your body >has not learned second nature to maintain the single most basic and >important part of your art. > Again, stance (especially static stance) is not the single most basic and important part of my art. Hapkido is the art of coordinated power -- the most basic and important part of my art IMO is controlling the movement of mass. That mass could start as my finger and become my opponent's body via a pressure point. It could be my footwork to a proper position and then my fist striking the right spot. It could be my hands doing a soft block merging with the opponent and folding a wrist into a joint lock, rotated to the center of mass of the opponent. That has become second nature to me, or at least I can do it with eyes closed in ANY stance. >You say I don't back up what I say....have someone who has no axe to grind >watch you and see how backed up I am.....or not..... >And any instructor who says this is NOT the basics of martial arts simply >doesn't deserve the title......go ahead and test yourself.........or not >(because we all know what will happen). You would have your belt taken away >in the old days if you couldn't demonstrate this level of knowledge and >control. > >b Sigh. 'Go try this' on a different subject does not constitute backing up what you've said on 10 other things all disputed with logical arguments by multiple posters. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:03:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #687 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.