From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #736 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 27 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 736 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #735 the_dojang: Re: Naperville Dojang the_dojang: James R. West / Judo Book the_dojang: Korean MA History the_dojang: Ranks in TKD the_dojang: Korean MA History the_dojang: Re: problems in the dojang the_dojang: Kuk Sool Won books the_dojang: Re: kukkiwon 10th dan and grm ro the_dojang: Re: Looking for Do-Jangs the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HKDHW@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:05:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #735 Naperville,Ill I believe there used to be a Hapkido Master Chang,Gedo he teaches in the area he is a student of Master Lee, Jung Bai who taught in the Va. area he also taught in central America. Hal ------------------------------ From: MJD99AB@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:12:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Naperville Dojang In a message dated 11/27/00 3:56:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:05:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Looking for Do-Jangs Still looking for a Do-Jang in Naperville, Illinois...can anyone out there give me some names, please? The One and Only... Tink >> Hi..I cant remember if you said Hapkido or TKD but there is a great Hapkido school in Naperville. Its called Changs Hapkido Academy and its on 1233 S. Naper Blvd, Naperville..630-983-9863. The instructor is a student of Master Gedo Chang and he is 4th dan (I think). His name is John Considine. I used to train with Master Chang and I highly recommend him. Mark Daley Chicago Hapkido/Brazilian Jiujitsu ------------------------------ From: (George Popofski) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:53:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: James R. West / Judo Book I recently became aware of a book titled "The Judo Textbook in Practical Application" co-authored by James R. West. Is this the same Hapkido Master James R. West of this forum? If so, could he (or anyone else who has read the book) provide a brief overview of what is covered in the book and what audience it is geared to (beginners, competitors, self defense...)? Thanks ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:32:45 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Korean MA History Mr. Sims, >There is a lot of very good historical material out there, but you probably >won't find it in BLACK BELT magazine ...< I am certain that you will never find a more factually - historically sympathetic editorial staff at BLACK BELT magazine than is currently in place. I highly recommend that you submit a/more? scholarly work on Korean MA to them. >What we received from our seniors is our gift from the past. What we do >with that information is our gift to the future.< Very well said. Getting in the Way, Patrick - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: assyahu@webtv.net (assya humesky) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:28:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Ranks in TKD According to the recent information from KukKiWon, there are two honorary 10th degree Black Belts: 1. Dr. Un Yong Kim, President of WTF-KKW and VP of Olymp.Committee; 2.Former President of Int.Olymp.Comm. Mr. Don Juan Samarancz. Eugene Humesky ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:11:26 PST Subject: the_dojang: Korean MA History > I am certain that you will never find a more factually - historically > sympathetic editorial staff at BLACK BELT magazine than is currently in > place. I highly recommend that you submit a/more? scholarly work on Korean > MA to them. Agreed. With our friend Robert W. Young in place as Executive Editor, Black Belt has greatly improved. But, IMHO, JAMA remains the journal for scholarly publications. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Arthur Lee" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:37:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: problems in the dojang hey all, Bruce W. Sims wrote: > What was the original intention? Was this to be a formal or informal program? Was the conduct and the curriculum to be in compliance with the standards for a nationally recognized organization, or was this more of a study group? In the absence of this "mission statement" we then move to point two. < I could attempt to answer this, but of course, I am not the Instructor am I? 8) But as far as I know, when my Instructor was in first year, he met another Gumdo practitioner of 4th Dan or so (?? I think...). And it was the idea of this other Gumdo BB to have a "club" for the two of them to practice Gumdo. One or two other people joined... and I guess that's where it started... the want to practice. As for a mission statement, it is unknown to me if one exists. I do know that each university club needs a constitution... *shrug* > Being an instructor is more than just taking the role. It comes with responsibilities like paperwork, testing, conflict resolution, consensus building, curriculum development and records keeping. < My instructor made people take positions so that not all of the paperwork would be placed upon my instructor's shoulders. Y'know, being a student does take up some time in one's life. >What will be required is to back-up a bit to the fork where your group took the wrong turn and now take the correct turn and you will not be able to do it unless everyone gets off the dime and gets involved. < While not everyone is not getting off the dime, my instructor is now rectifying the situation. We're taking a few steps back and choosing a different route. > Unless grades have certification, there is no rank. No honorary belts, freebies, or temps. Your instructor is responsible for establishing the necessary venues for testing and certification. He was asking for trouble handing out a rank he had no business handing out. < Yes, our grades do have certification, as our instructor has been sending the proper documentation to Korea to certify that we have achieved the belt that we receive. Unfortunately, finding either a cost effective way to send students to the masters, or bringing the masters to us, is difficult as paying for school really does make us pinch our pennies. The belt was given as an interim since we did not have any 1st Gup (half black/half red) belts, and when we got some, we only had two... for three people. Yes, it was a bad choice to give the student the BB, but it's already done. >In a more traditional setting the seniors would take him to one side and adjust his attitude. < Actually, in my experience, a more traditional setting would have the head instructor tell the student that the student has no more to learn from the dojang, and should leave until a time when the student feels that they are ready to learn once again. >However, one point on which I do not give way and that is that we are speaking of a MARTIAL art, and the core of that word bespeaks Discipline and Self-discipline in its base form. < YES!!! I totally agree. But mistakes can happen, and unfortunately... they did. 8( Thanks Mr. Sims Carl W. wrote: > Our club is a legally registered society and thus required to have a President, Vice-President, Treasurer, etc as well as financial reports, meeting minutes, annual elections, etc. *snip* >Because of the possibly transient nature of your leadership, this structure may not work for you. Good luck!< Thanks for the ideas Carl... I'll pass them on to my Instructor if they have not already been read. Dave Weller wrote: > - --response------> I'd say you're in a major pickle. Were I in a similar situation I would hold my breathe, and if I were receiving decent instruction, continue to attend classes and hope that upon graduation from the university the troubling individual will move and eliminate your headache, painlessly and without a big fuss. I guess the other tack would be to mastermind a coup and attempt to take over the "power" positions in the club.< I am graduating this year, as is the student. To add to the head ache, I am friends with both, and they are friends with each other (same classes). So it does make the situation difficult. >Better to focus on training than on politics in ANY circumstance.< Any day my friend, any day... wouldn't want another Florida incident happening... (hehe had to get my jibe about American politics in... no offense really 8)) Thanks for the support Dave Shaun M. Fortune wrote: >Arthur Lee 2nd Dan TKD 1st Gup yes... umm it's 1st Gup Hae Dong Gumdo... sorry forgot 8) > You definitely have a problem. *snip* > I am certain that you will get a lot of good feedback from the members of > this list. There is a LOT of knowledge and wisdom here and I am happy to be > a part of it. Yes I definitely do have a problem and that's the main reason that I brought the question to the digest. I have been reading for quite a while, replied a couple times previously under a previous email address, and have fully enjoyed being apart of this community of honoured individuals. I kinda feel humble under the "tutelage" I receive each time I read the digest (well... when it doesn't degenerate into finding out who the "riddler" was... 8P and no it definitely wasn't me... unless I've got multiple pers... I digress... sorry >Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that absolutely the worst case scenario would be that he could somehow vote out your instructor as the main instructor.< Just think on what havoc that can be wrought if MA are placed into the wrong hands. >By the way, if any of you have comments on my situation, feel free to throw your two cents in.< hmm... this is what my instructor is going to do: 1) remove his belt 2) make belt tests so that there are _NO_ spectators, only students who will test 3) laying out dojang etiquette rules for the test (at least), expecting students to comply by them, and also deciding which students are ready for testing and which students are not. As far as I know this is what my instructor is doing. The "no spectators" might rise from the fact that the student's girlfriend is testing, and the student has been a part of the judging for the previous two tests. I think that for now, your talking to your senior student should do the trick. but I would personally watch out for hidden resentment that this student might hold against you for whatever reason. It is, I believe, easier in your situation because you have these rules set out... but for us, we have no rules set about, "power" was given, and now it needs to be taken away, and the student is complaining like anyone would outside a dojang would. Whine, whine, whine. "My" student is quite good at making excuses. Oh well, I guess that I shall hear of the results soon enough. Thanks Shaun Arthur Lee ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:34:11 EST Subject: the_dojang: Kuk Sool Won books Carmelo, There are a number of books on the market on Kuk Sool Won today by Grandmaster Suh In Hyuk, In Sun Seo and Dr. Kimm, He Young. The first being Kuk Sa Nim and the DoJu of Kuk Sool Won the next is his brother and the Chairman of the Korean Kido Hae and The World Kido Federation. If you look up Kuk Sool Won on the net you can get more info directly from them or their organization. Kwan Jang Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:38:31 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: kukkiwon 10th dan and grm ro Ray, it was my understanding that kukkiwon recognizes two 10 th dans and both of them are honorary. one is to kim, un yong, and the other is the head of the IOC. If anyone has any information pertaining to this, please let me know. As i said, this is in my humble understanding, so i could very well be wrong. frank ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:38:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Looking for Do-Jangs Sir - I'm checking with a Master Kim in the area. His school is a branch of ours (Oriental Martial Arts College) and I know he has branches in that area. Master Kim is a great guy and very knowledgeable. - --- begin quoted message --- From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:05:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Looking for Do-Jangs Still looking for a Do-Jang in Naperville, Illinois...can anyone out there give me some names, please? The One and Only... Tink - --- end quoted message --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin www.wuma.com sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:14:56 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #736 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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