From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #741 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 29 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 741 In this issue: the_dojang: Gen. Choi's son and then Pratt vs. Sims the_dojang: Don Angier Soke, MA Magazines, etc. the_dojang: Gen. Choi's son the_dojang: whereabouts of .mt the_dojang: Re: Hackensack=D.Salt the_dojang: Pictures and meetings the_dojang: .mt is Malta the_dojang: Mother's back the_dojang: Kwan Jang Jung In Mok Re: the_dojang: Mother's back the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:09:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Gen. Choi's son and then Pratt vs. Sims Ray wrote: I found this statement from the knowledgeable Kim Sol of the USTU: "In 1984, his son, ITF 6th Dan, Choi Joon Hwa [now ITF General Secretary] was arrested for conspiracy to assassinate South Korean political figures, convicted, and sentenced to prison." He goes on to stating that he was released in 1990. Ray, was he arrested in Canada or in the ROK? I never did hear which it was. Bruce Sims wrote: I did not say that I don't follow the "academically approved historical line". What I said was that "your response seems to follow the generally accepted historical line." Now, unless I miss my guess, what this could do is put me in a position to make a statement, cite references to support those statements and help to correct some of the conclusions you have drawn. My best guess is that this would be process I would have to do while you are resisting my information or seeking to discredit it. I have to tell you, Andrew, that's a monumental task and probably a very tedious one for people who share this list with us. I think that this dispute between Bruce and Andrew is one of practitioner and academic. As an academic, I can see Andrew's side pretty well, but I also think that Bruce and Andrew's disagreement should be viewed as a chance for combining those two outlooks. Let me just say that if both sides were citing sources and putting a lot of effort into their responses, the newsgroup would be bettter for it. Bruce goes on to say: It is apparent from your responses that you have considerable insight into Korean history. Most people I know with this level of expertise usually apply it in such a way as to support, revivify, reconstitute, reconstruct, and/or affirm Korean Martial traditions. Put another way, unless I am reading your responses incorrectly, you seem to be invested in identifying what the Korean Martial tradition is not rather than what it is. Have I misunderstood? This would be a very curious position to hold for a person who has subscribed to a Net dedicated to Korean Martial tradition, ne? I've run into this one too. Practitioners of an art each have their own set of beliefs about the core elements of that art. Korean arts, in particular, have a problem with their history because the ROK's publications were anti-colonial and anti-Japanese for so long and because they were self-censoring as well. I know a lot of Koreans who swear that judo was invented in Korea 2000 years ago because they read it in a Korean encyclopedia, even though those outside the country (and many experts in the ROK) know perfectly well that it was founded by Kano in Japan. I think that Andrew's work is critical in an academic sense, ie. you shouldn't believe something unless it can be proven. The difference between Bruce and Andrew is, I think, the difference between religion and science. Neither one has all the answers. Bruce is correct that it is our task to affirm the good things that we have learned and make them better. Andrew is correct in that we need to constantly refine and question what we were taught, so that our development is on as firm a foundation as possible. Questioning our beliefs does not make us poor practitioners, and neither does affirming the best of those beliefs. Both are sides of the same coin. I hope you guys can resolve this, through personal email if need be, because both of you are making wonderful contributions to the Digest. Take care guys! Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:54:37 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Don Angier Soke, MA Magazines, etc. Dear Master Sims, >Thanks for the information. I spend quite a bit of time on the AIKIDO >JOURNAL Net working to keep the Hapkido string going. I had not heard >of >the other website so I will be checking that out very soon. Thanks >again. > >Sensei Angier is an extreme rarity in American culture in that he is >the >legitimate inheritor of the Yanagi-ryu, a traditional Japanese >Ryu. I have >not had the honor of training under him, nor of attending >one of his rare >seminars. There was a rather extensive thread in which >he was discussed at >length on either AIKIDO JOURNAL.com or EBUDO.com >and unquestionably holds >the respect of everyone who has had >experience with him. Apparently he >also something of puzzle in that he >has chosen to be somewhat of a MA >recluse and teaches only a very >select (limited) number of students. In >contrast, people who have >attended his seminars report that he is >engaging, supportive and most >willing to share information or provide >guidance whenever requested. I >wouldn't mind crossing pathes with such a >teacher. I understand there >is an event planned for late in the Spring >next year but have not >heard details as of this writing. An American being the legitimate inheritor of a system of koryu bujutsu IS something unique. I would be very interested in hearing any information about the event for next Spring if you get further details. I may be unable to atend as I am planning on getting married in July, but am quite interested. Aikido and Daito Ryu have always held my interest and I believe that Yanagi Ryu is also an Aiki Jujutsu type art. >BTW: I would like to second your comment on a sound quality Korean MA >magazine. The Japanese arts seem to have several fine publications. The >AIKIDO JOURNAL originally started as a bi-lingual magazine (AIKI-NEWS) >and >has just gotten better and better. JAMA is excellent but the >Korean arts >have to share with arts from all around the world. TKD >TIMES is ok but >carries many of the same pop limits as BLACK BELT, >INSIDE KUNG FU, INSIDE >KARATE, etc. I have a hard time understanding >why it is that the Korean >arts have not come up with a publication >along these line. EXACTLY. Now it seems to me that Korean MA's are among the most popular, at least in the U.S. I think it would be great to see a high quality journal type magazine that focused primarily on them. I'd even PREFER something that was a quarterly to try to keep up the quality of articles. I subscribe to TAEKWON-DO TIMES and will often peruse the other MA mags while at Barnes and Noble but would love for there to be something MORE. I love reading interviews with some of the older Masters and Grandmasters, especially since some of them are getting along in years now. (OK, I admit it. I'm one of those peope who actually likes history and thinks its actually relevant.) Frankly, I'd settle for reading an indepth interview, a well-researched article on history, or a piece on how a style's techniques have developed any day. Maybe AIKIDO JOURNAL's emphasis on the CLASSICAL has given it some actual CLASS. Something for the Korean MA magazines to think about, perhaps? >Of course I also remain mystified that there is not more engagement of > >Korean nationals in these discussion Nets, that there is not more > >information available regarding published Korean work, that there is >not >more bi-lingual material, and that there is the preponderance of > >splintering among Korean/US organizations. Material for another string? Those are good points. With the push on to get Korean MA's more publicity (especially Taekwon-Do), you'd think there would be more easily accessible information from Korean instructors and Masters (and no, I don't mean about Olympic-style fighting, I mean about Martial Art related topics). Then again, maybe I am just not looking in the right places. The super abundance of organizations may have something to do with this, I suppose. I agree that there's nothing wrong with healthy competition, but there seems to be a lot of competition and not a lot of cooperation. Again, just my opinion. >Best Wishes, >Bruce W Sims >www.midwesthapkido.com Thanks, Master Sims for the input and information. Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar ______________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 8:30:45 PST Subject: the_dojang: Gen. Choi's son > Ray, was he arrested in Canada or in the ROK? I never did hear which it > was. Not sure. I -think- Canada. Robert, do you know? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Carmelo Gauci" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:49:34 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: whereabouts of .mt >From: "Daniel G." >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:32:47 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: 2 cents >It's an expression that means "my small contribution". What country are you >in, by the way? I can't figure out what "mt" stands for. It's not Muay >Thai...not Montana...not Mount...Malta maybe? Hmm... >~Daniel Yepp ..... from the still sunny island of malta ... it is nearly december and today the sun was enticing me to go swim!! It is about time winter came ... I think mother nature forgot about us ... like most atlases and maps do!! hehehee ... regards, Carmelo. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:41:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hackensack=D.Salt - -A New Jerseyite asked: Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:31:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: What does Sil Jeon Do mean? Near where I work in Hackensack, NJ, there is a MA school that says Sil Jeon Do on the outside of it. I went to go check it out and the Korean instructor told me that it is "combination martial arts" type training, e.g. Tae Kwon Do, Hapikido, Judo, Mu Thai Kickboxing, and Sirum, to be specific. Has anyone heard of this Korean style?Thanks,David> Response: Unsure about Sil Jeon Do, but certain you will receive an interpretation. Hapkido and Judo, and Muay Thai=sounds not purely Korean,but could be interesting combination and training.Using the Hapkido joint locks judo throws and Muay Thai kickboxing techniques you would cover most of the important ranges. Hackensack= you near Rt. 17 and Rt. 4 ? Used to go to Main Street that had an excellent record store. Remember those 45's ? Had bins full of them. Guy would let you hear the record and then sell it to ya. Am I dating myself ? I would be curious on other martial arts schools in Hackensack and Paramus, NJ area ? McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:48:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Pictures and meetings Bruce, I the picture you are speaking of is one with 4 students (2 kids in front and 2 adults in the back), I would be the male adult in the back trying to keep up with the little black belts. If its a group picture of all the testing students, you could find me all the way in the back. There were only two of us with kumdo uniforms on, I was the one with glasses. I would like to meet sometime at the dojang. It would most likely have to be on a Saturday since my wife works Tuesday nights, so I watch the young ones, and I have Kumdo on Thursday. However, it would have to be after the holidays. Between my wife's birthday and my birthday and Christmas shopping, I am running around with my head cut off. ;) Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Daniel Monjar Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:30:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: .mt is Malta On 11/28 22:17 -0500, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > From: "Daniel G." > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:32:47 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: 2 cents > > >From: "Carmelo Gauci" > >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:18:35 +0100 > >Subject: the_dojang: Fw: kuk sool books > > It's an expression that means "my small contribution". What country are you > in, by the way? I can't figure out what "mt" stands for. It's not Muay > Thai...not Montana...not Mount...Malta maybe? Hmm... > > ~Daniel .mt is Malta. - -- Daniel Monjar (mailto:dmonjar@orgtek.com) "If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush." ------------------------------ From: "donna galster" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:42:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Mother's back Hi all. Just letting you know I am back on the list. Most likely to lurk for a while until my semester is over. I am done with this one on the 18th of Dec. I have my classes picked for next semester and they get done at noon everyday. Less stress on me I hope. Speaking of stress. I quit my federation today. It is becoming no longer a pleasure for me to be there. I handed in the keys and packed up my belongings last night. As of for now, I am looking. I may join Parks TKD for my kids sake. They might like the tournament style of it. As for me, I will continue to practice kyukido on my own but I no longer desire to be part of the federation. Too much blasted politics. Too much of not practicing what you preach. Too much back stabbing people. A lot of unhappiness right now that needs to be fixed. I do not need to be going through that right now. Glad to be back on here Ray. Nice to be a part of your list again. I hope we can continue doing some good discussions on here. Donna _____________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:23:32 EST Subject: the_dojang: Kwan Jang Jung In Mok Mr. Howard, My Instructor trained directly under Jang In Mok, for many years and has spoke of him often. He has told me over the course of the past 27 years that Jang In Mok did not have many students and that most of his teaching was done on a very small scale with only one or two students at a time. My teacher is Grandmaster Choi, Han Young. He presently resides in El Paso Tx and can be reached at (915) 751-3884. He speaks English however he is much more confortable with Korean and I 'm sure that he would be happy to talk to you about Grandmaster Jang In Mok. You would get a better explination if you speak Korean. However Grandmaster Choi, can make himself understood in English you just have to listen close. It seemed strange to see Jung In Mok name after so long. Good luck with your quest. I hope that this helps. Kwan Jang Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:14:10 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Mother's back > Glad to be back on here Ray. Nice to be a part of your list again. I hope we > can continue doing some good discussions on here. Welcome! Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:15:39 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #741 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.