From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #746 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 2 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 746 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 the_dojang: Re: Choi Hong Hi autobiography the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 the_dojang: back up... ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:43:20 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 Dear DS: Regarding Dan Jon breathing (AKA Dynamic Breathing) we use a separate breathing technique for each of our 4 Guep and 1st BB ranks from Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido. Breathing is also stressed as a very important part of breakfalls and bag work, one-step or any other situation where one is accepting technique. One difference is that other than making sure to keep ones' self oxygenated, we do not stress any particular breathing pattern for performing the technique. My experience has been that by encouraging the practitioner to breath they seem to naturally develop the most effective pattern for executing their technique. As long as they are not stopping or holding their breath most students seem to naturally fall into an effective breathing pattern that supports effectively executing the technique. FWIW and Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:11:28 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 Dear Todd: I think you make some very valid points regarding the character of the art that GM Choi taught. I also think that you set the foundation for taking yet another step in this discussion. If I had to put in into words the question it would sound something like "Given the nature of such Japanese arts as Daito-ryu Aikiju-jitsu, Judo, Karate-Do, Kendo and Kyu-do, and their influence on Korean MA culture, what then is the nature ("true face") of Korean Martial tradition." For example, you mentioned that the art taught by GM Choi closely approximates Daito-ryu except for kicking which was added later (and by some reports against the wishes of GM Choi). I have mentioned the common use of Korean weaponry which, of course, was not taught in Japan to GM Choi but most probably also melded into the art later as well. GM Lee reports blending in techniques of his teacher, Ahm Dosa, and GM Seo has incorporated Chaun Fa which is, of itself very popular in Korea. There is also the matter of traditional Korean wrestling, the tradition of both Chin Na and Shaio Chaio (sp) as it has impacted the mix. GM Kimm recently presided over a tour of Korea which included a visit to what was purported to be one of the few ("last"?) traditional Buddhist temples with a MA tradition. Currently the Mu Yei 24 Ban people are seeking to revivify the Forms and techniques of the MU YEI TOBO TONG JI, and the HAI DONG KUMDO people seem to compete with the HWA RANG KUMDO people regarding whose art more authentically represents the nature of Korean swordsmanship. (BTW: I have made a point of not getting involved in that last contest. I am HRK but am way too busy with training to get my undies in a knot.) In the end, then, I wonder what it is that we hold as that unique item called Korean Martial tradition. I know what I hold in my heart, I thought it would be interesting to hear how other people define things. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:19:37 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Choi Hong Hi autobiography >Robert Martin wrote: > >I just picked up a copy of Choi Hong Hi autobiography. ... The English >version just arrived in the US in the last >few days. Where can I get it? I couldn't find it on amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com. Sincerely, Anders T. B. ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 21:58:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #745 todd miller wrote: > I just wanted to add that Doju Nim Choi claimed Takeda as his teacher > and serogate father long before Daito Ryu was popular. I'm not sure about "popular," but Daito-Ryu was _exceedingly_ prestigious in Japan. Different from popular, but in terms of linking a lineage to it, if you claimed rank from Daito-Ryu it was very different from Joe Bob's Jujutsu academy down the street. > Choi made no > false claims like Hapkido is a 2000 year old strictly Korean martial art > either. Choi taught Dai Dong Ryu Yu Sool which later became Hapkido and > from what I have been told by one of his early students (before GM > JI)Choi gave no illusions about it. We will never no the exact details > of the Founder's study in Japan. I think it is important to note that > it was 56 years ago and if there are any that are still alive that could > have seen or known Choi it would be VERY few. As someone has already mentioned, I believe, there are still plenty of people alive from that time who would indeed know. For anyone interested in the Daito aspects and history, I _highly_ recommend getting a copy of _Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu: Conversations with the Masters_, by Stanley Pranin. It is a book of interviews with various Daito-Ryu masters, including Takeda Sokaku's son. Very interesting read, and good stuff. Mr. Pranin was involved with _Aiki News_, and the _Aikido Journal_, and his stuff is almost universally worth reading, no matter what style you practice. (Forgive errors in the names above---my copy is out on loan at the moment, so they are close, but might not be precisely correct. I _think_ Mr. Pranin was the editor for the various publications, but again, I'd have to get my book and check.) > I would like to add that > most of the Hapkido that I have seen in Korea and elsewhere is different > than the original system Choi taught. A number of people have said that what Choi taught towards the end of his life was different from the original system that Choi taught----which is interesting, considering my quotes from the interview with Sheya and Rim, in the last digest or so. > The Hapkido that Choi taught and > is still taught at the Jungki Kwan in Taegu looks and feels very much > like Daito Ryu with the exception that there are more kicking > techniques. For curiosity, what Daito experience are you comparing this with. It isn't that I disbelieve you, I'm just curious as to what you base this on? For example, my experience with Daito is limited to a number of books, and the one practitioner here in town who teaches aikido, but practiced Daito while in Japan. > I feel that it is important for all of us that practice > Hapkido to study what we practice and teach because we will either find > the answers or lack of in our own Hapkido motions. Let me close with > the most important thing is enjoy what you do and grow as a person as > you train. I quite agree, in your last sentence at least. I will say we won't find many historical answers in our Hapkido motion, though. :) Also wanted to remark to Bruce Sims----excellent postings, thus far. I appreciate the time you put into saying them, and thus far, your findings about the historical facts (and such) about Hapkido have matched my own. It is nice to know that my conclusions so far aren't entirely the imaginings of a fevered (and confused) brain. By the way, when is your Dojang Journal: Level IV going to come out? Thomas - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Hap.html "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:14:35 PST Subject: the_dojang: back up... The move is over. The list is back up... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #746 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.