From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #752 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 6 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 752 In this issue: the_dojang: breathing - the_dojang: Hapkido mystery ... er I mean history the_dojang: Combat Hapkido or Real Hapkido the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 the_dojang: private email the_dojang: Combat Scmombat & Rank the_dojang: Reasons for promoting after 1st dan the_dojang: Re: cut kick the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 the_dojang: Re: Dan rank the_dojang: getting breath black the_dojang: replying the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:32:56 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: breathing - Dear Carmelo Gauci, >I have a tendancy to hold my breathing while doing a kick or a combination >of kicks, especially during sparring, and kicking the bag.< Withour knowing your level of expertise, I will give you the "easy" answer. Please forgive me if I have gone too simplistic .... Practise kicking and Kiaping at the same time. Ignore the "loss" of concentration. It is a temporary splitting of concentration. Practise will make the two actions become one in your mind. Getting in the Way, Patrick _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:42:46 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido mystery ... er I mean history Dear Mr. Sims, Mr. Roders provided a list of people to contact regarding insight on GM Choi. Should you pursue these gentlemen, after having read you, I am pretty sure you will be able to predict and evaluate the responses you will receive. For real insight however, you may wish to ask each about the other. Getting in the Way, Patrick _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:49:43 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Combat Hapkido or Real Hapkido Dear Mr. Payne, If your interest is in Hapkido, I would recommend trying Hapkido. If your interest is in Joint Locks and throws, then Hapkido, Jui-Jitsu, or Kung Foo San Soo should fill the bill. I am sure others from this group will have more ideas. Getting in the Way, Patrick _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "richard hackworth" Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:47:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 I am amazed that some of you would e-mail insults to me because of my comment about the USTU. You are right, I am not a member. But the USTU has problems that cannot be solved by being an active member and voting. As an American instructor you have no voice in the USTU. Just like the Klu Klux Klan. I am not a member of that either, and even if I did join and vote, it would not make them any better for the rest of us. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:40:58 PST Subject: the_dojang: private email > I am amazed that some of you would e-mail insults to me because of my > comment about the USTU. You are right, I am not a member. Dr. Hackworth and everyone else, It is better to respond to private emails privately and keep it off the list. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:23:06 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Combat Scmombat & Rank Dear Richard Hackworth, >If JP wants to call his system Combat Hapkido that's up to him.< Your cavelier attitude to Mr. Pelligini's choice of names is not shared by many of us in Hapkido. However, In keeping with your philosophy I recommend that all Hapkido studio's out there begin teaching a Martial Art based on the current trends, and call it "Real Combat Hapkido". I am sure no one in "Combat Hapkido" would have any problem with the name choice. >He makes no special claims about it other than it is a scientific system of >self defense based on the principals of Hapkido.< Which principles? The water principle, the circle principle, or the ki principle? Getting in the Way, Patrick - - - - - - - - - - - - - - On the issue of title & rank; >But besides that, what is the real reason? Is it prestige? Is it the >title of master, grandmaster, whatever?< Why mother, why grandmother? I believe it is a sign of respect. My rank does not tell me who I am, but it reminds me of who I must help (all those of lower rank). Getting in the Way, Patrick _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:44:32 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Reasons for promoting after 1st dan >Very cool. This kind of brings up a point that I have discussed with some >of the black belts in my school but I'm not certain I have ever come up >with a completely satisfactory answer. What is the point of going up in >rank once you reach black belt? There is, of course, the very obvious >learning of one new form which is all I have at my rank in taekwondo. >(Haven't reached dan rank in hapkido yet.) But besides that, what is the >real reason? Is it prestige? Is it the title of master, grandmaster, >whatever? I'd be interested to know the thoughts of the people on the list. > Feel free to reply on- or off-list.< What is the point of advancing in rank after a first dan? Well, continuing to acquire knowledge would be the primary consideration. In my school we learn three new patterns per dan level instead of just one. Also at dan levels there are new flying kicks to learn (multiple flying kicks begin at first dan - pretty lucky ;), applications of patterns, foot sparring, various self defense techniques (sweep, joint locks, and some throws) etc. Besides this there is the continued polishing of techniques that one has already been taught. If one would say there is no reason to advance in rank after black belt one is drawing an arbitrary line and saying there is no learning that takes place after that rank for some reason. It's kind of like asking what the point is to advancing in rank after white belt. To get better. First dan is kind of like being a tenth gup. You realize that you're a beginner. Now this brings up the question, "Since there's only a limited number of dan levels but it's always possible to learn more, shouldn't there be an unlimited number of dan levels." No. Nine is a very symbolic number in Korean culture (see recent discussions on this topic). So it is a good symbolic level for one's attainment of a high level of proficiency and understanding of one's system. It's kind of like the number seven being symbolic in Judaism: when you swore a covenant oath you "seven-ed" yourself, also the number of the Sabbath day. Numbers are symbolic of higher meanings in different cultures. You could say that ninth dan is the perfection of the dans in Korean culture. Coincidentally, Ueshiba O'Sensei never claimed any rank in Aikido (that I know of) because he was the founder of the style. He was higher than even his highest students because he was the one that introduced them to Aikido. Just some food for thought. Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:04:14 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: cut kick In a message dated 12/5/00 11:11:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: actually, the cut kick is tkd....or at least wtf tkd. it's a defensive move, actually. it's most often used to stop an attacking kick. it's mostly for tournament sparring and was born out of that atmosphere. basically, you chamber your knee, using it as sort of a push kick to cut the opponents attack. you can also use it to push away an oncoming kick by cutting down their kicking technique with yours. melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.chajonshim.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:50:55 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 In a message dated 12/5/00 5:14:50 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Probably goes back to the question of what a black belt (i.e. Il Dan) means. Is it the end, or simply the beginning? Ray Terry >> In every black belt ceremony I have done I say:" earning your black belt is not the end of the journey, but rather the beginning. If you wear this black belt tonight, but never wear it again, are you really a black belt? I think not. A black belt is one who lives the walk. It is a way of life." gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:20:49 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dan rank I guess for those whose systems are limited, further dan ranks beyond 1st may seem superfluous, but in a broad based system, you lift yourself up by each dan rank. A 1st dan is the equivalent of learning numbers and simple addition. While you might get an argument about how you don't need more math, you find as you go through school that your addition and subtraction become very good. Not because you concentrate on them, but because you've moved beyond them to the point where they are second nature. As one trains in a system that has dan ranks, the rise in ranks is like learning more math. You may not do much differential equations or fractal calculations, but your division is real good. And if learning more forms is only allowed through testing, how long can you stand to do only TG 1-8 and Koryo, anyway? Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Bernard Maginnity Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:59:59 +1100 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: getting breath black Something I found out yesterday. A non-smoker can spend 2 hours in a smokey room and breath in the equivalent of 4 cigarettes. If non-smokers breath-in 4 cigarettes do smokers breath more or less? - ------------------------------ >you. Thus for you as for all warriors everyday is a good day to die." Very cool. This kind of brings up a point that I have discussed with some of the black belts in my school but I'm not certain I have ever come up with a completely satisfactory answer. What is the point of going up in rank once you reach black belt? There is, of course, the very obvious learning of one new form which is all I have at my rank in taekwondo. (Haven't reached dan rank in hapkido yet.) But besides that, what is the real reason? Is it prestige? Is it the title of master, grandmaster, whatever? I'd be interested to know the thoughts of the people on the list. Feel free to reply on- or off-list. Why grade once on black? IMO this is for a couple of reasons, based on my personal experience. Having been a part of an organisation which promotes very slowly. ie minimum 5 years on 1st degree before being considered for second degree if at all. This means that the organisation has a high attrition rate among 1st degrees. I looked at this and wondered why it was. It was very easy to stay focused going through the gup ranks as there was a definate time frame on it ie three to six months per grade. Once we reached 1st degree not only was there not a definite time frame, but the definition of what we were learning was also blurred. IMO the best way to retain and continue to enthuse and develop black belts (or people in general) is to set goals and targets. To keep up the motivation a structured learning environment (even if it is loosely structured) helps to retain interest/motivation. This doesn't need to be via belt promotion, but for the average person the promoting through the ranks involces setting a goal and achieving it, with the belt being a recognition to self and others that you have set and achieved the goal. This is the reason why I find value in promotion after black belt. Some may disagree but from my experience this holds true. Bernard ------------------------------ From: "Daniel G." Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 03:11:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: replying >------------------------------ > >From: "Diane Goodman" >Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:42:38 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Subject in your mail > >Just a fussy thing - could you all try to put an actual subject in your >subject line, like "Re: Hapkido history" or "Re: Kicks," instead of just >"Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #748"? Often you have to get way into a message >before you can figure out what it's about. Thanks! > >Diane It also helps to quote what you're replying to. (Bad grammar, I know.) Bruce, I notice you tend to use generic subject lines & not quote what you're replying to. I enjoy your posts, but often I'm confused as to which conversation you're responding. Just a little constructive criticism; keep up the good work. ~Daniel _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Todd Worth" Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:44:42 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #751 > From: "Mac" > Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:54:11 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: Scary thing happened last night > Weird things happen. They certainly do... I was woken from my sleep a few weeks ago by the sound of breaking crockery... Turned out I had kicked the bad guy in my dream and connected with a coffee mug next to my bed... Sent it flying clear across the room where it shattered on the wall... I thought that it was weird but my instructor told me that it was good that I was visualising my techniques in my dreams... My only worry, like you, was that I might hurt my girlfriend. Is there a way around this? You mentioned that you subconsciously know that your wife sleeps on your left... Does that mean that even in your sleep you avoid that side? Unfortunately my girlfriend does not train with me and probably wouldn't stand much of a chance, let alone 'kicking my ass' :) Cheers, Todd ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 5:45:44 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #752 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.