From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #762 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 8 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 762 In this issue: the_dojang: Rank and respect the_dojang: "Real" TKD...LOL!!! the_dojang: Vintage Star Trek MA the_dojang: RE: Kudos to Craig the_dojang: Credentials the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 the_dojang: Kukkiwon database the_dojang: Hae - Hey - It ain't hay the_dojang: Re: master pak's book the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick L" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:09:36 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Rank and respect Dear Donna, >I feel the person makes the rank. I have to respect them first. To me, if I >really honestly do not respect that person, then Sir, Master, Ma'am, and >Grandmaster has no meaning behind it for me.< IMHO having "respect" only for those people you like, or who don't abraid you is too narrow a focus of the term. Getting in the Way, Patrick _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: "Real" TKD...LOL!!! Gary wrote: "Wow, Craig, what a reply! but you seem to have missed my tongue in cheek satire indicated by the :)." Oops...LOL!!! So that's what that extra colon and parenthesis is for? I'm sorry if I misconstrued your statement. My bad. John wrote: "When you look at street fighting there is a artical in a recent issue of TKD times that was writed by a construction worker in NY in which he found that most real worl street fight knock out were deliverd by TKD trained fighters." Wait a minute...are you trying to say that most knockouts in the street are done by TKD fighters, or are you just saying that TKD fighters are capable of knocking people out in the street? The syntax of your statement is a little hard to follow. First, I won't deny the fact that a well trained TKD fighter is able to KO anybody in a street altercation if that's what you are saying. Second, if most of the world's "street knockouts" (is there an almanac on this data...he he) are being carried out by TKD people, then we've got a SERIOUS problem with the values we're passing along in the dojang. All these TKD people fighting in the street and knocking people out? Ooooooookaaayyyy. John continues: "You are correct a fight is a fight and anything goes but real Taekwon-Do is a martial art and has all of the techneques needed to properly defend your self in a real fight." I guess that depends on your definition of "properly defending" yourself, and "real fight". For simplicity, let's take a very simple example...groundfighting. Fighting on the ground happens in self-defense situations...to argue against this point is ridiculous. Traditional TKD training (ITF, WTF, whatever) does not impart the necessary skills and knowledge to function in this environment. The greatest fighter in the history of TKD would be mincemeat in the hands of the average BJJ blue belt once that fight hit the deck. Sad, but true. You can deny it all you want, but TKD does NOT have "all of the techniques". "Please don’t confuse WTF sport style with the ITF martial art." I appreciate the clarification, but I'm well aware of the difference between ITF and WTF. As a matter of fact, I'll be so bold as to say that the WTF has just as much right to call what it does a "martial art" as does the ITF crowd. They're both so removed from anything "martial" that even glaring differences between the two styles are reduced to nothing but philosophical debate. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion...I just gotta call 'em as I see 'em. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Tkdsusan@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:22:45 EST Subject: the_dojang: Vintage Star Trek MA Chris, the vision of Captain Kirk's 'two-hands-clasped-smack-on-the-shoulder' certainly brings back memories! However, my personal favorite was Mr. Spock's 'Vulcan Neck Pinch' -( nothing like a good neck tweak to drop a person to their knees~!) Wow, the good old days of T.V. Martial Arts! Taekwon! Susan Susan Kirk tkdsusan@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:09:48 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Kudos to Craig I'd concur with Ray & Gary on the compliments on the post, and gently remind any who were outraged by a perceived attack on our beloved art that humility & integrity are rare virtues. I think its vital for any MA practicioner to have a realistic view of the strengths and limitations of their art. One thing I particularly liked about Craig's composition was the balance between realistic criticism and acknowledgement of the value of the art he was criticising. - -JW From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:01:49 PST Subject: the_dojang: having it all Gary: Wow, Craig, what a reply! but you seem to have missed my tongue in cheek Gary: satire indicated by the :). Ray: But he made a lot of excellent points. IMHO, a great post! And the points Ray: were true for ANY style of TKD. ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:26:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Credentials I search all over www.kmaia.qpg.com and could not find out about your training background. Can you give me the exact URL. I am looking for something like GM Sell has at his website. - http://www.uscdka.com/pages/gmsell.html > From: "richard hackworth" > Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:18:46 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #760 > > Jeremy. You can find out more about my training background by going to > www.kmaia.qpg.com thanks for the fan mail. You may also check out > www.hackworth.com and www.hackworth.org ------------------------------ From: "donna galster" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:36:01 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 >Come on, Ray, CHiP's? Everyone knows that the best show for martial arts >skills was "STAR TREK" (the original, of course). There's nothing like a >Capt. Kirk two-hands-clasped-together-smack-on-the-shoulder to demonstrate >the acme of MA skill. Now THAT is something no one would want to mess with >(even the Gracies or the ICHF folks ;-). Hey, you are talking about a show that I used to love. But, back in the 70's we did not have much choice. Erik Estrada could not ride a motorcycle worth a darn and still can't. I think he trained in some martial arts too. As far as Captain Kirk, you forgot to mention the judo rolls. Not to mention, Spock's amazing pressure point techniques. Donna ______________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:28:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kukkiwon database Mike Rowe said: 
A quick note based on Kukkiwon's own database

Can you tell us how to access that database.
------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:37:26 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Hae - Hey - It ain't hay After reviewing the list of "Hapkido" organizaions, we might legitimately ask; "what are/were they (GM Choi, GM Ji, & GM Seo) thinking. How is this beneficial to the growth of our art?" Patrick Founding, Naming, and Propagating Supreme Graham Cracker Real Combat Hapkido _____________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:02:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: master pak's book In a message dated 12/8/00 2:40:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Sometimes I'm amazed at how much of an effect Master Pak has had on the > growth of martial arts through the US. he's also got an excellent taekwondo book available. i've seen them available at farrell's tournament in Des Moines, Ia. I would imagine, if anyone's interested, they could contact master pak directly for his book. melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.chajonshim.com Proud Sponsor of the 10th Annual 2001 US Open Taekwondo Championships ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:04:11 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 In a message dated 12/8/00 4:41:15 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Jeremy. You can find out more about my training background by going to www.kmaia.qpg.com thanks for the fan mail. You may also check out www.hackworth.com and www.hackworth.org ------------------------------ >> The pictures in these web sites don't match, I'm confused. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:56:03 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #762 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.