From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #763 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 9 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 763 In this issue: the_dojang: Respect and Rank the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #758 the_dojang: Respect. Should it be because of just the title? the_dojang: Check this site the_dojang: Hackworth History the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #759 the_dojang: Titles, life, and it's a Good Day to Die! the_dojang: Re: ED sell and dan signatures. the_dojang: Mr. H's Information the_dojang: Re: tkd reform the_dojang: Re: michael rowe and the uscdka the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #762 the_dojang: Re: al cole and false claims the_dojang: TKD facts the_dojang: Final reminder... the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "White Lotus" Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:49:32 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Respect and Rank Hello, Respect for yourself leads to respect for others. When you see someone and they produce the "I don't respect them" or "they are not worthy of respect" reaction in you, then it is a good signal for you to look deeply within yourself. Everyone is worthy of respect regardless of their rank. Best to All and Happy Holidays! Mark White Lotus ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 04:02:11 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #758 - --part1_4e.e796db4.27634f13_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/8/00 9:09:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > I am not a big fan > of Olympic TKD and am glad that they choose to differentiate between Real > TKD > and Olympic Style. > > gary pieratt > > I trained in Tae Kwondo Chun Do Kwan from a 1st Dan (1984 - a student of Bill Draw/Grandmaster Sang Kyu Shim) He said there was a big difference between them. in technique and philosophy... - --part1_4e.e796db4.27634f13_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/8/00 9:09:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:


I am not a big fan
of Olympic TKD and am glad that they choose to differentiate between Real
TKD
and Olympic Style.

gary pieratt



I trained in Tae Kwondo Chun Do Kwan from a 1st Dan (1984 - a student of Bill
Draw/Grandmaster Sang Kyu Shim)  He said there was a big difference between
them.  in technique and philosophy... - --part1_4e.e796db4.27634f13_boundary-- ------------------------------ From: "donna galster" Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 06:21:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Respect. Should it be because of just the title? > >From: "Patrick L" >Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:09:36 -0800 >Subject: the_dojang: Rank and respect > >Dear Donna, > > >I feel the person makes the rank. I have to respect them first. To me, if >I > >really honestly do not respect that person, then Sir, Master, Ma'am, and > >Grandmaster has no meaning behind it for me.< > >IMHO having "respect" only for those people you like, or who don't abraid >you is too narrow a focus of the term. So, what do you expect me to do Patrick? Just respect the person because he has trained longer than I? There are some things that the person does need to be called Master for if that is the case. But, there are other things that a person has yet to learn, and some has not even made the effort to do. Any person can fight. Have they made any efforts to improve their mind, personality, attitude? These are also things I look for in a Master. Not someone who acts uppity to me and goes around purposely hurting people even if they were hurt first. They are human with feelings just like me. Don't stick your nose up at me and act Master-like or you will not get results from me. To me, it would be like those stuck up prissies in high school. Not worth my time or money to train with. It should not be thought of this way because of the way that they did it for years and years, generation after generation. There are some pretty bad people in Martial Arts out there that really do not deserve the titles that they have. The cool thing is, eventionally the word gets around and unless they change, they weed themselves out. Donna _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 07:46:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Check this site I got this site from someone, and took a look. Guy is mixing magic and martial arts for the ultimate self defense. I got a good laugh for the couple minutes I looked at the site. One thing that really interested me was that on the forum, there are a lot of negative messages toward the guy. The one that caught my attention was the one that said there was only one martial artist worse, ant that poster said the one worse was Scott Shaw, the author of a Hapkido book as well as others. Hmmmm Check it out for yourself, see what you think. http://streetcombat.8m.com/ Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "donna galster" Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 06:38:14 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Hackworth History You can find out more about my training background by going to > www.kmaia.qpg.com thanks for the fan mail. You may also check out > www.hackworth.com and www.hackworth.org > > ------------------------------ >> >The pictures in these web sites don't match, I'm confused. >gary pieratt You are right. Second and Third websites are not his. Not even sure if it is even members of his family. Cute baby in the third one though. (I love babies.) I like the first one though. I actually got to finally see Mr. Hackworth in a Martial Arts uniform doing something. Nicely put together website. Donna _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:53:34 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 In a message dated 12/8/00 4:41:15 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Real Taekwon-Do is a martial art started by General Choi and is practiced by the ITF. >> Do what? Hey there used to be an ATA school here, and they said their version of TKD was Real Taekwondo. I had a couple of friends go check it out, and they were playing dodge ball! Guess that's why they went out of business, people didn't want to pay monthly tuition to play dodge ball when they could do it for free in P.E. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:59:09 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #761 Craig, I agree with Ray, great post. Despite missing my attempt at humor. Also you are correct, I teach a modified version of taekwondo as I agree with most (not all !) of your assessment of TKD. Guess you could say I teach TKD +. My TKD students learn ground techniques, I was a Jr. high and high school wrestler, and also I put much more emphasis on boxing techniques. I would be interested in your comments on the Positive side of TKD. Please submit. gary pieratt In a message dated 12/8/00 4:41:15 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << > Wow, Craig, what a reply! but you seem to have missed my tongue in cheek > satire indicated by the :). But he made a lot of excellent points. IMHO, a great post! And the points were true for ANY style of TKD. Yes, I do TKD and did TSD, but I have augmented that with wrestling, Judo, Hapkido, Eskrima, muay Thai, tactical firearms training, etc. None of the TKD systems contain all that one needs. Few systems, if any, contain all that one needs, IMHO. Ray Terry >> New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:20:36 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #759 In a message dated 12/8/00 9:37:03 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have been studying for six and a half years and have learned more about martial arts from the littlest five year old white belt as well as the most knowledgeable master. Let's keep it all in perspective. >> Someone once said "I teach so that I may learn". gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:22:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Titles, life, and it's a Good Day to Die! I can remember not that long ago, when one was much more interested in training and the applicable use of the Martial Art skill that they were trying to perfect. The question was asked What's the reason for obtaining the title of Master, Grandmaster? Well, would it be fair to say that in order to obtain the skills required for the affore mentioned titles, one should have reached that level of understanding. With that being said, I feel that titles are important in all faucet of life. Would you go to a Dentist if he was not a graduate of an accredited College of Dentistry? How would you know if he did not have the Title Dr. of Dentistry attached to his name? Call it ironic but the average person will give respect to an individual that has Ph.D. attached to their and refer to them as Dr. because it is what they were taught to be the right thing to do. Our society has made Titles significant. Fire Captain, Police Chief, General of the Army, Secretary of Defense and the list goes on. Titles serve to distinguish and differenate between people. The way that they are used by the people in positions of authority is up to the individual and no two people will conduct themselves the same. All to often we attempt to glamorize Martial Arts training. Martial Arts training is now and will always be for Self Defense as well as Self preservation. If what you are doing is not geared towards these, than what you are doing is SPORT and you may be content with the coach player mentality. However even in sport Karate/Taekwondo there still exist the issue of titles(Coach). This was brought on by one of the post that stated it is a Good Day to Die. That saying has been heard by many over the years. I feel that people casually dismiss death prior to thinking about it and the fact that Death is permanent. It is never a good Day to Die. If you prepare yourself for death to the best of your ability, make peace with your maker and accept it as the inevitable, you have done your part. However when you are dead and move on to the next phase of your Journey all of the people you have touched will be left behind to morn and that to me is worst than the though of death itself. So the next time someone say's it is a Good Day to Die you may want to respond with it is a Better Day to be Alive. Life is a gift from God live it to the fullest and enjoy every moment that he allows you. Sorry for the length of this post, I have been fighting Cancer for the past 6 years and today is not a good day to Die. I just went through Surgery on the 27th of Nov. 00 to have 3 tumors removed and I'm so grateful to be here watching my youngest daughter train and enjoy what she is learning and to have her smile and say Dad, I love you. Thank you Mr. Ray and everyone on this list. Until next time, train to live and live to train. Dan ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:19:04 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: ED sell and dan signatures. how is it that you got a uscdka rank that did ot have ed sell's signature on it? last i heard, in order to get a kkw dan you first had to get a uscdka dan, which is in effect doubling the cost of the exam. as far as the ustu thread goes ray, i am not going to travel just to see if my opionion is accurate. as i stated quite clearly, this observation is based on the schools that i have seen. as far as jp and combat hapkido being a legitimate hapkido kwan. to m understanding if it is not recognized by the Korea Hapkido Federation, it is not a legitimate kwan. further, it was my understanding that the kido has no authority to issue rank for hapkido in korea, so why would it be any different here? i have met and trained with the likes of dae un yoon, khf masters demo team president and current bluehouse bodyguard. why would a blue house body guard settle for anything less than the best when his profession relies on it? he is not kido, he is khf. and if memory serves, according to ji han jae, he left the korea kido associatio, which is referred to as a martial arts organization by him, and founded the KHA which is now the KHF. Course that also ji han jae's account and i'm sure that that is up for dispute as well. thanks for your answers which can either be here or in private. Frank Clay migukyong@aol.com ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 07:24:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Mr. H's Information Mr. Hackworth, Thank you for the links to your information. May I contact you privately if I have any further questions? Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:27:09 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: tkd reform Wow. i did not realize there was so much difference in what we pay vs koreans. now to defend my ustu selling rank because it is a million dollar buisness to do so... there are 1.3 million practitioners of taekwondo in the us. (before you ask, i forget where i saw this stat, however for the sake or arguement, let it stand). now lets say that throuout the us, 300 000 practitioners become first dan. that comes out to be 21 000 000 dollars. if tkd is indeed so popular, 300 000 people is not an unreasonable number. I do know there are organizations out there who are attempting, with the help of some koreans, believe it or not, to put american tkd back into the hands of the americans instead of in the hands of koreans such as sang lee. i have nothing against koreans, but i do have a problem with koreans whio believe that we as americans are incompitant enough to run our own american ngb. In fact, and this is just a curisosity question, what is the difference between what the ustu is trying to do about issuing tkd certification and a monopoly? frank clay migukyong@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:37:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: michael rowe and the uscdka how did you verify this certificate? by looking at it? to my knowledge, the only way to verify a certificate is to take the dan number and submit it for promotion. if it gets accepted, the its good. if you know another way, i'd really l;ike to know for future reference. as far as ed sell and his chung do kwan 9th... considering he is hae man park's boy, if you will, i would not be too surprised about that cdk rank. frank migukyong@aol.com ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 07:40:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #762 Mr. Hackworth, I checked out the links, and they seem to either lead to other people who are not you, or they are very vague on your information. I would like a detailed information on you history. For example, if you go to my website (http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/mcenroe/928/MAS.htm) and you go to my personal history site, you get kind of a resume format. That is what I am looking for. If I was a potential student going to your dojang, what type of information would you give me about yourself, with the assumption that you are the one teaching the classes. I know of your affiliations and organizations (I read TKDTimes), however, I do not know about you. This is what I am trying to find out. Again, private or public email, it doesn't matter. I also want to make a comment about the "fan mail". I am hoping that you are only referring to emails that I have sent to this forum looking for your information. I am not the one who has been sending anything to you privately that may be harrassing. There are people on this list who can verify that I am the type that will not hide behind a fake email name. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:42:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: al cole and false claims dana, al cole is not examining anything for kukkiwon. in fact i have somewhere buried on my desk a cease and desist letter from the lawyers that represented kukkiwon during their logo infringement problems in the us, indicating he is not to make those claims again. now if memory serves, he is claiming to be an independent investigator, which means he needs to be licensed as an investigator. to date i have found no such license. further, according to the ustu itself, there is no such investigation, asnd since al cole is now the temporary head of the OTA he is not to be engaged in any controversies... just so you know. btw, my ustu information came from the ustu dan promotions office, not from al cole or anyone else... i believe the womans name was tammy. frank migukyong@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 8:15:57 PST Subject: the_dojang: TKD facts > Wow. i did not realize there was so much difference in what we pay vs > koreans. now to defend my ustu selling rank because it is a million > dollar buisness to do so... Umm, say what? > there are 1.3 million practitioners of taekwondo in the us. (before you > ask, i forget where i saw this stat, however for the sake or arguement, let > it stand). > > now lets say that throuout the us, 300 000 practitioners become first dan. > that comes out to be 21 000 000 dollars. if tkd is indeed so popular, > 300 000 people is not an unreasonable number. There are ~100,000 non-Korean people that have received a Kukkiwon 1st Dan, world-wide. What subset of that were in the USA I do not know. Then what subset of that number went through the USTU vs. going directly to the Kukkiwon? Yes, 300,000 is a completely unreasonable number. > I do know there are organizations out there who are attempting, with the > help of some koreans, believe it or not, to put american tkd back into the > hands of the americans instead of in the hands of koreans... As is the USTU. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 8:22:31 PST Subject: the_dojang: Final reminder... One last and final remember to folks to be respectful. We are not like other lists that like to blast others with unfounded claims and falsehoods. Got it? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 8:23:34 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #763 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.