From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #769 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 13 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 769 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 the_dojang: More thoughts on the pluses and minuses the_dojang: multiple attackers the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 the_dojang: Re: Kidohae & KHF the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 the_dojang: Fees the_dojang: RE:So lets take a look at this the_dojang: RE: KiDoHae: Getting Involved the_dojang: Re:multiple attackers the_dojang: RE: GM Han, Bong Soo the_dojang: Re: The Avengers, etc. the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 the_dojang: Re: Big Ken sez thanks to you Mr. CS the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 the_dojang: Mr. Spock's pressure points the_dojang: Re: TDK Times Street Fighting the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:49:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 In a message dated 12/12/00 9:31:31 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << BTW: I had forgotten about WILD,WILD,WEST >> still on the tube on Saturday mornings. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:13:36 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: More thoughts on the pluses and minuses Richard you wrote: "Because you practice onestyle does not mean you are ignorant of the rest." I agree...but that's not what I'm saying. "There are already far to many"jacks of all trades and masters of none" out there who threw a little ofthis and a little of that in and came out with basically nothing becausethey had not truly learned how to use any of it." Again, I'm not suggesting that a thousand techniques sampled are better than a few mastered. However, if being well-rounded and educated is wrong, then I don't want to be right. "Understanding what youhave learned in your own style and how to apply it against different stylesis what I believe is the important part of training." No, I just can't jive with that line. Let's look at the language you use..."your own style"..."different styles". Again, we're dealing with the paradigm of "style". I'll make the same challenge to you that I made to Andy...how did you become a particular "stylist" or affiliated with a certain "style"? I have no problem with people saying "I practice the fill-in-the-blank style". Nothing wrong with that. Now, when someone says, "Well, I'm a fill-in-the-blank stylist and I've come to the conclusion that in order to be an effective martial artist I've got to dedicate myself completely to fill-in-the-blank style to the exclusion of everything else". I'm sorry...I just can't agree with that, and I probably never will...but I respect your decision to live by that code if you so choose. I imagine that your perception is something like this...dedication to a single style will lead to mastery that in turn will lead to higher performance. My perception is that dedication to a single style is a self-imposed limitation that potentially prevents one from experiencing knowledge that can lead to profound personal development...and personal development supersedes any style, system, master, or guru. Making the decision that "I will only do THIS", is tantamount to saying "I will never do THAT". Why impose that limitation? Who taught you that? Sorry, but I like freedom of choice, and am confident that no single style, system, or master has a monopoly on the "truth". Good luck with your chosen path...I hope it leads you to whatever it is that you seek. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: TaoArt@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:34:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: multiple attackers Craig writes: << In regards to the issue of multiple attackers, the simple answer is never. IMHO, the ability to deal with multiple attackers is one of those merry myths that is perpetuated throughout the martial arts world. These days I have to be careful not to drink beverages when reading martial arts magazines. BTW, I thought Meghan's response to your question was pretty darned good. Kudos to her for highlighting the psychological dynamics, and motivating factors that go a long way in answering this type of question. _________________________________________________________ >> First, thank you for your kind words. I have significant training in self defense and plenty of real life experiences (a young scrapper with a HUGE chip on her shoulder and a mouth to match). I know first hand the importance of the psychological impact of self defense. It's refreshing to find more instructors including this vital aspect in their SD training. As for multiple assailants, I found (after *YEARS* of searching) the best program available. It is by Modern Warrior out of NYC. I have taken a few of their courses at conferences and was sincerely impressed by most of the stuff. They are a "science" based organization... everything is thoroughly tested before taught. And they have many undercover cops as students who test these tech's first hand. The program was developed by Phil Messina (the highest decorated NYPD cop in history) who used to be a cop decoy against gangs. It was his job to go out and get the gangs to attack him and fend them off til reinforcements arrived. He was a self proclaimed "terrible shot" and so often did so unarmed. His system uses concepts like "Cracking", "Screening" and "Redirecting". The idea is to swim within the chaos... don't try to take down one person as much as control the group as a whole by never being where they expect you. Of course, the best option is to run away. See Marc MacYoung's book "Street E&E" for some great pointers on how to run away effectively. (Plug: You can find his book through our website: www.guardup.com/amwa) But it *is* possible to become very good at fighting off multiple assailants when running away is not an option (I am a mom of a 2 and 6 year old... cant run away if they are there). Phil has been in an obscene number of fights where he was outnumbered. He has been in the hospital more times that he can remember. But he learned every lesson those wounds taught him. And so I steal tons of my material from him when it comes to this subject (with due credit, of course). But yeah... I know what you mean by the trash they push in Black Belt Magazine. I don't even bother to pick up the mag. It's filled with stuff that will get you killed. Meghan Gardner Guard Up, Inc. www.guardup.com www.guardup.com/martial_arts_htm/cd.htm Interactive Assault Prevention CDROM "Always carry love in your heart and a knife in your pocket." me ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:04:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 Piotr, I live in a suburb of NYC. Please e-mail me privately with more information. I might be able to suggest some dojangs. I have 1 or 2 in mind. Neal > > From: Piotr Bernat > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:49:30 +0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Schools in NY area > > A small question to those of you living or having friends in New York City; > a student of mine is going to visit his aunt in the U.S. next summer. He > will stay there for two months or so and he would also like to train there > and maybe enter a small tournament or two. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:06:04 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Kidohae & KHF Dear member, By my limited knowledge, I believe that there are 3 Hapkido organisations that are recognised by the Korean government. In addition to Kidohae and KHF, could any one tell me what is the third organisation, IHF? Sincerely, S. H. Wee ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:33:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 I am curious about what people think. What is the largest challenge if teaching children MA? I am especially curious to see the responses from different parts of this country and from other countries. Please feel free to e-mail me privately if you prefer. Thank you Neal Konecky __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:42:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Fees PSN Sims writes: > do you think that this is the kind of organization that would have listened > to you suggestions that were ignored by that other individual you mentioned > regarding testing. And most importantly, Do you think GM Yong would be able > to find time to look at my video tape? For a fee, I mean..." Dear Bruce: When you are on a roll, you ARE on a roll. It took two pages to print your essay. I must say that there is little else I can add to your assessment. Regarding history: According to some,I have a somewhat distorted view on history. Although it is one of my most enjoyed subjects, I no longer set much store by it. Over the years, I have simply come to understand that history is made one way, and written about in quite a different way. Accordingly, I now look at what a particular association really does for its members. If the service is good, and the fee is affordable, its good enough for me. My real concern (in my earlier post) was that the fees of some organizations are just too much for non US members. The exchange rate simply kills us. Other than that, I prefer to leave politics to the politicians. Thanks for your post Bruce, as always, it was enjoyable to read. While I am puting in the nickle, exchange rate for pennies, I'd like to wish everyone on the list the best of the Season and a very happy New Year. I'd also like to thank Ray for his enormous contribution to Korean arts. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to share ideas with our fellow practitioners Ray! Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association. ------------------------------ From: Victor Cushing Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:41:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE:So lets take a look at this To Bruce Sims....You have nailed the situation regarding competing Overall Hapkido organizations and some of their claims as well as the organization jumping practices of individuals that lead to rapid rank advancement (at least a neat collection of varying certificates) for some of our current Grandmasters. If only the used car market worked the same way. Then I could trade my 1985 Oldsmobile in on a 2000 Cadillac and only pay for a very fancy title certificate. Unfortunately this system would only deliver a picture of the Cadillac, not a real vehicle. As a licensed Private Detective, I am willing to offer you a reduced rate for armed executive protection services as it is my considered opinion that if you keep on writing this way, the people you offend ( or more likely their rabid followers) may send waves of trained killers to your house to rid the planet of your annoyingly accurate portrayals of the shenanigans being foisted on the martial arts community. Your one real hope in this is that they trained those paid killers. If you are unwilling to accept my generous offer, at least get a fake identity, a couple of pseudonyms, and a hotmail address so they cannot tell it is you. If on the other hand your continued research and investigation comes across any two-for-one sales on really neat looking Grandmaster certificates, please let me know, I love a bargain. And lastly....a prediction that the quantity of noise and vociferous defensiveness of the folks who will make the most of it are inversely related to their time on the mat. Those who really do, don't spend their time talking about how good they are, they just do. Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:04:34 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: KiDoHae: Getting Involved Dear Master Seo: Please accept my most sincere thanks and gratitude for taking the time and energy to become personally involved in the recent discussion regarding the NHA material published. Your contribution was a service to the KiDoHae members and demonstrated an attitude of caring and concern not only for the Korean arts and the members of your organization but also for the perception of the World KiDo Federation in the eyes of the MA world in general. GM Seos' efforts over the last decades are deserving of respect and recognition as would be any individual of his stature and accomplishment. However, I am taking this opportunity to publicly recognize your effort for another reason as well. In my relatively short (27 years) in the Martial arts I have had the opportunity to observe an interesting cat-and-mouse game between legitimate organizations and those lesser organizations seeking recognition, authentication and validation. Commonly the site of conflict between these two forces is the area of marketing-or most specifically the eye of the less informed consumer. While I appreciate the need for authority figures in the KiDoHan to maintain some level of decorum and deportment commensurate with their rank, it is my considered opinion that the good of the Hapkido practitioner in particular, and the Korean MA community in general, has not been well-served by silence. In addition, there remains in our Korean MA community individuals who continue to withhold support, and occasionally openly resist efforts to investigate, document and instruct concerning matters of Korean MA heritage and development. This combination of silence by legitimate authorities and avoidance of ones' own heritage have served to accelerate the pace at which the art of Hapkido has degraded in the last 20 years. To date the struggle to maintain the integrity and authenticity of Hapkido has fallen to a random few who have taken it upon themselves to make what arguments can be made on an instance by instance basis. It is my prayer that your comments posted in the last DD Net may herald some change in this condition and mark the beginning of a greater engagement of the KiDoHae. With its prestige, influence and heritage the KiDoHae could well serve the Hapkido practitioner not only as an advocate for integrity, and an agency for regulation but also as a source of historical accuracy and a resource for further study. Thank you again for your time and effort in this matter. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:27:02 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re:multiple attackers craig stovall writes >=20 >=20 In regards to the issue of multiple attackers, the simple answer is never.= =A0=20 IMHO, the ability to deal with multiple attackers is one of those merry=20 myths that is perpetuated throughout the martial arts world.=A0=20 3. I was once attacked by three people at a public park (two males and one=20 female), and I was the one that "won" the fight...much to their=20 embarrassment...but hey...THEY started it. - ------------------- I agree with Mr. Stovall.. fighting multiple attackers is a "virtual=20 impossibility" or at least odds are heavily against success. however=20 considering how difficult it is, I still hear quite a few stories like the=20 one above by Mr. Stovall about high quality martial artist fighting and=20 defeating multiple attackers. so perhaps the seeming contradiction is=20 related to the quality of the attackers, their mental state, and the=20 commitment of the people involved to winning. i.e. the one person being=20 attacked has a desperate mind set.. and the people doing the attack have an=20 over confident mindset or maybe each is hoping one of the others will get th= e=20 job done so they don't get hurt Practice in the school against multi attackers is excellent but not a very= =20 good example of what a real encounter would be like. In class everyone has=20= a=20 chance to think out a strategy and prepare them selves mentally. and you ar= e=20 fighting against people who will know how to work as a team...and at least i= n=20 my school the drill would not be done "full contact no rules" which totally= =20 takes away the single fighters chances, but allows my students and me to be=20 able to go to work the next day instead of the hospital. I guess my long winded point is.. for something I agree is impossible.. it= =20 sure seems to happen alot. btw.. I love this service Ray . keep up the good work. :-) ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:33:14 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: GM Han, Bong Soo "People should worry less about the history of Hapkido, and more about its future." Dear Patrick: Thank you for sharing that quotation from your weekend. GM Han has done much to futher the awareness of Hapkido in the minds' eye of the public if only for his book and his participation in the movies. I am writing this on the heels of my open letter to M Seo so I am on a bit of a roll. Still I want to target specifically what I consider to be telling weakness in the position that GM Han presents in his statement. I would start by perhaps characterizing what I have seen among people who are engaged in MA research less as worry than as a sincere concern for the integrity and authenticity of our art. In my short 16 years in Hapkido I have seen considerable degradation of the technique, philosophy, authority and heritage. As I write this numbers of TKD schools, MA emporiums and Self-defense clinics include "Hapkido" along with "Kung Fu' (sic), Judo, Escrima and Gracie JJ on its' plate glass window. Many Hapkido practitioners' have waited for the leadership of our art to make their voices heard and in the silence have elected to defend what we could from the claims and charges of others in the MA community. Nor do I think that we Hapkido practitioners are well-served by letting the "past bury the past". Unlike many endeavors in this modern world, the very nature of Hapkido practice is a continuing balancing act between reverence for our heritage and regard for the future. The research that I do, for instance, remains a continuing sign of respect to those teachings I received from GM Myung rather than any effort to embarrass or disrespect the Hapkido community by revealing shortcomings that perhaps we all might share. Other researchers continue to press for clarity regarding lineage, stylistic or biomechanical comparisons, liaisons with our MA cousins in the Japanese and Chinese arts and much more. My research had its original start in 1990 and has developed into a project hopefully to produce a progressive 10 volume set. In all of that time and effort I have yet to meet a single individual in MA research whose efforts were small-minded or whose intentions were mean-spirited. On the contrary I have repeatedly met people who have sacrificed their personal time and resources to expand our awareness of the art and raise its sophistication. Finally, I have no way of seeing into another mans' heart so I must concede to you that GM Hans' comment was made with the best of intentions. I will share with you, however, that an individual of GM Hans' stature could do much to expand research efforts. M Seos' recent contribution was sorely needed by a community which operates in the shadow and silence of its leadership. My hope is that GM Han may reconsider his position and contribute his ample skill, knowledge and influence to the research efforts. The need for greater involvement by the Hapkido leadership as well as increased dialogue between US and Korean nationals regarding our art has been long standing and deserves attention. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Diane Goodman" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:10:04 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The Avengers, etc. Emma Peel was the one who inspired me to begin studying martial arts in the first place. To continue the history of the show, after Diana Rigg left, she was replaced by Linda Thorson as (Miss) Tara King, who did seem to know some martial arts, but would mostly just whine for Steed and whack a bad guy on the head with her purse (not that it wasn't effective, but ... ). And Harrison Ford's character in Star Wars is Han (not Hans) Solo. Carry on - Diane ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:42:02 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 I'm not sure who posted to Susan and Donna, concerning Spock, but that was great, thank you it was great to start my day with a little humor. Thank's Dan ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:10:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Big Ken sez thanks to you Mr. CS - --Mr. Stovall refreshingly wrote: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:15:08 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: You mean I'm NOT Big Ken?!?!Ken, Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. In addition to those, you wrote: "You outline a keen insight into my readings and thoughts. Tony Blauer, Professor James, et al., " I'm not quite certain who you're referring to when you make mention of "Professor James", unless of course you are referring to David James and the Vee Jitsu Te system. If so, I'm not overly familiar with his work, but have read some very good reviews about his video "Vee Jitsu Te for the Street". Of course, most will probably be more familiar with Mr. James' instructor, Florendo Visitacion...truly an innovator in the world of martial arts. I'm confident his sound tutelage is reflected in the works and abilities of Mr. James.I'll keep a sharp eye out for those bamboo poles you mentioned:)> Response: Professor David James is the heir apparent to the late Florendo Visitacion (Professor Visitacion's daughter is on the New York Supreme Court as a respected judge). On a recommendation I purchased one of Professor James' videos. I was so impressed that I ultimately purchased the remainder of his series. Highly recommended to all martial artists and practitioners. My comments were made as an appreciation that it takes a little moxy to criticize or offer an altering opinion about various martial arts "styles". On another martial arts forum, I took the liberty of posting part of your analysis. One reader alleged that I am you ? Not in name, but in similar thought process, i.e., we share similar thoughts on training for a specific environment. I have my roots in Hapkido and Kuk Sool Won. But within the last several years I have looked, even if superficially, at other ideas, methodologies, and opinions. Yes, you have to sift the sense from the nonsense. Yes, there are many individuals out there who are purely into marketing an easy fix or product. Nevertheless, there are innovators out there who add a "modern" realism to what I believe is sometimes an important point--you incorporate the environment that you are in to add to your training. This is not to dispel the importance of tradition and lineage. I believe that is important for foundations and a sense of where your training emanates from. But, I also believe you should incorporate those particular ideas that add to your training. Like you mentioned, I believe a good school should consider some boxing skills and drills, some fully padded training, scenarios, and discussions on what to expect in a Western society that is vastly unique and different than many Asian societies. I have limited time in life to get caught up in the myriad of associations, political machinations, and which GM is doing such and such at the next seance. Hence, I may understand why certain individuals enjoy that. I also respect their right to pursue those endeavors. In sum, I am just a meat and potatoes kind a guy. An old country guy from the big city. Son of a sharecropper working the fields of Queens. I lean more toward trying to survive the day to day kind of stuff. I leave the knife and fork training idealogies to those who know more than me. I like what works on the modern day streets to protect my family and me. Along with a greasy Philly Cheesesteak and a nice Seltzer water I am happy. McD... _____________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:19:31 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #768 >From: "donna galster" >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:06:14 -0600 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #766 > >Chris, perhaps the vulcan neck pinch is not a pressure point technique, but >pressure points is a martial arts skill to learn. Every kick, block, punch >has a target. Some more deadly than others if you apply it to the right >area. I do not know much about pressure points, but I am sure a few others >on this list could educate you on that area and agree that pressure points >is a part of martial arts. > >Donna Donna, I quite agree that pressure point techniques are part of the martial arts. If you reread my posting I was in no way implying that they weren't. I have spent fourteen years studying Taekwon-Do (not a long time compared to some, but nearly half of my life), and this includes the area of attacking tools and their relation to targets on the human body. I have also been blessed with an instructor that has taught me pressure point manipulations (they are, after all, part of Taekwon-Do), a former kung fu Sifu that did likewise, and have even attended a seminar with George Dillman and read some of his books. What I was trying to convey in my last post was a tongue-in-cheek critique of an argument going on in the digest about how some Taekwon-Do is "real" and some is not and that to be proficient in self-defense one has to study "real" self-defense, not Martial Arts. No offense was meant. Taekwon, Chris > > >From: "Christopher Spiller" > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:23:03 -0000 > >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Vintage Star Trek MA > > > >I did NOT mention mr. Spock's Vulcan Grip because that's not an example >of a > >REAL Martial Art skill. See, it wasn't gained after Mr. Spok trained for > >years in a MA style that was 1,000's of years old only to discover it was >a > >scant 50 years old and had no real combat applications so he decided to > >cross train in other MA's (that would seem to have very similar problems) >to > >come up with the best techniques against any opponent, anywhere, any >time. > >Nope, it's just a result of him being a Vulcan (and only 1/2 a Vulcan at > >that!). If that Vulcan grip had been a REAL Martial Art skill, I surely > >would have included it ;-). _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:21:07 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Mr. Spock's pressure points >From: "donna galster" >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:06:14 -0600 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #766 > >Chris, perhaps the vulcan neck pinch is not a pressure point technique, but >pressure points is a martial arts skill to learn. Every kick, block, punch >has a target. Some more deadly than others if you apply it to the right >area. I do not know much about pressure points, but I am sure a few others >on this list could educate you on that area and agree that pressure points >is a part of martial arts. > >Donna Donna, I quite agree that pressure point techniques are part of the martial arts. If you reread my posting I was in no way implying that they weren't. I have spent fourteen years practicing and studying Taekwon-Do (not a long time compared to some, but nearly half of my life), and this includes the area of attacking tools and their relation to targets on the human body. I have also been blessed with an instructor that has taught me pressure point manipulations (they are, after all, part of Taekwon-Do), a former kung fu Sifu that did likewise, and have even attended a seminar with George Dillman and read some of his books. What I was trying to convey in my last post was a tongue-in-cheek critique of an argument going on in the digest about how some Taekwon-Do is "real" and some is not and that to be proficient in self-defense one has to study "real" self-defense, not Martial Arts. No offense was meant. Taekwon, Chris > > >From: "Christopher Spiller" > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:23:03 -0000 > >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Vintage Star Trek MA > > > >I did NOT mention mr. Spock's Vulcan Grip because that's not an example >of a > >REAL Martial Art skill. See, it wasn't gained after Mr. Spok trained for > >years in a MA style that was 1,000's of years old only to discover it was >a > >scant 50 years old and had no real combat applications so he decided to > >cross train in other MA's (that would seem to have very similar problems) >to > >come up with the best techniques against any opponent, anywhere, any >time. > >Nope, it's just a result of him being a Vulcan (and only 1/2 a Vulcan at > >that!). If that Vulcan grip had been a REAL Martial Art skill, I surely > >would have included it ;-). _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:10:06 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: TDK Times Street Fighting The November Issue of TKDTimes has an an interesting artical on street fighting. People on the list may find it a good read. John Murphy A-3-756 TKD USTF/ITF ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:34:04 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #769 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.