From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #771 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 14 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 771 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #769 the_dojang: RE: KISS the_dojang: Master Pak... the_dojang: Re: More thoughts on the pluses and minuses the_dojang: Re: KISS the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #770 the_dojang: Re: Teaching Children the_dojang: offline the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:48:22 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #769 Dear Rudy and Vic: Thanks for the kudo-s. Think about how fortunate we are to have this venue for sharing our positions! Twenty years ago we couldn't have done this and probably would have known each other even existed (well, I would have known about YOU, Vic---but I wouldn't have known Rudy.) Before we start patting each other on the back, though, there is still the question of what we are to do about things. OK. So we have this great method of communication and we have a serious problem with not getting the bang-for-the-buck we ought out of these organizations. In turn, that does not stop the organizations from springing up like mushrooms. .As much as I appreciate the offer of personal protection, Vic, I honestly don't think that's a problem, because the issue is not the individuals. I know that sounds like b*******, but work with me on this one, 'kay? True enough a person comes along and starts an organization, shaping it in his own image and reflecting his own values. OK, now suppose that person passes away. Like a car set in motion, the organization continues in the path it was last pointed until acted upon by other forces, yes? In this way, despite the temptation to beat-up on the clown that started it all, it's the organization that needs to be impacted. I know the philosophy of "kill the head and the snake dies" but in this case the body of the snake is not completely beholding to the head. People of like philosophy have been attracted to such organizations for a reason and pressure needs to be applied all up and down the snake-not to kill it but to change it. The larger, more influential organizations, may have an advantage from a commercial standpoint but the change can start anywhere with members challenging their leadership to provide greater support, opportunities and benefits for membership. There is even a "domino effect" as members note other organizations which offer more, and members begin to question why THEIR organization does not offer these benefits. Hell, I can't even remember the last time I got a call or a letter from my organization wanting to know how they could help me do things better (though I did get a reprimand of sorts from the WKF sometime back for my comments regarding the ICHF.) On the other hand I received a call from GM JR West yesterday, out of the blue, just confirming my upcoming visit in February to the International Hapkido Seminar (gonna be over 300 practitioners at this one!) and I am not even a member of his Org! Go figure. What do you think was going through my mind after that phone call, ne? I love the research and I love the art. From an organizational standpoint, though, the question remains, and should be... "What have you done for me lately?" best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:57:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: KISS <> Let's keep this simple and straightforward shall we. Yes you can. You can verify that any dan number is for a proper person and the rank they are credentialed for. This is not an ivasion of privacy this is a following and checking of credentials. If you call or write to the kukkiwon and as to verify that Michael P. Rowe Kukkiwon Number (03) 5904618 is certified as a 4th Dan they will after some time (it is not instant) verify that one Michael P. Rowe is in their databanks as being certified as a 4th Dan with the number (03) 5904618. This is not an invasion of privacy. No other information is given. Now granted if this was a bogus credential lets say I copied it and put my name on it. Then the response would be that Michael Rowe is not associated with certificate number (03) 5904618 and is not a 4th Dan. Simple and not an invasian of privacy. Granted you should only be doing this if you have a legit need to know - such as you are applying to study at my school. Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:15:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Master Pak... David Beck wrote: Sometimes I'm amazed at how much of an effect Master Pak has had on the growth of martial arts through the US. But then I think of how much of a difference he made in my life (my first MA training was with him at ISU back in '83). CPR training, cross-training seminars, free rape seminars, scholarships for deserving people who happen to be martial artists, etc; Master Pak is the perfect example as far as leadership and service of upper rank. For anyone who doesn't know, Master Pak has taught TKD, HKD, and Judo at Iowa State University since back in the 70's ('73?). He's been President of the National Collegate Taekwondo Association many times, and taught perhaps 15,000 students. - ------------------------------------------- I've never met him personally. However, I heard about his book "Taekwondo" from a friend, and wrote him and ordered a copy. I first got the info from: http://hometown.aol.com/ladytkd/plug.htm (LadyTkd--you still a member of this list?) ...so I wrote Master Pak, and sent the money. Not only did I get the book back from him, he called me up one night to make sure I had received it, and to talk about martial arts in general. Considering I was in a different state and he had never heard of me before, I was impressed. Very polite, VERY knowledgeable gentleman. I'll also note the book is an excellent reference work. Thomas - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/ "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:46:58 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: More thoughts on the pluses and minuses Craig you stated: > No, I just can't jive with that line. Let's look at the language you > use..."your own style"..."different styles". Again, we're dealing with the > paradigm of "style". I'll make the same challenge to you that I made to > Andy...how did you become a particular "stylist" or affiliated with a > certain "style"? I have no problem with people saying "I practice the > fill-in-the-blank style". Nothing wrong with that. Now, when someone says, > "Well, I'm a fill-in-the-blank stylist and I've come to the conclusion that > in order to be an effective martial artist I've got to dedicate myself > completely to fill-in-the-blank style to the exclusion of everything else". > I'm sorry...I just can't agree with that, and I probably never will...but I > respect your decision to live by that code if you so choose. I imagine that > your perception is something like this...dedication to a single style will > lead to mastery that in turn will lead to higher performance. My perception > is that dedication to a single style is a self-imposed limitation that > potentially prevents one from experiencing knowledge that can lead to > profound personal development...and personal development supersedes any > style, system, master, or guru. > > Making the decision that "I will only do THIS", is tantamount to saying "I > will never do THAT". Why impose that limitation? Who taught you that? > Sorry, but I like freedom of choice, and am confident that no single style, > system, or master has a monopoly on the "truth". Good luck with your chosen > path...I hope it leads you to whatever it is that you seek. After I had stated: > "Understanding what you have learned in your own style and how to apply it > against different styles is what I believe is the important part of > training." So let me understand you correctly. Never understand what you have already learned, it is most certainly useless compared to the latest greatest trend to hit the martial arts seen. I hate to point out the obvious but if you don't understand what you have and how it may be used then how do you possibly ever even know the strengths and weaknesses it has or for that matter what it is even capable of. Which would most likely be an indication of something you might need. As for "style", most "styles" have a underlying set of principles as well as biomechanics that are structured in such a way as to allow the different areas of the "style" to be smoothly integrated. Notice the terms biomechanics and principles they are the key terms here. I have many students that have come from different styles and I practice with a number of different "stylist" in my area. Each style definitely contains a set of principles and biomechanics that are unique in one way or another and they do not always work well together if combined. It is the understanding and application of the principles and biomechanics of a "style" that make you a stylist. In broad terms - how do I apply a throw against a kicker, a joint lock against a boxer, a kick or strike against a grappler, etc using what I have already learned so that it is both effective and flexible. Maybe you have no need to understand what you are doing and why, but I believe many of us do. Sincerely, Richard Zaruba ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:44:02 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: KISS >>hmmm..... now that sounds like a federal law suit >>waiting to happen unless, that call is made from >>outside the US. not that i'm too familiar with Korean >>rights, but considering they are a democratic nation, >>what about the expectation to privation? do they not >>have this? Frank, There is nothing wrong with this at all. And even in America, privacy is not a "right" It has been found in some cases in the prenumbras of the constitution, but it is not a given "right." Some states, such as MT, have a stronger right to privacy in their state constitutions. Alain ------------------------------ From: Steve Seo Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:49:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #770 Frank, I apologizes for refering to you by your first name, but you did not leave a surname or any title. That being said I take great offense to the tone and inflammatory nature of your comments directed directly at me on the digest. If you have a problem with what I have said, I would much rather discuss this with you in a private email, or better yet in person. It is unfortunate that you have used this medium to make your comments, but I now feel obliged to return the favor. Really Frank, "papa." Are you trying to belittle my attempt to clear the air about about the Kidohae and its role in martial arts. I find your condecensions very insulting. I grew up in the United States, attended the University of California at Berkeley, and am well aware of the laws of this land. First ammendment rights are a wonderful privilege we have as Americans. Free speach and freedom of expression are what fosters a true deomcracy and makes living in America wonderful. That being said, when people blatantly lie, and when their comments have a deleterious effect on another persons livelihood, it now goes beyond the realm of free speach and are grounds for legal action. I don't object to an individuals musings about the state of Hapkido and its history. But when someone tries to discredit the very charter of our organization, the very legal basis that the Kidohae was founded on in 1963, don't you think thats grounds for a legal action? I apologize to Mr. Terry that this has become a personal issue. I know you work hard to keep this list positive and about real martial arts issues. I assure you that my disagreement with Frank will be kept as private matter as long as Frank does as well. On a general note to all martial artists. I made this point before, but I call on everyone in martial arts to question and seek out the truth. But we must temper this with the wisdom and prudence that makes us all enlightened individuals. Asking questions is fine, making blanket statements that hurt others, without proof, is not. Steve Seo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:55:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teaching Children In a message dated 12/14/00 6:41:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am curious about what people think. What is the largest challenge if > teaching children MA? I am especially curious to see the responses from > different parts of this country and from other countries. Please feel free > to e-mail me privately if you prefer. >> When I opened my school in 1995 I thought I would make it easier for kids by not having so much for them to remember ... so I limited myself on what to train them in. Wrong ! They got bored real fast ... and so did I. They now do forms, sparring (standing up and on the ground), strong basics in stances and blocks, self defense and weapons. They can't seem to get enough. It was just a matter of setting down and going over what each belt rank should cover. Then going up a step or two with each progressive belt level. Took me a long time to develop it to where it is now ... but we are comfortable and stable in what we are accomplishing here for the kids. At each belt level they are allowed (required) to do something more exciting in the arts than they did in the previous rank. It gives them something to look forward to ... to strive for. We hand out stars for good report cards ... we give white stripes on the belt for memorizing 4 words and their short definitions (commitment, pride, courteous, sincere) ... a yellow stripe for memorizing the Student Principles and School Rules ... and they get a green stripe for every 4 To Do Lists they turn in from home telling us how they do outside our school. They get blue stripes for the forms that they know (one for each belt level). These stripes are required in order for them to go up in rank. Giving them something visual like this really makes them want to do it ... and the pride and self confidence it gives them is worth a little bit of extra paperwork for me. I had a camoflage belt embroidered in gold writing to say "Student of the Week" on one side ... and the name of the school on the other ... and I award it to one person a week and they get to come forward and help warm up the class and be a role model for everyone for a week. They also get a small certificate indicating that they are Student of the Week. I had a red/white/blue belt made up with gold embroidery on it saying "Student of the Month" and I award that to one person a month ... they get a beautiful certificate in an elegant folder and their name engraved on our Student of the Month yearly plaque. They also get to come forward and help warm up the class and be a role model for others for the month. We don't do tournaments in our school so that was out ... so I make sure that each month I do something to keep their interest in the arts ... Kung Fu Movie Night, Karate Olympics Week, Board Breaking Day, Halloween Bash, Christmas Ball, etc. But don't overlook the parents ... they are an important part of this ! You have to educate them, too. And that takes alot of patience .... :-) Every couple of months I send out postcards to the students telling what a good job I think they are doing in classes ... indicating their strengths and to keep up the good work. At their belt tests we make it enjoyable ... board breaking is for only Green Belts and above and if the board doesn't break ... no biggee ... it is the trying that counts ... not the broken board. Since there is no big deal about the board breaking part of the test ... no one has "never" broken a board here ... they consider that the fun part of the test and are excited and eager for it to come up. I also have a separate class in board breaking so I can really teach them all the tricks on how to do it. The kids know how to set them up and put the boards down when it comes to their turn because they have been educated in it and they are very confident in this area. We don't do the games thing at the end of each class because I don't believe martial arts is a game ... but every once in a while we may do so ... with kids you have to do something exciting every once in a while ... not all the time or they become used to it and it is boring. And martial arts is not a game ... you have to let them know that it isn't ... so don't treat it as such by the way you train them. But don't train them to be little killers, either ... LOL ! This is just a sample of what we do here ... there is scads more ... but I won't take up your time and space as some are not interested and some of this others are probably doing every day anyways. Just take your time ... sprinkle it with love and patience ... and get to know them. Then you can teach them. Kids are eager to learn ... they are like sponges ... and if you ever want to get their attention ... start whispering. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:29:15 PST Subject: the_dojang: offline > Frank, > > I apologizes for refering to you by your first > name, but you did not leave a surname or any title. > That being said I take great offense to the tone > and inflammatory nature of your comments directed > directly at me on the digest. If you have a problem > with what I have said, I would much rather discuss > this with you in a private email, or better yet in > person. It is unfortunate that you have used this > medium to make your comments, but I now feel obliged > to return the favor. Ok guys, and others. The time is now to take this offline. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:31:32 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #771 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.