From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #782 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 19 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 782 In this issue: the_dojang: Multiple attackers the_dojang: New 'poomsae' the_dojang: Patches and such Re: the_dojang: New 'poomsae' the_dojang: Real TKD for the street? the_dojang: Re: Patches and such the_dojang: Legs Collapsing? Re: the_dojang: Real TKD for the street? the_dojang: Re: Comments on groundfighting the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:53:05 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Multiple attackers >Any self defense system that doesn't include spending at least 30% clinch >fighting and groundfighting is built upon fantasy.< IMHO any self defense system that doesn't include 91.3% chatting your way our of trouble, 3.2% punching, 1.7% kicking, 6.9% clinch fighting and 4.7% ground fighting is built on fantasy too! :) Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:00:43 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: New 'poomsae' Dear all, There was a curious report in today's Korea Times. There was a brief photo article announcing a new 'poomsae' called Hungmu. It was reported that it 'incorporates Korean traditional dance and the ancient martial art Taekkyon.' Anyone have any more information? Andrew ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:27:38 Subject: the_dojang: Patches and such Hi. I get a frustrating kick out of this, so I thought I'd throw out one of my pet peeves and see what others think. It has to do with black belts who one, don't know what the patches they are wearing say or mean [or maybe just don't care], or two, associations advertising a style when their logo or flags denote another style. I'll use Tang Soo Do & Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan as an example. I was at an open tournament recently and there were numerous black belts walking around with Moo Duk Kwan patches. In reading their patches [Chinese for TSD MDK] and asking them where they trained in Tang Soo Do, they'd look at me like I was crazy and inform me [sometimes quite severely] that they were "Taekwondo stylists--NOT Tang Soo Do." Oops, silly me! I really never want to point out that their patches, prominently displayed on their chests, say different. Visiting webs sites is the same thing. Taekwondo advertising with TSD logos, or even flipping through the current TKD Times, a TSD organization with a Taekwondo flag behind the GM (in Hangul). Well, I know the old Kwan materials are really quite similar between TSD and TKD, and I suppose it really should not annoy me since it obviously does not annoy them, BUT - - I still find something this basic as bothersome. I know patches seem superficial, but if you do not care about the accuracy on your most prominent and sometimes only advertising logo, how accurate is what you are being taught and told on points of history and philosophy? Do these people know the difference between Chinese and Hangul? Do they care? I guess it just seems to me to be symptomatic of intellectual laziness. What do you think? Would "Eat at Won's" in Chinese be worse?! :.) Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:01:47 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: New 'poomsae' > There was a curious report in today's Korea Times. There was a brief > photo article announcing a new 'poomsae' called Hungmu. It was reported > that it 'incorporates Korean traditional dance and the ancient martial > art Taekkyon.' > > Anyone have any more information? Not me... Could you tell.?. Was it a new series of poomse or just one single poomse? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "David Salt" Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:21:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Real TKD for the street? Ten years ago I wanted to learn how to box. Unfortunatley, the only boxing schools in my area were in inner city areas, and were not interested in just teaching the average person in their 30's how to defend themselves. These schools wanted to train champions for the ring. But I did find a kickboxing about 30 minutes away. In just a few short months I learned more than I ever got in my TKD classes earlier in life. I learned how to duck-bob-and-weave, develope my stomach to take punches, and be able to do combinations for the 3 minute amature round requirement. As a former TKD practitioner, I thought that I could handle anything but I was wrong. As it turns out, most TKD people who want to go into the ring must unlearn these TKD moves to survive. The wide stances, the linear punches, the inability to move the upper body around, etc, will get you killed in the ring. But these kickboxers do lack grappling skills!!! But I dont think that it really matter much. For if these guys went to the ground, they would still be punching and kicking...and isnt that street fighting? And what is street fightning anyway? Most people on the street no longer have boxing training--boxing is a dying art, there are very few boxing schools today. In fact I bet you that boxing schools, if considered a martial art, would only 1% of the martial art schools out there. So you are going to find people out there who think that the are tough and really arent mostly. So I feel that although TKD is not the best martial art, compared to boxing-kickboxing, it still is legitmate for self defense...just dont fight a boxer (boxers know how to fight!!!). David headbanger@mindspring.com ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:04:34 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Patches and such Oops, my memory is going, that TKD MDK flag is actually in Chinese, not Korean. So much for my own laziness!!:.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:28:46 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Legs Collapsing? A good while back, someone (I believe a lady) had posted a story about her legs collapsing during sparring sessions. She had asked some advice about this problem, and I believe she had received some feedback. I was just wondering whether or not that person would give us an update as to whether or not this problem had been remedied. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:13:36 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Real TKD for the street? > As a former TKD practitioner, I thought that I could handle anything ... Umm, well if that is the case, I'd say you had a pretty poor TKD instructor. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:48:09 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Comments on groundfighting >>I urge readers to look into arts like BJJ, Kosen >>Judo, and Catch-As-Catch-Can Wrestling that transmit >>the skills needed to dominate and control the >>opponent once the fight hits the ground. >>I'm sorry if my comments offend, but I have to speak >>my mind. No offense taken, and I'm glad you entered the forum with some very good points. I'm in no way against learning a grappling art. I first started in Judo back in 1982. I just don't like some of the claims that groundfighting is the ultimate street art, etc. etc. (When we all know there really is no ultimate self-defense art.) Sure, some arts have more of a street focus, but the fact is it is more often the person than the style. I've seen people from all sorts of styles, including no formal MA training at all that could handle just about any street situation, and I've seen people from all sorts of styles that couldn't. I just think that in the last few years, with the BJJ craze, a lot of talk has been thrown around about how effective ground fighting is for the street. I disagree, especially when you are outnumbered. Some very good points were made about knowing how to ground fight so you can get back up. That is true. But a person that knows no formal "holds" or counters can do fairly well if they go "Fluffy doesn't want a bath" on the guy. What I mean by this is, think of a cat named fluffy and how she might react as you try to submerge her in the tub. How easy will she be to hold on to. That's my idea of kicking, scratching, maiming and anything else I can do to get away. Go "fluffy!" Yes, knowing some counters and ground techniques can help, but so can just going balistic. Ever try to hold a person that is just going crazy? Often much more difficult than the person who is trying a known counter to your technique. So, I do agree that ground fighting is important. I will continue to train that way, learning more, and having fun doing it. I just want to point out that it is not the be all and end all of fighting, and in fact if you are out numbered it can be a disadvantage if you are trying to control someone on the ground and his friends decide to get involved. So learn some ground fighting, practice it so you can use it, and then just remember that if you hit the ground in the street, use it to get back up as quick as possible, since the ground is not a place to be.. Thanks for some interesting comments and allowing me to get away from my tests and papers for a few minutes. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:47:47 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #782 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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