From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #796 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 25 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 796 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Dan bong forms ? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #794 the_dojang: It's that time of the year the_dojang: Season`s greetings the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #795 the_dojang: Re: Chuck Norris the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #794 the_dojang: modern TKD the_dojang: Difference betwen sparring, fighting and combat the_dojang: Chuck Norris and Tang Soo Do the_dojang: Holiday Greetings and Introduction the_dojang: missing ?? the_dojang: Martial Musings, Robert W. Smith the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~999 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: barrel Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:08:27 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dan bong forms ? > These dan bong forms sound interesting. Are there mpegs of them anywhere > on the web? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Not that I know... I will try to get some more information on them and get back to you. Barrel ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:28:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #794 >------------------------------ >From: MissIllona@aol.com >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Working out during the holidays * * * snip * * * >On to another subject ..................................... > >How many of you are not interrupting your training this year just because >it >is the holidays? Have the schools you are going to been full, half empty, >or >just shut down for the holidays? What do you do if your school is shut >down >and you want to work out really bad ? Do you go to a friend's house and >workout with them ? > >Illona >------------------------------ Our local dojang will only be closed on the actual days of Xmas and New Year's Day. (And we have to watch the weather, too, out here in the middle of Iowa. We've been getting snow dumped on us with -50 degree wind chills.) Other than that, we will be open. I believe our main school is closed at least on Saturday of each week and I don't have any idea about the Tuesday-Friday of next week. Our classes will almost definitely be smaller than normal, but I think we should still have a fair number of students. I know for some of them, coming to class and working out is a good way to relieve some of the holiday stress and I wouldn't want to deprive them of that opportunity. :) I know I'm spoiled because I have a key to the dojang (and I set the policy on when there is class and when there isn't), but I could work out at home almost as easily. Do you not have that option? Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:44:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: It's that time of the year Best wishes to Mr. Terry and everyone on the list for a Merry Christmas and a prosperous 2001! ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:04:13 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Season`s greetings I just would like to say Merry Christmas to all of you - it`s great to send wishes to all the people around the world I never met, but I know them somehow. I can see you all around the Christmas tree ;) Best regards from Poland - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:15:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #795 Whoop whoop whoop! Suspected troll at six o'clock! - --- begin quoted message --- From: OMANOVIC123@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:19:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #794 Can anyone tell me all the counter attack technique since I need only that for my second dan next week thank you .... Erin - --- end quoted message --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin www.wuma.com sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:45:52 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Chuck Norris > Grandmaster Shin, Jae Chul moved to the U.S.A. in 1968.... I am told with > the blessings of Do Ju Nim Hwang Kee as a U.S. representative of the Moo > Duk Kwan. > So, If Norris earned his Cho Dan between 1958 and 1967, Master Shin was > his instructor, as Mr. Norris states in his book, and Master Shin would > have been an instructor representing DJN Hwang Kee's TSDMDK. Therefore it > is correct to say Shin, Jae Chul is Norris' instructor, and claiming Hwang > Kee is his instructor would not be incorrect.. "Tae Kwon Do Times", March 1988, interview with GM Shin, Jae Chul, page 63: "TKDT: I suppose its a well-known fact that Chuck Norris was your student in Korea. SHIN: Chuck Norris was an excellent student who showed promise and talent from the beginning. Best of all, he had an excellent mental attitude. I was directly involved with Chuck in a teacher-student relationship through his ranking as third degree black belt." Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:56:24 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #794 - ------------------------------ From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:33:13 EST Subject: the_dojang: fighting et al Christmas greetings to you all, There has been a lot of talk here regarding 'real fighting'. Some of you seem to be on the right track, and some of you seem to be missing the point and turning it into a martial arts suck/are the best war. We practice everyday (right?) kicking, punching, throwing and joint locking. All the moves are done in the dojang against willing participants who know the moves, and, most of the time, are able to adapt to them to avoid serious injury. This is a good thing. It allows practice of technique that WILL work in fights, but in many cases, important elements are left out. I have been in a number of fights. Grade school rockem-sockems, high school idiot contests, scraps in bars, and now, in law enforcement situations. When I was a lowly greenbelt in karate in 7th grade, I got my lights punched out by a boxer. I learned boxing. In high school, got embarrased in a stand up clinch. I learned Jujitsu. I have been in 1 on 1, 2 on 1, 3 on 1, and a group punchfest. I have been face to face and ambushed. I have avoided 20 times more than I have been in. In all the fights, well, except one, I was not the one who started the fight...hey, whiskey does that. The important thing to know is that fights do not start as the first punch is thrown. The fight starts before that, when one of the participants starts to think about bashing the other. Very few dojang practice the 'lead-up' to the fight, verbal de-escalation, stress control etc. Very few practice fighting without a list of rules, or practice in a nice clean, open, well lit area. I have read on this list, people who believe that you will react how you have been trained...for the most part yes, that is correct. If you have trained in pre-fight indicators, verbal & physical cues, de-escalation, avoidance, fear control, and cut-to-the-chase-full-contact-as real as possible-fights....then kudos to you...you should react how you have been trained. If you only practice non-contact, or rules-sparring, you might be suprised with the violent dynamics of a real encounter. Suprise is bad. You CANNOT be suprised in a real fight. Suprises: Getting hit bare fist to bare face, kick to the gonads(ouch), sudden fear, freeze-up, attackers bad breath, their weird skill/strengh, ineffective punches/kicks, etc...the list can go on. Now, if you don't practice this, but only do regular sparring, one-steps etc. you can still be ok! The skills you know are VERY effective, some more than others, but nonetheless effective. A well placed side kick, or throw does wonders. All the stuff we practice was designed for use against humans, so there is a good chance that if you are fighting a human, it will work...although, I have bumped into some Meth-heads that did not seem very human. Many times, we miss the pre-fight indicators. That means we are not mentally prepared for the fight...but the other guy is...playing catch-up in a fight is not good...but we have advanced martial training to help us close that reactionary gap, so that our hard earned skills can be effective. If you train right, you will react properly to the threat, and apply your training. A while back, I wrote in regarding a young girl who was getting her Blackbelt at a fellow instructors school. He asked me to work on her 'fighting' ability before the test. Young, fit, strong, fast, smart, 6 years mixed MA/TKD training....yet she failed when faced with a basic scenario. She was suprised by the aggression, fear and anger, and was unable to apply her training. She threw unbalanced kicks and a great non-contact palm to my face, and was easily taken down the first time out. Not to say that everyone reacts the same, but there are things here we can learn from. It took 2 sessions with her before she was able to bash and crash and kick my a**. She had all the technique training needed, but just needed a small dose of reality to give her the edge. On test day, she beat the tar outta me, and when I lost my headgear due to a wonderful 'head & arm' throw, (like Alain says he likes...you all have read his book, RIGHT?!)she ended up kicking and punching me in my uncovered head...hard. It hurt, but she had learned good lessons. I train fellow Law Enforcement(LE) officers in defensive tactics/combatives. There are a number of LE defensive tactics systems out there that try for the fancy techniques & use unrealistic methods to control threats. In almost every class, I have instructors from these systems, unable to apply basic control during scenario situations. Once they get a bit of training, they are then able to apply some of those skills. Again, someone failed to mention to the student or test them in a realistic situation...they were suprised by what they encountered. I love sparring. I love forms (even have some big trophies!). I practice the arts knowing that what I'm doing may save my life some day...it probably already has. Sparring is one thing, fighting is another. Know the difference, and you will be just fine. Train hard, train right, Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives - ------------------------------ Mr. Gajdostik, Thank you so much for putting all that into words and providing the example of of the young lady testing. - ---------------------------------- Merry Christmas to all my fellow Martial Artists and thanks to Ray for providing this discussion format. - ----------------------------------- Jim Floyd Warrior Alliance - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------- ------------------------------ From: "David Salt" Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:34:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: modern TKD To the list: Is there such thing as a modern Tae Kwon Do style...modern being defined as normal stances and non-linear puches, more like Mui Tai or western kickboxing. What would it be called? What association represents it? David Salt headbanger@mindspring.com ------------------------------ From: "alejo mac" Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:54:37 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Difference betwen sparring, fighting and combat These 3 words even though considered by many as the same are in reality very different and maybe actually opposites. they represent to me the 3 different levels at which contact confrontations occur. Sparring means confronting one or more contraries in physical contact while behaving betwen a very defined set of rules, and where none of the individuals involved wish to damage the other. Fighting(as in a school fight or similar)its bassicaly the same thing as sparring while eliminating the some of the rules(some rules still apply since the parts remain somewhat under control) and, adding the intention of at least one of the parts to hurt the other. Combat its none of the above, combat its a situation where all the parts have the intention to hurt permanently(as in killing, maiming, etc) the other. there are no rules, the only thing that counts its to eliminate the other and leave walking (or at least alive. at this level the human part of our brains practically shuts down and we let go of our animal (almost retillian side)of ourselves. the true martial arts are in reallity designed to nwork in the last 2 of the categories above mentioned, and specially the last one, obviously there are many other things (meditation, self confidence,coordination, agility,health, longer life span,love of life[primordial etc)the martial arts can provide to a human being, but those thing remain secundary or are prerequisites or reinforcements to survival skills, for example, for an individual to survive a real life fight or combat it must have all of the above, plus the survival skills. remember the word martial in martial arts doesn't come for free. P.S. please forgive the lousy grammar since i'm not a native english speaker Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com ------------------------------ From: "David Salt" Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:30:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Chuck Norris and Tang Soo Do This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D16.DBF74F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I stumbled apon this...I dont know if it helps. Interesting, it mentions that Norris just completed train with the Gracie brothers. http://www.martialarts.about.com/recreation/martialarts/library/weekly/aa081 400.htm - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D16.DBF74F60 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Martial Arts Styles of the Rich and Famous What Martial Art Did Chuck, Jackie, and Seagal Choose, and Why.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Martial Arts Styles of the Rich and Famous What Martial Art Did Chuck, Jackie, and Seagal Choose, and Why.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.martialarts.about.com/recreation/martialarts/library= /weekly/aa081400.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=3Dhttp://www.martialarts.about.com/recreation/martialarts/library/wee= kly/aa081400.htm Modified=3DA0DC325E406DC0017A - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D16.DBF74F60-- ------------------------------ From: HogWldFLTR@cs.com Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:26:29 EST Subject: the_dojang: Holiday Greetings and Introduction Hello Digest Subscribers, I am new to the digest; I want to wish you all the happiest holiday time and a prosperous and successful new year. I live in Tucson, AZ. This is currently the nicest weather of the year by many's standards although in truth I'd swap the 70s midafternoon temperatures for something a bit warmer with longer days. I am 48 y/o; I'm renewing my involvement with Korean martial arts (HapKiDo and TaeKwonDo after a decade and 1/2 break). I have studied both previously when I lived in NJ (Dojang was in Elizabeth). Now I get to practice with my 14 y/o son (Alan, III) who seems to appreciate his father's involvement and dive rolls. When I lived in NJ and trained 18 hours a week, I was 1 Gup but never achieved 1 Dan mainly due to my insecurity and promotion at work. My main empahsis was on TKD. There were issues with the school which I won't go in to. Hapkido was an after thought as far as I can tell. When I had to quit, the school and commute to it became intolerable. I took up a Japanese style for a bit called Aiki-Ki Jujitsu at a school near where I lived based heavily in Aikido and Jujitisu. I have had other interests as well including kickboxing and Kung Fu but to say the most these were just dabblings. It's taken me a longtime to get back to practicing mainly because of involvement with family and work. It is great to be practicing with my son although his progress is somewhat slowed by his fear of hurting himself. In the meantime I am beating myself up a bit going through soreness and even a pulled hamstring (due to my own foolishness). I'd appreciate any recommendations from other grey beards who practice. We just had testing last week which was great although from my POV each class is a testing. Thanks for allowing me in the digest. Oh by the way, I'm an engineer with Texas Instruments. Best regards, Lee Fisk Tucson, AZ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:39:19 PST Subject: the_dojang: missing ?? Just FYI... Don't see your post? See the issue about HTML and AOL 6.0. Sorry... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:45:36 PST Subject: the_dojang: Martial Musings, Robert W. Smith On my flights to Ohio for the holidays I spent many a long hour in the airport and on the plane (more in the airport than on the plane). I brought Robert W. Smith's new book Martial Musings with to pass the time. Don't waste your time. Aside from a few interesting passages about Donn Draeger, John Gilbey, and Helio Gracie's match against Kimura, it is pretty bad (IMHO). Mostly just his recollection of his life in the martial arts. I was hoping for much more... Save your $$. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:50:32 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #796 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.