From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #3 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 3 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 003 In this issue: the_dojang: What is Hapkido the_dojang: RE: What is Hapkido? the_dojang: Puzzle mats? the_dojang: Off to Korea the_dojang: Zen puzzle the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~999 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:06:31 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: What is Hapkido Dear Mr. Sims, RE: my opinion on "What is Hapkido?" >You could not be more wrong.< I find your disagreement unreasonable. A one sentence question was asked "What is Hapkido?". A one sentence answer was given; "Whatever GM Ji says." Your "definition" >arts which share a joint heritage with Daito-ryu and Korean traditions as well as honor the Hapkido's Three Principles.< Why would yours be right and GM Ji's wrong? Your answer is so broad as to be a non-answer. What does it profit you to NOT have an answer? If you think the Art, some master, some diety of historians, or that nonsense each calls the "truth" is being served, you are mistaken. >GM Choi and GM Jang< Which Jang? Are you trying to hoist a co-founder again? :) >By way of extension, there are also those derivatives of GM Choi and GM >Jang (ie. HwaRangDo, Kuk Sool, Han Pul) which are also "hapkido in its >broadest sense.< And as soon as GM Seo, GM Suh, and SGM Lee bow low (one of those Korean traditions) and dump the Chinese influence, perhaps GM Ji will allow them to reclaim the Hapkido heritage they divorced themselves from. =:) >I also think that you do a disservice to people who are "..questioning and >nudging the "truths" about Hapkido and its origins..."< I have found that my service to Hapkido puts me in opposition to others, I accept it. >In case you had not noticed the nature of Hapkido as an art has become such >a tangled web of cross-purposes and mis-information that most people choose >not to ask any questions but rest comfortably with whatever material >tumbles back and forth through the MA community.< You question Hapkido leadership, you want to define Hapkido as some dripping dishrag catchall MA, you demand facts when it suits and accept fancy likewise. And then you say that others are tangling the web?! >I would encourage you to invest yourself in acquiring a deeper >understanding of both the art and its heritage, knowing that you are the >next generation to carry the torch.< Thank you for the recommendation. However, I do not accept your premise that my position is based on a deficiency. Rather I believe your position reflects a need for additional analysis and exposure as something other than an academic pursuit. Let me point out that carrying a torch is mostly; not burning those who passed it to you, not burning yourself, and not burning those you pass it to. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:28:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: What is Hapkido? Dear Patrick: I have been working to understand your reasoning behind this statement you have used three times now- to wit: "What is Hapkido?... Whatever GM Ji says it is." I still don't understand your reasoning for clinging to this statement or your reuse of it. Perhaps you could share with me what it is about GM Ji that makes you think that he has exclusivity to Hapkido. Did you think it was because he is attributed with coming up with the name? According to a history by David Middleton (Australian Hapkido Group) in an interview GM Ji reported that he ""gave" the name 'hapkido" to GM Choi "out of respect" and apparently GM Choi used it to some limited degree for the balance of his career. Did you think it was because GM Ji introduced kicking techniques over and above the techniques found in the Daito-ryu curriculum. GM Moo-woong Kim also introduced kicking techniques albeit less acrobatic to the Hapkido curriculum. According to GM Ji they even collaborated in 1963 on these matters. Did you think it was because GM Ji's art shares traditions with both Korean techniques as well as Japanese techniques.? I'm afraid there are more than a few kwans and organizations that do that. Did you think it was because only GM Ji is descended from GM Choi in the Hapkido tradition. So far I have counted over 30 individuals who can trace their lineage back to GM Choi and or GM Ji and they all most freely use the term "hapkido" to generally identify the art they practice and then sub-qualify according to art or kwan. Did you think it was because only GM Ji and GM Choi brought the mixing of Daito-ryu and Korean martial tradition to the world? GM Jang has been teaching "hapkido" (spec Hapki yu sool) since the end of WW II and has his own lineage of Hapkido tradition. Perhaps it is only because it makes you feel good to hold that position. Perhaps because it is convenient and keeps things simple to identify the term Hapkido with only GM Ji. Not a problem. Nothing wrong with that. There are still Karate purists who use the term Karate only to designate Shotokan from OS Funakoshi. There are still purists who believe the use of the term "ju-jitsu" by the Gracie family is a travesty. My personal favorite is "Miyami Ryu Ju-jitsu" which despite its japanese sounding name is neither a Ryu nor ju-jitsu by strict definition. My goal in responding to Carstens' original question was to suggest some more technical ways of defining what constitutes Hapkido as a martial art. However, your approach has kept the dialogue going and that in itself has been a service. Thanks. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Gregory Giddins Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:50:41 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Puzzle mats? Hi all, Happy New Year/Millenum. Does anyone have an opinion on puzzle mats? I see alot of companies selling them, is anyone using them in their dojang? If so, for how long? And for what uses? And how are they holding up? I looked up some old issues of the_dojang and just found a couple references to them, one being students getting jammed toes from the seams. Anyone else encounter that? They sure seem like a great option, being so much more inexpensive than vinyl covered mats. I know all you richie-rich owners like the real ones :), but for us little guys are puzzle mats worth buying for every-day training? Or is it like using a washcloth as a beach towel? Greg Giddins mailto://gregoryg@loronix.com "You are never given a dream without also being given the power to make it true." - - Richard Bach ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:46:00 EST Subject: the_dojang: Off to Korea Hey all, Well the day is finally here. We are off to Spokane this afternoon and then off to Korea tomorrow morning. I'm not sure if I will have access to check e-mail while over there or not, so if not, I'll check in and tell you about it when I return at the end of the month. Hopeing to meet list members Andrew and Anthony while we are there, and I'm really looking forward to seeing my Hapkido instructor's new school. Stay Safe, Alain ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:22:05 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Zen puzzle > > > From: "Chris Hamilton" > > Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:49:41 -0600 > > Subject: the_dojang: Zen puzzle > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > At the end of our last class Doju-nim Kimm challenged us to > > explain the meaning of holding his hand up displaying five > > fingers. Nobody had a clue, and he stated "maybe with another > > year training, you will understand". He then asked, with his hand > > open, "how many?". Then he closed his fist and asked "how many?", > > some people responded one, some said five. Obviously neither was > > correct. Does anybody have a solution for this Zen puzzle. Many have posted answers few are close IMHO none are correct Zen puzzles (a.k.a. "Koans") have no answer. The purpose of asking them is to force the mind into stillness - or, in more "Western" terms, to force you to confront the limitations of language and logic. My solutions: How many fingers is he holding up? None. There are no fingers. (I.E. he is holding out one part of his body. Who can say where the finger starts and the hand stops. These are artifical divisions imposed by our language.) What is the meaning of holding up five fingers? 1) That he is not holding up six. 2) That he is not holding a glass of water. 3) (silence) (BTW, I like #3 best) > > My first assumption was that it related to the five senses, or > > perhaps it means something as simple as goodbye. A finger is a finger; a sense is a sense. How can a finger mean a sense? There are no fingers, so how can they mean anything? He who knows Zen does not speak of Zen. He who speaks of Zen does not know Zen. We cannot speak of it; we must stand silently and point the way. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:13:10 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #3 ****************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.