From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #18 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 9 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 018 In this issue: the_dojang: Dale Drouillard ? the_dojang: Hindu Squats & Pushups the_dojang: My "misquote" of GM Ji the_dojang: Re: Following up my original opinion question the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #17 the_dojang: sorry ray, trying aolmail on internet explorer this time :) the_dojang: Mats only used part of the time. the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~999 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 8:08:16 PST Subject: the_dojang: Dale Drouillard ? What ever happened to Dale Drouillard, Moo Duk Kwan Dan #757 (April 1958)? He was from Detroit, MI. He is still around? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:25:07 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Hindu Squats & Pushups Ray wrote: "Can you describe a hindu squat and a hindu pushup?" Sure. Keep in mind that these two movements are the staple exercises of Indian wrestlers, and are even diagramed in Draeger's 'Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts'...specifically in the chapter covering Indian fighting arts and wrestlers. The hindu squats are the "bathaiks", and the pushups are the "dands" (cat stretches). Karl Gotch has stated in an interview that he learned these movements from an Indian that he met in London years ago, and recently taught these movements to Furey who is currently building a cottage industry around them (the guy would try to sell ice to the Eskimos if there was a buck in it). Here's a description of the squat with text taken directly from Furey's website: "1. Begin with your feet shoulder-width apart and your toes pointing straight ahead. 2. Keep you back straight and lower your buttocks until your thighs are parallel to the floor. 3. As you lower your buttocks your hands are BEHIND your legs, and they follow you toward the ground. 4. As you hit the parallel-to-the-ground position, you simultaneously raise your heels from the floor. 5. Push off your toes, raising your body to a standing position. 6. As you raise your body, your hands come IN FRONT of your body. They continue to rise until they are level with your chest. 7. Once you have reached the up-position, you pull your arms in toward your chest as if you are rowing a boat. Make tight fists with your hands and pull. Your elbows will be close to your body as you pull. 8. Inhale as you pull your arms in, exhale as you lower yourself. 9. Repeat without stopping for as many reps as possible. In the beginning, depending on your condition, you will be able to do 25-50. When you can do 100 without stopping, your conditioning level is improving. 10. When you can do 500-straight Hindu squats, you're making great progress." Now, having provided all that...I'm going to give some warnings. This type of squatting cannot be taken lightly, and I don't recommend it for everybody. The footing for these squats presents a challenge to one's balance, so there's a real danger of tweaking a knee or an ankle if you become unstable. Consider foregoing the "rowing" movements of the arms, and do these squats with one hand on a chair or table for safety. Personally, I do it the "traditional" way, but others should make adjustments as they see fit. A few more points...most kinesiologists will tell you that letting the knees go farther than the toes when squatting is a no-no. The hindu squats definitely break this general rule, so keep in mind that you'll be going against the grain of conventional wisdom. However, from my personal experience, I have been doing these squats for many months, and my knees are stronger and feel better than when I was 18. I use to have nagging pain when climbing stairs, but that pain has totally gone away since starting these on a regular basis. As I said in an earlier post, my legs and hips are much more flexible, stronger, and have greater endurance. My advice for doing these is very simple...start slow and always control your descent. In the beginning, I only did about 10-20 per day until my knees became stronger and adjusted to the movement. Now I can do hundreds of these in the course of a workout with no problem. Also, descending into the squat is critical. Go slow as you descend and don't "bounce" out of the squat. Make your muscles do the work, and don't cheat by using momentum. You'll only defeat the purpose of the exercise, and injure youself in the long run. Also, forget what Furey says about "500 squats"...he puts too much emphasis on big numbers. I say if you can do 150 straight at a good clip (should take you about 5 minutes) then you're doing great. Gotch also stated in an interview that he rarely did more than 300 of these squats during a typical workout. IMHO, most people will get good results by incorporating just 50 of these into their regular workouts. The pushups are what we used to call "dive bombers" in football. Imagine yourself in the "up position" for a standard pushup. Now spread your feet about two shoulders wide and walk your hands back until your hips are in line with the feet. This is the start position for the hindu pushup. Use your arms to lower your head and chest down to the floor until they almost touch. You then arch your back, and look directly up towards the ceiling as you straighten your arms and raise your body. Now, your back is arched, your arms extended, hips almost touching the floor, and looking straight up toward the ceiling. Now just raise your hips back up to the orginal position in order to continue. Legs are always straight throughout the entire movement. This movement is great for upper body stength and is superior to standard pushups due to the greater range of motion. Flexibility in the back is also greatly increased through the arching movement. I'm still weak in this movement, and usually wimp out after 25 to 30. If you can do 100 straight...you're in an elite class. Explore these exercises, and see what you can get out of them. I've had great results so far. Nothing magical about the movements themselves...just good old fashioned calisthenics that are time tested and proven. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:18:38 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: My "misquote" of GM Ji I had originally said: ><< The issue really appears to me to be that GM JI says he is the founder >of > Hapkido, gave the name Hapkido to GM Choi, and now wants GM Choi's >students > (and their students) to: > > A) stop using the name Hapkido, or > B) agree that he founded their art (this seems highly unlikely), or > C) at least acknowledge that he came up with the term Hapkido which they >now > apply to their art (which, from what I have seen, many of them don't have >a > problem doing).>> But Rick Nabors seems to have taken some exception to this and stated: >Chris, you seem to be moving beyond the fringes here. GM Ji has never >stated >that he wants GM Choi's students to do any of these things you have listed. >Please don't put words in his mouth. I'm not sure where you came up with >this other than just making it up yourself. There seems to be much of that >from people on this list. I would encourage you to ask GM Ji for yourself. >I routinely sponsor seminars for GM Ji and invite the public to train with >the man. Take the time next time and discover for yourself what it's all >about. > >Rick Nabors Mr. Nabors (and all other students of GM Ji), I am not trying to put words into the mouth of GM Ji. I am trying to come up with a logical meaning as to what is meant by saying he "founded Hapkido." You obviously disagree with my possible conclusions, but have failed to offer me any of your own. I would be willing to call or write GM Ji to hear his explanation. I would be more comfortable with an address that I could write to as I do not make it a habit of calling Masters up out of the blue that I have never met. Is this address for the World Hapkido Association in Trenton, NJ still current? DoJu JI, Han-jae World Sin Moo Hapkido Association 20 Waverly Place Trenton, New Jersey 08609 Phone: 609-588-4757 Frankly, from what I have heard about GM Ji's character on this list I have the utmost respect for him, which I have tried (apparently unsuccessfully) to demonstrate in my postings. I have not, in any way that I am aware of, belittled him or his contributions to the Korean Martial Arts. Let me try to make my point again, another way. If GM Ji is the founder of Hapkido (and I am NOT saying he is not) then the Hapkido practiced by GM Choi's lineage is either 1) not Hapkido or 2) Hapkido and therefore founded by GM Ji. But if GM Ji is the originator of the word "Hapkido" then it would seem that GM Choi's students are using his term to describe their art AFTER he gave it to GM Choi to use. I don't know that I see anything wrong with this. If there is another option given the facts I would be happy to hear it. Seriously. Again, I hope that nothing I have said offends anyone. Nor do I mean to be disrespectful to GM Ji. If I am wrong, please show me where. I am not a Hapkido practitioner and so have very little emotionally invested in this issue and am just interested in the history (and logic) of how it all pans out. Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:29:39 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Following up my original opinion question >------------------------------ >From: Martin Price > Grandmaster Hyeon Kon Lee the owner and head instructor of my Dojong >was undefeated Asian TKD champion 5 years running, yet many of the >instructors at my Dojong have never fought full contact, no protective >equipment, or in the street (WTF tournaments yes), so in regards to taking >TKD from an instructor who has never fought it depends upon your definition >of "never fought". My reply: Just for clarification, I was not making reference in any way to tournaments or tournament competition. I was only referring to "self-defense" on the "street", whatever you all think that may be. (That's another opinion unto itself. :) For further clarification, *I* am the instructor of which I speak. I mentioned to one of my seniors (in rank, not age) in hapkido the other day in class that I had never been in a fight and he was utterly shocked. Of course, he is one of those that (I think) tends not to avoid some situations which he may be able to. Maybe he is still in that stage that Master Timmerman was referring to. :) I am grateful for the opinions. Keep them coming! Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:24:45 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #17 In a message dated 1/9/01 9:03:54 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Do not get me wrong, I am not saying that there are not good instructors out there that have never fought, what I am saying is how can you teach what you have never done. >> I have never broken a person's leg. So can I teach anyone to do it properly? Of course. In two occasions, two of my adult students, one a yellow belt and one a black belt, broke the leg of their attacker. Both in self defense situations of course. Any way, the wife of the black belt asked me after class one day, "Mr. Pieratt, have you ever broken anyone's leg using this techniques?" I told her no and "she asked me how do I know it will work then?" Two weeks later her husband was attacked coming out of the bathroom of a conv. store.....two seconds later, his wife now had proof that I knew what I was talking about. Why the attack? Seems my black belt took too long in the bathroom! gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Alanis0811@aol.com Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 14:07:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: sorry ray, trying aolmail on internet explorer this time :) There are different colors of rebreakable boards, to match the belt level prgression, and increasing in difficulty. Our federation and school uses them and I find them to be a great thing, they don't wear out as easeily as the padded-type ones we have had, and can be stacked together for more difficulty if you just wanted to invest in a few. The ones we got I believe went for $30 a piece, so the are pricely, but well worth it. Tang Soo, Jenn :) www.cheezictsd.com ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 14:41:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Mats only used part of the time. Chris had asked: >>I was wondering if someone can enlighten me as to why so many Taekwon->>Do >>dojangs have mats. T. Kennelly answered: Chris: This is the same at my instructor's school. However, most of the people seemed to be talking about mats that were lon the floor all the time and were causing problems during basic kicking drills and sparring. Yes, if you're going to do break fall and throws get out the mats (at least if people are going airborn), but I still think the problems outweigh the perks for mats in sparring. - ---------- T. Kennelly - Yes, at our school we put the mats down when practicing break falls rolls, and some creative self defense. The mats are put away whenever we practice anything else. It appears our to schools use mats in a similar way. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:48:38 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #18 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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