From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #24 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 11 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 024 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #23 the_dojang: Re: weights for tkd the_dojang: RE: Safety tips... the_dojang: Re: Flu Shots the_dojang: weapons for kids the_dojang: Uniforms the_dojang: Systems and recognition the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #22 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #22 the_dojang: scientific, not... Re: the_dojang: Systems and recognition the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~999 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gary Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:36:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #23 > > Hi there folks, yet another clueless newbie question from me! > > I have started doing weights in the last week. Following the advice of one of > the members of my tkd club, who also does rowing and general fitness training, > I plan on doing lots of reps of lighter weights rather than fewer of heavier > ones. Hey there- First off, my best advice would be to go to- http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html It's a good web page about weightlifting and women. It's not specific to Martial Artists, but it's a nice resource. Second, don't worry about getting huge. Unless you move into the gym and switch to an all protein diet, it's pretty unlikely. Third, you need to figure out what you want from weightlifting. A low weight, high repetition routine will build endurance, but isn't very good at building strength. If your trying to increase your power and speed, you might want to think about going with higher weights/lower reps. Lifting is IMHO a nice addition to MA training. Just remember to stretch before and after, and schedule it around your training. It's not fun to do a kick workout right after a tough leg lifting session. GK ------------------------------ From: Sarah Pride Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:14:32 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: weights for tkd >>>>> I have started doing weights in the last week. Following the advice of one of the members of my tkd club, who also does rowing and general fitness training, I plan on doing lots of reps of lighter weights rather than fewer of heavier ones. <<<<< I have lifted weights for about two years now, on average only once a week though sometimes more if I have a little weight of my own to lose. :) I did not find this sufficient, even with TKD classes twice a week, so over the past two months I've added in jump rope and riding our stationary bike four times a week. With weight training for strength and aerobics for endurance, I've seen great improvements - - especially in sparring. Even in forms, however, I can exert more snap and precision, though that may be a side effect of lots of practice and more experience than I had previously. Anyway, the weight-lifting strategy I've always found to work best is sort of like a pyramid. On an exertion scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being total muscular failure (arms quivering halfway up, literally unable to finish that last rep), 1 being carrying your pocket calculator and 5 being carrying a medium-sized bag of groceries, the ideal is to go from an exertion of 5 to, on your last rep, an exertion of 10. You do this in the following fashion (this is what I do for my biceps): Exercise - weight (in each hand) - reps - exertion level - rest between sets Dumbbell curls - 10 lb. - 12 reps - 5 - 1 min Same - 12 lb. - 10 reps - 6 - 1 min Same - 15 lb. - 8 reps - 7 - 1 min Same - 20 lb - 6 reps - 8 - 1 min Same - 15 lb - 12 reps - 9 - 0 min Hammer curls - 15 lb - 12 reps - 10 - 2 min. As you see I build up to my highest weight at six reps, then for the next set, after a minute's rest, I go back to 15 lb. at twelve reps. Then without a rest between this set and the next, I finish up with a different exercise for twelve reps. The important thing is to reach total muscular failure during your sets. All the reps leading up to those last few are just buildup; the last few are what build your muscle, as they are what really exhaust it. See, you really get the muscle during the next few days as your body heals the wrecked muscle tissue. That's why it's a good idea to only weightlift every other day at the most, to give your body time to "fix" your muscle. >>> Here's the question - exactly how much should I be looking at building up to being able to lift/press/whatever before I start increasing the reps beyond the standard 3x20? Twice as much as what I was originally able to do, three times? <<< Trying to increase reps quickly becomes boring, and it doesn't work as well as gradually increasing weight. See, if you do the same amount of reps all the time, yet increase the weight a tiny bit each time, you'll actually be building your power. However, the idea is not to try to do one rep of the most weight you can possibly lift. This helps very little, and also leads to poor technique and possible injury. Chances are, however, if you can do 60 reps of 25 lb. then you should increase the weight a bit to reach total muscular failure. Do not go beyond a weight you can control, however. >>> BTW, I can bench press a whole 25 pounds! So am a bit of a weenie. I don't want to end up with huge muscles as a) This will result in me being in the heavyweight division in tournaments and b) I won't fit into my wedding dress in a few months time if I do :-). <<< LOL, well, I don't have humongous muscles but I consider myself fairly strong. People have expressed at times that it is not too much fun being punched by me. I don't think weight lifting, in moderation, will make you look like those.... female?... weight lifters you see in the bodybuilder competitions. I mean, I know I'm fairly normal-looking. If anything my weight has gone down considerably since I started lifting two years ago... I have no idea what my bodyfat was, but even if I did know I wouldn't post it to the list! Suffice it to say I was probably about 165 lbs. then and am now about 150 lbs., with a lot more muscle. I lift roughly double what I did then for every upper-body area I exercise - chest, back, biceps and triceps. So hey, if I get up to 60 lb. on bench press now (still not happy about it), that means I started about where you are. Keep in mind that this means I can really lift a good deal more than that - once. So the main point is that you're not likely to swell up horribly. So don't worry too much about that wedding dress, though if the sleeves are tight now you may have to indeed get them a bit larger. Gosh, this is the longest post to the list I have ever made. I could go on and on, about nutrition, supplements and all that. But I won't. I have a satire to write for AP English Lit. - -Sarah Pride- ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:18:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: RE: Safety tips... I had to jump in here about the "helpful tips for women." This email gets put about (sort of like the perennial "mouse balls" jokes) every once in awhile, and each time it sets my teeth on edge. I appreciate the fact that Anne wished to help, and the phrasing of the original email makes it seems very truthful and helpful---but it actually is very counterproductive. Among other things, I'm on a women's self-defense list (as are a couple of other people here, I think) and we analyzed that particular email (read: ripped it to shreds) just the other month. I'm going to hit some of the high points we discussed on that other list, just to give a few examples. Again---this isn't anything against the original poster. Indeed, the email makes a couple of decent comments, but mostly tells a lot of myths as to what happens, and gives some very bad advice with regards to situations. For people interested in this sort of thing, I highly suggest going to egroups (www.egroups.com) and looking into the email group "WSDList." > From: Donnla Nic Gearailt wrote, > replying to: > >From: "Anne Skjold" > > > > I thought this would be a beneficial email for all my female friends, > >family and fellow Martial Artists to read about. I hope no one ever has to > >use this knowledge but you just never know. Better to be safe than sorry. > > > Firstly, many thanks for posting this - there are quite a few things in it > that I wasn't aware of (especially the average time of day women are attacked, > I would have thought it would have been at night, after bars shut). Indeed so. Far as I know, this "fact" about when women are generally attacked, isn't actually proven anywhere. Matter of fact, most of the "facts" stated in this post aren't actually backed up by the data available. > > * If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you > >and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said > >they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be > > afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target. If you > >carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries > >it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it > > out will be a deterrent. > > > pity we can't carry this in the UK. I've been told hairspray is a reasonable > substitute and legal to carry. ...and anyone who has actually worked with pepper spray knows that this is NOT how you want to use it. > > Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your > >surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd > >behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel a > >little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was > >trouble. This is one of the few things in the post that seems spot-on. It was interesting----one of the moderators of the WSDList said "it seems like the author did even less research than normal" with regards to his facts and pronouncements. Every once in awhile he said something good, but mostly he seemed to be respouting a lot of hearsay about what happens, and making up ways to deal with it. Here is the original email, with some comments from me: > Forwarded by a friend: > Interesting insight! > > I just finished taking the most amazing self-defense class, sponsored by > Shandwick, and I wanted to share some really valuable info with you before > it goes out of my head. The guy who taught the class has a female friend > who was attacked last year in the parking garage at Westport Plaza in > St. Louis one night after work and taken to an abandoned house and raped. > He started a women's group and began teaching these classes soon after. > This guy is a black belt in karate and trains twice a year with Steven > Segall. He and the others in this group interviewed a bunch of rapists > and date rapists in prison on what they look for and here's some > interesting facts: In the egroup, people found this very funny, for many different reasons. Among other things, Segall (actually spelled Seagal) doesn't practice karate, and the fact that the author is a black belt means absolutely _nothing_ with regards to being able to teach self-defense. Also, the comment about questioning "rapists and date rapists in prison" doesn't sit right with me---among other things, because I work in a maximum security prison, and you know, just walking in and questioning people like that doesn't happen. Prisons don't mark a difference between rapists and date rapists, nor is that info available to the public, without checking the court records on each person. Similarly speaking, any of the sexual offenders I've talked to (and scarily enough, I talk to a hundred or so per day, though normally not about their crimes) would ever call themselves a date rapist. So how, pray tell, would anyone get this information? how would one know the difference? > The #1 thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are > most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other > hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a > woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets. This is nonsense. This whole post contains information that mostly talks about stranger assaults, and in terms of sexual assaults on women, stranger assaults are not at all common, compared to acquaintance assaults. Indeed, long hair gives an attacker a control handle. However, I've _NEVER_ heard it given as a main qualifier in terms of choice. Or as a qualifier at all. > The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for a woman > who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. The #1 outfit they look for is > overalls because many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing and on > overalls the straps can be easily cut. This is just stupid. Carry scissors around? Give me a break. And again, this sort of commentary is in regards to "stranger danger" as opposed to the MUCH more common setup of date rape and acquaintance assault. > They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their > purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard > and can be easily overpowered. Yes and no. Indeed, any predator will look for victims that are not paying attention to their surroundings. This is obvious. And yes, in a stranger situation, a person is much more likely to be hurt badly if they weren't paying attention in the first place. However, this phrasing all ignores what really happens most of the time, which is acquaintance assaults, in which the attacker has the victims full attention, has already gone through a serious interview process to determine the victim's reactions and boundries, and in general, already has the victim in some isolated place such as their home. > The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the > early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m. I'd LOVE to hear where this factiod came from. > The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store > parking lots. Number two is office-parking lots/garages. Number three is > public restrooms. Not even close. The number one place women are sexually assaulted is in their home, or in his home. The above quote may be true for stranger situations (a tiny subset of all sexual assaults) but as I haven't seen any justification for any of the facts thus far, I'm not inclined to believe this either without supporting data. > The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and > quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry > about getting caught. In stranger situations, perhaps. The thing that bothers me most about this is it does a double duty: Wildly hyping "stranger danger" attackers gets people frightened for very little reason (of course, it DOES make them take classes like the author teaches) and makes people _not_ pay attention to the situations in which sexual assaults really occur. Yes, stranger assaults occur. But if you keep your eyes open and your head up, and act with some common sense, you have a much larger chance of getting struck by lightening. However, many people don't want to think about acquaintance attacks, don't believe it could happen to them, and don't want to think that "that nice guy I just met" might do something like that. Which is why many of the people who join self-defense courses either 1)are terified of a stranger attack, based on hype, or 2)have already been attacked, normally by a known person, and want to make sure it will never happen again. > Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape > carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years. I've heard differing opinions on this. > If you > put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only > takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't > worth it because it will be time-consuming. Less than that---2 minutes of solid struggle is a LONG time. Studies have shown that any form of resistance decreases the chances of an assault being completed. ANY. Shouting, fighting,using a weapon, etc. Now, obviously different styles of resistance are more effective than others---but resisting _at all_ decreases the chances of a completed assault measureably. The downside: in the few cases where the assault proceeded against the resistance, and was completed, the victim was hurt much worse. The short form of the upside: it you resist, your chances of being raped drop sharply. > These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or > other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. An umbrella? You have to be kidding. Again, I wonder where they got this info. > Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the > attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys > you're not worth it. Mm. > Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: > > * If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with > you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a > question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't > believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen > their face and could identify them in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target. Unfortunately, this actually plays into their hands. In almost every single case, there is an interview process that goes on between the predator and the victim. That "small talk" gives the predator a chance to assess you, your reactions, and your boundries and how dedicated you are to holding them. > * If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you > and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said > they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be > afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target. If you > carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries > it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it > out will be a deterrent. If someone wants the pepper spray spiel, email me privately, and I'll go off on that. Short form, though: Pepper spray is very effective for its purpose within a narrow range of situations. I'll note its purpose isn't to stop an attacker like many people think. Outside of that range, it goes from useless to downright detrimental. > * If someone grabs you, you can't beat him or her with strength but you > can by outsmarting him or her. If they grab your wrist, pull your wrist > back so your hand is in waving position (palm facing forward) and twist it > toward > yourself and pull your arm away. It is hard to hold onto wrist bones that > are moving in that way. They stumble toward you and you stumble back, so > you can use that momentum to bring the same out and backhand them > with your knuckles in the forehead, nose or teeth. ...thus making sure your knuckles break so that you can't use your hand. Why in the world would you backfist someone's forehead? Or teeth? Yes, wrist releases work, but a wrist release isn't a viable succesful self-defense tactic in the same way that a outside block isn't a good way to win tournaments. > * If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker > either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner > thigh HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the > underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset > she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed > stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand > it; it hurts. Indeed, it does. And it can work well to distract an opponent. Thats about it, though. It is a start, but by itself, it won't keep you safe. > * After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a > particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's balls (sorry > to be graphic) it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll piss > the guy off and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these > rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a > lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there. In a stranger situation, maybe. In an acquaintance situation, where you are in his house or your house, with no one else around and no one with earshot? Doesn't work that way. You need to do enough so that you have time to get to some place safe. Slapping someone in the groin will NOT give you enough time to get your keys, get outside, start the car, and drive off. I'll note that "groin as a second target" is a good idea, IMO---but it isn't the end of things. > * When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and > bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on > them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, > and ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly. Again, little things that can work well---but minor tricks don't keep you safe. Similarly, it is a lot harder grab someone's fingers that you might think, and after that, a lot harder to break them vs someone who is trying to actually hurt you. > Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your > surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd > behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel a > little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was > trouble. Very true. About the only part I liked. What it seemed like was that a martial artist wanted to get some people in clas, so he set up a "stranger danger" letter to worry people, and get them interested. He did a tiny bit of research in terms of what he thought self-defense was about (which wasn't correct) then taught a couple of simple once-off techniques to "combat" these dangerous situations. I'll note this happens a lot. And I detest it, since it _doesn't_ teach self-defense. It doesn't show how to deal with common situations, how to recognize predators, how to deal with the interview process, nor does it give a realistic picture of what really happens. And that is the SHORT form of what I detest about it. :) Okay, I'm done now, I'll step off my soapbox. Sorry about the long post, folks. I do want to say again that NONE of this post is directed at either Anne or Donnla---they were both trying to help, and passing along information they thought would be helpful to people. I wish more people thought along those lines. My comments are directed to the person who originally wrote this nonsense, and did serious damage towards the dissemination of actual important information about how self-defense for women works, and what it is about. Thomas (No, this topic didn't press any buttons for me. Not at all. :) Nebraska Hapkido Association - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Hap.html "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:32:49 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Flu Shots In a message dated 1/11/2001 6:52:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << And I have gotten a flu shot for about as long as they have been readily available and had never gotten a bad case of the flu since (bad = where you are in bed for a week super sick). Both of these non-scientific approaches really provide no useful info what so ever, yes? >> Yes, Ray, darned if we do and darned if we don't !!! LOL ! To each his own ... just listen to your own body. Illona ------------------------------ From: "mo :b" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:34:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: weapons for kids i'd like to find out what people think about teaching weapon defenses at the junior belt level. do instructors teach this? why or why not? at what age/rank do you start, or does it depend on the student's maturity level? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:08:04 EST Subject: the_dojang: Uniforms Janet, I have had alot sucess with Macho's stydent weight uniform. They are reinforced at the shoulders and weight 8.5 oz. My students seem to like them and they last even under the most stressful training conditions. Just a thought. Dan ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:11:08 EST Subject: the_dojang: Systems and recognition Carsten, You are correct and I always enjoy reading your post because it saves me a lot of time. I was never afforded the opportunity to train directly with Dr. Lee, Joo Bong, however I was privy to being a crash dummy for some of his more noted students while stationed with Special Forces on FT. Bragg NC, in the early 1970s a lot of what was being taught resemble each other however as you pointed out in your last post DoJu Lee, give up all ties to Hapkido as well as all of the other Martial Arts that he had rank in to promote Hwa Rang Do. Personally, I feel that he as well as DoJu Suh, In Hyuk were right in developing what they found to be the best of what they had learned over years of training and research to give us what we know today as Hwa Rang Do and Kuk Sool Won. The problem that seems to keep resurfacing is that numerous people would have you believe that all of these Korean Martial Arts with the acceptation of Teakwood are all Hapkido. While one would be accurate in saying that all of these earlier mentioned Martial Arts share a common bond and that bond being the Techniques of DoJu Choi, Yong Sul. The systems often compared today are Hwarangdo, Kuksoolwon and Hapkido with statements being that they are all Hapkido is not a fair nor accurate statement. Each system has it's own distinctive techniques and are executed according to the creator of the system. When viewing Hwarangdo even the students that have left their parent affiliation with DoJu Lee, Joo Bang make no argument as to who is the founder or successor to Hwarangdo. The same can be said about KukSoolwon. The biggest problem with Hapkido is so many people are fighting about who founded Hapkido. My point on this is can it be agreed that without the techniques of Choi, Yong Sool Hapkido would resemble something else as would Hwarangdo and Kuksoolwon. With that being said for a moment let's say Grandmaster Jae, Han Ji added many techniques to what he was taught by Choi, Yong Sool and inspite of his popularity in Korea at a very young age out of respect for his teacher continued to help in any way that he could to gain recognition for the system that he was teaching. I wonder would the argument about who is the Real founder of Hapkido and the need to settle the age old quest for who is the true guardian of the name Hapkido. I don't know! However I can say that I have train with Many Masters, Grandmasters and Blackbelts in the past 35 years and the fact is no matter what name you put on the system when it is done correct the result will almost always equal pain. In all fairness why not credit DoJu Jae, Han Ji with being the founder of Sin Moo Hapkido he established the standards that he wants taught under the auspices of Sin Moo Hapkido and is still on the floor moving with the grace and fluidity of many half his age. He ask for no special treatment when working with even the lowest ranked student at a seminar and will accept nothing short of proper form. He is a living, breathing example of what it means to be a true Grandmaster. He walks the walk. In regard to that the same consideration and respect should be given to him that I have seen given to others that did a little different. I feel had DoJu Jae, Han Ji chosen a different name for his system he would be given the respect that he rightfully deserve. Before anyone starts making comments concerning my relationship with Dojunim I want to say he is not my teacher however I have been fortunate enough to have trained with him on a few occasions and those will always remain fondly in my heart. They are many of the earlier students of Hapkido that did in deed train directly under Dojunim Jae, Han Ji and will admit that however for what ever reason they give credit to Choi, Yong Sul as their KwanJangNim. I feel that it is foolish to have 3 top students still alive and well here in the U.S. of Choi, Yong Sul and instead of making contact with them and setting up training as to try and better understand the earlier techniques and how they have changed from the beginning as to what we now are seeing as Hapkido. I apologize for the length of this post and I will try to keep them to a minimum in the future. Dan ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:18:17 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #22 In a message dated 1/11/01 8:52:03 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << And I have gotten a flu shot for about as long as they have been readily available and had never gotten a bad case of the flu since (bad = where you are in bed for a week super sick). Both of these non-scientific approaches really provide no useful info what so ever, yes? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >> A close friend of mine had a flu shot and was sick for over 9 months. gary New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:16:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #22 In a message dated 1/11/01 8:52:03 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:15:33 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Staying Well In a message dated 1/10/2001 7:17:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Yes, Gary ... I would also like to know which ones you take. I don't get the flu shot for the same reason. I had the worst flu in my whole life the year I got a flu shot ... wanted to die! Have never gotten a shot since and I have faired much better. >> I buy the herbal formulas from Dr. Richard Schultze of the American Botanical Pharmacy. Have been doing so, as stated, for years. I used to have to take antibiotics every year for strep throat until I came across these formulas and began using them. Can't afford to be sick in this business! My wife and daughter have had the same experience, and many of our friends and students as well. Call 1-877-832-2463 and ask for a free newsletter and product catalog. When you get it take a look and e-mail me, I'll tell you more specifically what formulas I use. These herbal formulas are absolutely the very best around. Dr. Shultze is to natural healing what Bruce Lee was to the martial arts! gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:38:26 PST Subject: the_dojang: scientific, not... > A close friend of mine had a flu shot and was sick for over 9 months. Ok, I'm convinced. That is clearly proof enough for me... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:43:54 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Systems and recognition > pain. In all fairness why not credit DoJu Jae, Han Ji with being the founder That should be DoJu Ji, Han Jae. Ji is the family name. > others that did a little different. I feel had DoJu Jae, Han Ji chosen a > different name for his system he would be given the respect that he > rightfully deserve. But he did come up with a different name for his art, he came up with Hapkido. Yes? I know some disagree, but in his mind (and in many others') this was the new name that he came up with. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:42:55 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #24 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.