From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #45 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 21 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 045 In this issue: the_dojang: Square Knot Taekwondo the_dojang: Re: two hand choke the_dojang: Greetings from Hong Kong, China the_dojang: Fwd: Part II--Hong Kong the_dojang: Andy Kaufman and Wrestling (comments from Asia) the_dojang: Re: TKD's focus the_dojang: Re: Aikido Today quote the_dojang: Hong Kong International Airport and Samsung E-Lounge the_dojang: Falling in love the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD the_dojang: Re: choke release Re: the_dojang: Re: Aikido Today quote Re: the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Longbro2@cs.com Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:09:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Square Knot Taekwondo Hello List, I'm looking for the history or reason behind the square knot you make when you tie your belt? Thanks AL ------------------------------ From: Bernard G Redfield Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: two hand choke << George says, What ever works for you Steven and Alain. I prefer to forget about the choke and attack directly to the eyes or throat with multiple strikes done in rapid succession. A cool head will always prevail in these situations. Of course there are many ways to get rid of the choke, but.... george petrotta >> Gary says, And why not just palm heel the assailant's jaw and break it? gary >>> How about swinging both hands around with your fingers cupped and smashing both sides of the assailants head just behind the jaw and before the ears, then scoop and rip out the offending jaw by pulling towards you in a fast jerking motion, remember its easier to pull than push : ) just a knee jerk response Bernard ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:32:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Greetings from Hong Kong, China Date: 21 Jan 01 Time: 11:30 am Greetings from Kowloon, Hong Kong. Currently sipping on a nice coffee and sitting in the Cyber Cafe directly across from the Hyatt Regency Hotel. The wife and I just did a quick tour of Kowloon as we await the plane from Hong Kong to Cebu City. I just purchased a nice Kung Fu figurine and took pictures of the location where one of Jackie Chan's films was shot. Hong Kong is extremely modern and the subway from the Airport is fantasic. You walk out of the Airport and there is the train waiting for you. Stopped off at a local eatery and had noodles and beef for breakfast. I could live here easily. Then take trips to other Asian cities. The Cyber Cafe has three terminals that allow you to send internet messages from across the world. I love this technology man ! My wife's family will meet us in Cebu. They have arranged for me to meet several Arnis/Esrima instructors. Wife just walked in the Cafe. She purchased this nice picture of a chinese woman. More to follow. Peace, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:00:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Fwd: Part II--Hong Kong - --- Ken McDonough wrote: > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:45:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Ken McDonough > Subject: Part II--Hong Kong > > There is nothing like sleeping next to your wife on a plane for 14 hours > straight. This is the sign of long lasting relationships. > > Anyway, we stopped by the Hong Kong Buddhist Museum and took pictures by > the river where > there was a chase scene in Jackie Chan's movie. One thing nice about Hong > Kong is that English is > spoken by many and the signs are in Chinese and English. Compare that to > Korea where you need a translator following you around. > > You can see the British influence here. The people are generally pleasant > and willing to help you out. > Put this place on your itinerary. Not too expensive either. Many modern > buildings. But, the housing > is typical Asian country stuff. Many small apartments with many people > living in small quarters. Again, > count your blessings that you live in the U.S. > > Wanted to try the hanging rabbit from the one shop but wife said no. > Video taped the guy cutting up > the poor rabbit and then placing it on the grill. > > Well, hope I did not gross you out. > > Cheers, > > McD... > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:12:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Andy Kaufman and Wrestling (comments from Asia) One poster noted: Response: I had an extra $20 in Hong Kong Dough. So, I ran back to the Cyber Shop and had another cup of Java. Then I read the Andy Kaufman comment and had to respond. This is from Hong Kong. But, you have to realize that Andy Kaufman was a brilliant comedian and humorist who often pushed boundaries. He pushed this boundaries like other great artists do. They take you to places you never have been before. Andy Kaufman's bit with the women wrestling was merely a put on. It was a huge joke played on people to obtain a response. This was similar to when Andy Kaufman slapped Jerry Lawler, the Wrestler, on David Letterman Show. Then cursed. It was all a gag. Seems like he pulled your chain on this one too. Andy is laughing in his grave. Well, coffee is over. I am hitting the Airport Express bus now. Off to the Philippines. Peace baby ! McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:55:21 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TKD's focus >------------------------------ >From: HogWldFLTR@cs.com >Subject: the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD * * * very large snip * * * >HKD seems to me more rounded and far less focussed on tournaments, where in >my opinion TKD is focussed today. > >- -Lee >A grey beard in Tucson >------------------------------ Mr. Lee, (because I have no last name :) With all due respect to the TKD schools who DO focus on competition and tournaments, my TKD school does not now, nor will it ever, focus on competition. I realize that I may be a dinosaur (even at a relatively young age) in these "modern" times, but martial arts are not about competition, be they TKD, HKD or any other art. I don't want this to come off as confrontational to you or anyone else. I only want to make sure that everyone is aware that just because someone studies TKD does not mean they are tournament-oriented. The ONLY tournament I even talk to my students about is the one my grandmaster holds annually and I only encourage them to GO, not necessarily to participate. This is out of respect for my GM and his school. Am I alone in this? It seems like just about everyone I hear about who studies/teaches TKD encourages tournament participation. Maybe I'm just a victim of the "everyone does it" mentality when it isn't that prevalent. Are there other TKD teachers out there who are like-minded? Curious, Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:00:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Aikido Today quote I don't know if anyone else reads this publication or not, but I recently picked up a copy of Aikido Today Magazine. There is a question in the reader's forum that asks about the differences between aikido, hapkido and Daito Ryu. Without going into the aikido and DR portion, I want to address something specifically in the reply about HKD. They are listing some differences and their number two reason is, "Second, unlike Aikido, Hapkido is competitive." Could someone please enlighten me on this? I've never heard of HKD being competitive. Am I just missing something? Confused, Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:39:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Hong Kong International Airport and Samsung E-Lounge Date: 21 Jan 01 Time: 2:35pm Location: Hong Kong International Airport Hi: Just left Hong Kong and train whisked us away to Airport in record time. We witnessed a Kung Fu demonstration at the airport. I had to slip in my 24 inch carry on bag since Hong Kong Airport only wants you to have 22 inches. Bought a few Kung Fun porcelain dolls. Cebu plane leaves in 20 minutes. So far no indigestion and no upset stomachs. All is good. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:33:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Falling in love Ahhhhhhhh. This takes me back many years. She ended up breaking my heart, but the time spent was well worth it. I was a new full of piss and vinegar blackbelt, and she was a lovely greenbelt. We shared the same birthday, so I asked her to dinner. I knew my sabumnim did not want any in-school romances, but I felt I could be adult about it...I was right. We dated for a couple years. She, like many, made it to 3rd gup and quit. I continued to teach. We never told anyone in the dojang (except friends & Sabumnim) about it, and our relationship never interfered with classes or teaching. I was professional. I taught her the same way I always did, which was exactly like I taught everyone else. If you do not think that you can be professional, have someone else teach her. My fiance doesnt mind me teaching her. My friends wife doesnt like him teaching her or giving her orders...lol...so I get asked fairly often to work with her. She responds just fine to me. Sometimes women dont like the normal treatment in the dojang and want special treatment...to others, it is irrelevant. Love can do interesting things in the dojang. Any women teach their husbands/boyfriends etc??? I've never heard that point of view. Train hard-train right, Mark Gajdostik ------------------------------ From: JJCatKi@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 04:36:10 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD In a message dated Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:47:22 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD HogWldFLTR@cs.com writes "From my understanding there is a significant difference in the basis of the two styles. TKD origins were to attack riders on horse back as a response to the Japanese occupation of Korea. I was told by my former Korean instructor that the style was taught by grandfathers to young teens in the mountains of Korea after the fighting age men had been put to death. At 48 my ability to peform flying/spinning kicks is poorer then it was at age 30 when I started TKD; it was none to great then in comparison to the teens and 20 year olds. HKD seems to me more rounded and far less focussed on tournaments, where in my opinion TKD is focussed today. - -Lee A grey beard in Tucson" Actually the kicks in Tae kwon do and hapkido come from the same place, Taek-kyun. Most of the kicks in both arts are virtually the same. So I don't really think that kicking people off horse back is the difference. The difference between the two lie more in the principles, or the philosophies. Hapkido teaches yoo (water), won (circular theory, and wha (harmony or nonresistance), principles. While Tae kwon do is mostly straight lines and angles, and hard blocking. Tae kwon do is a combination of shotokan and Taek kyun, while Hapkido is the combination of Yoo kwon sool and Taek kyun. I started studying Tae kwon do first, 10 years ago in 1991, and began training in Hapkido in 1994. At the time I felt that I wasn't learning anything new, and I was bored with Tae kwon do. I found out later it was not tae kwon do's fault but more my instructors (sorry different story). Basically I wanted to try something new. So I changed to Hapkido and I love it. I still practice my Tae kwon do hyungs, and still go to tournaments occationally. Although, I don't feel I would have advanced as fast or be as good as I am in Hapkido without my Tae kwon do roots. Mostly because I didn't have to worry about the kicks as much as the other students, I could concentrate more on the joint locks or the other new techniques to me. Thats why I think most tae kwon do stylist's cross train to hapkido. Thats my two pennies Josh ------------------------------ From: "NSA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:57:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: choke release <<<<>>> >>>>>>Deborah writes: Okay, but if your strikes don't immediately work, how long do you have before you pass out from a real choke? If a person is really choking you, maybe they don't care if they are being hurt at the same time? I think the idea of getting the choke eased and then immediately following up makes more sense. One issue here is having the presence of mind and the willingness to attack to the eyes. I find the idea of poking someone's eyes disturbing and while it makes sense to do to someone who is trying to choke you, I'm not sure that I would actually use this technique without hesitating first. We often talk about techniques that would be useful and effective, but the willingness to really use them against another person is something else, especially if it is not a stranger. Deborah<<<<< When in a practice situation, you can try many different techniques to see what is best. I have practiced many of these in the dojang, but the one that stands out in my mind is my answer above. The reason is this: When I was working hotel security at Myrtle Beach, SC, I had the perfect chance to use what I was taught and what I was teaching in the martial arts. Not to try and outdo anyone else on the DD, I had an interesting night during college spring break. I will keep this as brief as possible: I was on duty at 2:00 a.m., when I received a call from the desk as to a disturbance on the 9th floor of our South wing. When I arrived on the floor, I saw 3 males engaged in a heated discussion in the hallway. They were obviously drunk and very large. I say this as I was only 5'9" 160 lbs. at that time. (They were in fact members of a university football team up north). When I approached them, their anger was centered on me for disrupting them. The boldest one stepped toward me and started to yell in my face. He pushed me, which I (surprised) turned slightly (mistake) and put the other two facing my back. As I confronted the first verbally trying to calm him down, one of the two in back of me grabbed my left shoulder as if to turn me around. The first man then reached out with both hands and secured a front two-hand choke (I assume his intention was to raise me off the floor by my throat). Because I was looking over my left shoulder, he couldn't get a good center grip on my trachea. As soon as I returned my attention to him, reflex training sent my hands out. First strike was the adams apple (with one hand) and the nose (with the other), second strike was to the jaw in an upward motion and then a rear hair grab and pull, which turned him and I pushed him into his buddies. They all fell in one heap and were looking at me standing there with my .40 cal pistol drawn and my radio in my other hand calling for the MBPD. They went to spend the next 5 hours in jail and were released when they sobered up. You need to see in your mind, the amount of space I was working in and then realize that kicks, throws and grappling were out of the question. This was just one of my "peace-time" experiences where I had to use what I know. Sorry for the long post, george petrotta _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 8:24:43 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Aikido Today quote > something specifically in the reply about HKD. They are listing some > differences and their number two reason is, "Second, unlike Aikido, Hapkido > is competitive." There are HKD tournys, not real common but they do exist. They've probably heard of this and think it more common than it is. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 8:30:45 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: TKD and HKD > Actually the kicks in Tae kwon do and hapkido come from the same place, > Taek-kyun. Most of the kicks in both arts are virtually the same. I'd say that most of the kicks in TKD come more from Japanese Karate-do. Taekkyon's kicks are somewhat different. You see the influence of Taekkyon in the kicks of Sin Moo Hapkido, they are a bit different than the kicks in TKD or Karate-do. Now, many Hapkido styles have switched to the more TKDish kicks, but at least some HKD folks still teach the more Taekkyon-ish style kicks (i.e. more sweeps with the blade of the foot/shoe, kicking with the toe of the shoe instead the ball of the bare foot, bending more at the waist, etc). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 8:32:05 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #45 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.