From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #49 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 22 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 049 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Non-Profit vs Profit Schools the_dojang: Re: Teen Infatuation the_dojang: Re: Family as Students the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #44 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #45 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #44 the_dojang: Men vs. Women the_dojang: Re: down memory lane... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #47 the_dojang: Love is a many splendored thing.... the_dojang: Re: Choke Holds the_dojang: Not Competing the_dojang: Not competing/Non-profit status the_dojang: Married instructors the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:14:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Non-Profit vs Profit Schools In a message dated 1/22/2001 9:49:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << A lot of people (around here at least) are very surprised when I tell them that we are non-profit. Some of our new students don't understand how we can be non-profit and charge dues. I tell them that NON-profit does not mean NO-profit. >> Mr. Fortune, How is a non-profit school different than a profit school then if you do gain profit from it ? I don't understand the difference here. Thank you for your time. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:27:09 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teen Infatuation In a message dated 1/22/2001 9:49:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I had a friend who established a rule that in order for a black belt to date a non black belt, he first had to pay her contract in full. This seemed to keep the dating problem under control........ >> Mr. West, I like that rule ! What do you do with teens that like to hang out in the back room and chit chat while other classes are going on ? I have lately found out from parents that these teens were supposed to be attending every class that day ... that is why they left them here. Well, number one ... I am not a babysitter. Number two ... a teenager should know when they want to train or not (one claimed cramps one time and one said they were waiting for the last class to come in and train). What do you all do when you might suspect that a couple of them might have an admiration for each other ? I have been in other schools where teens would be boyfriend and girlfriend and just sit in the back and stare at each other ... for months on end ... never take a class ... it was like they were in a world of their own. But the instructor did nothing. In the end it fizzled out as most relationships that young do ... but what a waste of practice time (which they later admitted also). What would you do if you were the instructor ? Hustle them all out into the classroom and make then take class ? Or leave them be ? p.s. -- there is no funny business going on back there ! Too much back and forth actitivy back there on our part for that to happen. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:46:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Family as Students In a message dated 1/22/2001 6:47:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << All this comes from 20 years in the arts and 10 years in a beautiful marriage with a martial arts woman who COULD have been my student if I let her. I truly believed it worked out a lot better because I didn't. Your mileage may vary. >> I have seen some great families that have turned out fine with studying under each other ... and I have seen some that have literally almost killed family members in tests because they believed that their should be harder than anyone else's in the dojo to offset the belief they were getting special attention from the instructor. A friend of mine tested his brother so hard for Brown Belt the young man never wanted to achieve his Black Belt ... put it off for years out of fear. I convinced him to come to my school ... I ran the test ... and he did just fine. He is now a Black Belt and still continues to train ... but not under his brother. My instructor when he tested his second wife for her 1st Dan test ... well, I have seen UFC's not as rough as what he made her do ! No wonder she opted to stay home and raise the kids. She came back a couple of times but quit each time in tears. She believed she wasn't tough enough anymore to do it. Not true ... but that is her belief now. So what do you all believe ? Should we teach our own siblings, wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, or friends ? Illona ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:34:11 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #44 In a message dated 1/20/01 6:50:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << george petrotta >> And why not just palm heel the assailant's jaw and break it? gary >> I say, double inside/outside block-strike between the attackers arms (loosening or breaking the grip), then palm heel strike... - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:54:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #45 In a message dated 1/21/01 11:09:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Any women teach their husbands/boyfriends etc.??? I've never heard that point of view. Train hard-train right, Mark Gajdostik >> I have a lot to teach my instructor/fiance...just not in the Do Jang...:>) Men, can't live with'em (but apparently you can fight them in a dress...) - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:46:19 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #44 In a message dated 1/20/01 6:50:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Subject: the_dojang: Falling in love with a student What happens when an instructor or Master falls in love with a student? >> Although the above mentioned "hypothetical" is frowned upon, it is human nature to develop relationships with people who you share a common interest with. I have seen the student-teacher relationship abused. A "Master" is in a position of power. There is a seeming strength that draws people to that very power. Conversely, there are often bonds that cannot be overlooked or denied... I am marrying my instructor next May... - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:36:56 PST Subject: the_dojang: Men vs. Women Wrapping up on the diff between men and women, that great thinker Sharon Stone perhaps said it best... "Women might be able to fake orgasms. But men can fake whole relationships." :) Ray ------------------------------ From: Gary Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:12:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: down memory lane... > I was with an on campus group. At that time there were two MA groups on > campus, that I knew of. One Shotokan club and one Tang Soo Do club. I > went the TSD route. We practiced a few times a week in one of the campus > gyms and would also occasionally workout in the (then almost new) combat > room of the IMPE building. In these PC days, I wonder if there is still a > "combat room" in the IMPE building??? > Yep, it's still there. While my Kuk Sool club mostly practiced in Gym 4 in IMPE, on Friday and Sunday nights we would be down in that hot, windowless padded cell called the combat room. Though most of the official university literature seems to call it the "combatives room" now. I guess that has more class. Other things have changed though. When I left UIUC this summer there was around a dozen official MA clubs on campus, and a number of unofficial ones. Friday nights were open nights in the combat room, and it was always fun to see the various styles being done. GK ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:53:03 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #47 In a message dated 1/22/01 8:46:54 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Many marriages have worked out in the martial arts world ... look at all the schools with both the wife and husband running them ! How many do we have here on this list ? Illona ---------- >> My wife and I run our school together. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:19:52 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Love is a many splendored thing.... Dear Mr. Whalen: I think what you are describing is a very important topic and I would like to push the edges of the discussion just a bit. Some part of this comes from the post that Illona made about her circumstances but another part comes out of my background as a teacher both of MA and HS Social studies. Here are a couple of concerns that have cropped up as I see it. One issue is a distinct tendency for predatory behavior by teachers who misuse or abuse their positions. As an individual in a position of authority teachers of all kinds find themselves in positions where they become the focus of attention and attraction by their students. Its heady stuff, that. I teach at a junior college, and though I have more than a little snow on the roof I still have a fire in the furnace. It is often difficult for me when a young co-ed wants or expects a rapport with me beyond the teacher/student relationship. For me, I am lucky to be able to go home to a wife who compassionately helps me to keep things in perspective. For a Young single with no such support system I bet things get pretty dicey. Flipping the coin over, there are any number of attractive students, male and female, who deserve to be able to come into an environment where they want to learn, and shouldn't have to fend off hits from training partners, other students or staff. Its annoying for everybody involved (except maybe the dumb shmoe who doesn't know how obnoxious he's being) both on and off the floor. Its especially annoying as in the case Illona points out where seniors need to take over responsibilities they wouldn't ordinarily have to because GM Smith with many years of MA experience still has ONE muscle he can't seem to control. One last issue that I want to raise is the high rate of broken relationships that I hear reported regularly in the MA community. I wonder what it is that we are doing incorrectly in our training such that a person knows exactly what to do with a knife attack, but has no idea of what to do with pressure on their libido. After years of MA training, how is it that accomplished "GM", and 10th degree BB, & any avowed terrors-of-the-3-minute-ring, have no defense against a "groin pull" from a person across the room? I suppose this last thought would not carry so much energy for me right now except in light of the recent disclosure by Rev. Jesse Jackson. I can name 10 major individuals in past years that purport to be leaders in positions requiring good judgement and sound decision-making, and each of those bozo-s, despite their pontificating about right and wrong couldn't keep their pants closed. I would have thought at least MA with its emphasis on discipline, training and values would fare better. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Alagna, Steven M" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:39:13 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Choke Holds George wrote: >>I was on duty at 2:00 a.m., when I received a call from the desk as to a disturbance on the 9th floor of our South wing. When I arrived on the floor, I saw 3 males engaged in a heated discussion in the hallway. They were obviously drunk and very large. I say this as I was only 5'9" 160 lbs. at that time. (They were in fact members of a university football team up north). When I approached them, their anger was centered on me for disrupting them. The boldest one stepped toward me and started to yell in my face. He pushed me, which I (surprised) turned slightly (mistake) and put the other two facing my back. As I confronted the first verbally trying to calm him down, one of the two in back of me grabbed my left shoulder as if to turn me around. The first man then reached out with both hands and secured a front two-hand choke (I assume his intention was to raise me off the floor by my throat). Because I was looking over my left shoulder, he couldn't get a good center grip on my trachea. As soon as I returned my attention to him, reflex training sent my hands out. First strike was the Adams apple (with one hand) and the nose (with the other), second strike was to the jaw in an upward motion and then a rear hair grab and pull, which turned him and I pushed him into his buddies. They all fell in one heap and were looking at me standing there with my .40 cal pistol drawn and my radio in my other hand calling for the MBPD. They went to spend the next 5 hours in jail and were released when they sobered up. You need to see in your mind, the amount of space I was working in and then realize that kicks, throws and grappling were out of the question. This was just one of my "peace-time" experiences where I had to use what I know. Sorry for the long post, george petrotta>> George, nice post, something to think about! Thanks everyone else for their input. Alain, that technique you describe is also in the KM tape. This technique also seems to work great when you are being choked and pushed backwards at the same time. As you are pushed backward being choked, you may be stepping back with you left leg and reaching high, across and down with your right arm, trapping both hands momentarily and grabbing a hand with your left hand, you then proceed to elbow strike with your right elbow. After that, a general pummeling with palm heels, knee strikes etc. I think we all have the right idea, cause immediate pain to make them release and then additional pain so that they will not want to come back. How you do it should make sense for a multiple of similar attacks, one-hand/two-handed choke, one-hand/two-hand shirt grab. I think the idea is to find a couple good moves that will work for your arsenal and them practice them over and over being able to move from one technique to the next if the initial does not work. You cannot hesitate, the action must be immediate and reactionary, without thinking. They have to work for you, others may have their own favorite moves in their arsenal. Thanks again!! Steven M. Alagna ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:40:01 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Not Competing <> Illona, the majority of traditional taekwondo dojang that I run into do not emphasize or practice competition. Including my Houston dojang. The one or two competition oriented dojang that I have run across, appear to only practice for competition, also in those dojang the teachers are not called instructors but are called coaches. Very odd for me to see as I never thought that would happen to taekwondo, but I still find it odd to see the V-neck dobok outside of competition and it took me a while to get used to that. This is just an observation. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:50:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Not competing/Non-profit status We incorporated the dojang after being a non-profit dojang to being a Texas not for profit martial arts education corporation in 91; and yet, I will add that people continue to be surprised when they find out we are professional instructors who do not get paid. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul <<>> ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:10:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Married instructors I just saw my teacher publicly confess, stating "I guess I have to add my name to the list of married instructors." I must make the same confession. In college, I was the chief instructor of one club and I became best friends with the chief instructor of another and we eventually combined the two into one martial arts club on campus at Texas A&M. In the mid 80's I was competeting at state in taekwondo up in Fort Worth and my wife was my training partner (at that time she was the other instructors assistant). During warm ups she landed a kick in the one place that is off limits during sparring with a male. We started dating that night. I even made it to through the finals after seeking medical attention. But I also confess that it is good being married to someone who not only does not mind you being in the dojang every night but is there with you. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:52:41 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #49 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.