From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 23 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 050 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #40 the_dojang: Aikido/Hapkido the_dojang: Korea, signs, translators the_dojang: dojang love the_dojang: RE:Aikido/Hapkido the_dojang: RE:Dear Jt and RudyThe_Dojang-Digest V8 #47 the_dojang: Looking for Alumni the_dojang: Not for profit? the_dojang: Re: The V-Neck Uniform the_dojang: Teen Infatuation Re: the_dojang: Not for profit? the_dojang: Greetings from Cebu City, Philippines the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ICyrus8528@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:30:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #40 I would lie to coorect Mr. Simms' post that the Chicago Kido Seminar was cancelled to some other event. This is incorrect. As a matter of fact, we already have more participants than we can handle. Anyone who wants info can contact me at icyrus8528@ aol.com. Thanks. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster Int'l ChoSonDo Fed. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:32:03 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Aikido/Hapkido Dear Mr. Lawson, Re your post: >I've found two major differences (outside of philosophy) between Hapkido >and Aikido. First, is the emphasis on kicks. Most Aikido schools have >little to no emphasis on kicking . . . The second major difference seems to be in the technical details of techniques. In Aikido, much more emphasis is given to producing an off balance in the attacker (called Uke [oo-kay]) before a joint lock or throw is applied. In fact, it's axiomatic of Aikido. Evasion, Off-balance, throw. In *that* order. The concept of taking, stealing, or allowing the attacker to give, an off-balance seems less critical in most Hapkido.< Hapkido shares the same philosophy of throwing/twisting. It seems to me however that our(Hapkido) evasion more often contains a independently defined covering or blocking action with the evasive move. I offer this as observation not criticism, since I love to watch Aikido move. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:50:48 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Korea, signs, translators Ken McD fondly recalled that one needed a personal translator to navigate in Korea.... My reply is that Korea must have changed a lot since you spent time here. It is also undergoing a new wave of globalization right now as this year is Visit Korea 2001. Almost all road signs are in English. The entire subway system and the major buses have English instructions, in addition to the deluxe taxis with multi-lingual service there is now an on-board translation system in many cabs (free!). There is always a helpful soul with English ability of some level around to help those in need (often above and beyond the call) and the government has set-up a website and translation service for restaurants to add bilingual menus and signs. I'm not surprised that Hong Kong, a former English colony, would speak better English than Korea and neither should anyone else be. Let's just say that Korea has come a long way and continues to embrace things that North Americans have yet to accept. When was the last time you saw a Chinese or even French street sign on a highway in the States? ;) Heh. ------------------------------ From: "rich hodder" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:37:28 Subject: the_dojang: dojang love DANGER!!! With that said, I have to confess to being engaged to one of my students. This was quite a surprise to many of the TKD types here in Colorado and else where, given my well known views regarding marriage. I must, in my defense say that, my fiance has been a member of my school for 18 years and we have only been seeing each other seriously for about six months. She has trained with many of my instructors and is currently training for her 3rd Dan coming in February. Yes I will be at the test, but I refuse to test her, instead I will end up being the test dummy. This takes away the talk of favortism all together. Having said this, I have a question for the group. I have been practicing TKD since 1964 and I can't think of one TKD instructor that hasent been divorced at least once. Any success stories out there? (just to ease the COLD feet). Rich _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:44:35 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Aikido/Hapkido Dear Kirk: What a great post! Thanks for your in-put. BTW: Even though Aikido people do not, themselves, kick are there counter-kick techniques in your curriculum? I ask because Hapkido has some very effective ways of dealing with kicks but then, we do kicking as a regular part of our training. I was curious if there are special drills that are used to provide practice for counter-kick techniques where kicks are not an integral part of the curriculum? Regarding the biomechanics you mentioned involving off-balancing, Hapkido at higher levels of sophistication has what I call the Four Deportments. These are not techniques but rather ways of performing techniques and include Un-balancing, Mis-alignment, Displacement and Refinement. Though most good teachers incorporate these aspects into their curriculum one way or another, a number of schools simply do not get this analytical about how they do things as long as they can generally drop their partner on their butt. It is also a good indication of how a person comes by his training as it is inordinately difficult to pick up on the nuances of these biomechanics from simply watching a video tape or reading a book. I suspect when most Masters are relating how one cannot learn MA from a book it is more this material than any other that they are referring to. We also use "atemi" - techniques to upset the opponents' psychological or physiological balance --- but I have never heard of a Korean term to identify such specifically. Another term that folks in Aikido use is "riai" which alludes to the use of the body being essentially the same whether a weapon is used or not, and this is another concept that I have seen in Hapkido. Again, however, I have never heard a Korean term used to identify this specifically. GM Myung, Jae-nam was sure there was much more that bonded our arts together than kept them apart. I think he was on to something. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:53:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Dear Jt and RudyThe_Dojang-Digest V8 #47 Dear JT and Rudy: Or should that be "Rudy and Coke". :-) I wish I knew more about the Tomiki approach. It has some level of choreography or pre-arrangement but I just don't know enough to speak authoritatively. If people are really that interested I can always go over on to AIKIDO JOURNAL Net and post a question and see what information I can get, ne? It seems as though the results would have been predictable for such tournaments. Even when we are involved in free-form drills where I teach, people are briefed beforehand about what techniques are going to be used so "free-form" in some ways is a misnomer. I had organized some thoughts about putting together a protocol for competitive sparring in Hapkido. The way that I conceived of it both individuals would wear a hogu marked with target areas. One individual would be the attacker with a knife which would sound a tone when appropriate contact was made with a target area. The attacker would accrue points by making successful attacks to the target areas. The defender would obviously make points by successfully warding off the attack and subduing the attacker. Then the roles would be reversed for the second phase. The problem remains however that the purpose of Hapkido arts is to "stop the fight" (C. "stop/spear") and that means by any means possible. I can't think of anyone who would surrender their knees in the name of competition, yes? I mean, if you think about it, there are really cross-purposes here. In competition the idea is to drag out the fight so there is sufficient time to demonstrate competency. In Hapkido the idea is to stop the fight and maintain ones' integrity. "Houston, we (may) have a problem." Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:11:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Looking for Alumni We are having a reunion of all black belts who had Master Tony Phillips on their test board. If you trained with Master Phillips here in New Orleans, or if he sat on one of your black belt promotion boards, please contact me. The reunion is scheduled for February 17, 2001. Thanks, Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Erik Kluzek Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:22:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: Not for profit? << A lot of people (around here at least) are very surprised when I tell them that we are non-profit. Some of our new students don't understand how we can be non-profit and charge dues. I tell them that NON-profit does not mean NO-profit. >> Mr. Fortune, How is a non-profit school different than a profit school then if you do gain profit from it ? I don't understand the difference here. >>> Well I can't answer for Mr Fortune. But, to me "not-for-profit" means that the dues go directly back into the operation of the club. That means dues are used to pay for the facility, equipment, organizational membership dues etcetera. There's still a need for money flow -- besides to pay for the instructor. When I taught at Utah State University I ran the club as "not-for-profit" that mean't I didn't make any money -- but I didn't want to lose it either! So the club dues paid for everyone's organizational dues, equipment, parties, and whatever other expenses we had. I didn't seek formal "not-for-profit" status -- is that something hard to get? Worthwhile once you do? What kind of accounting do you have to provide? I've since thought that if you tell your students you are running "not-for-profit" you really need to account to them where the money goes. So on at least a quarterly basis you give an accounting of what the income and expenses of the club were. I also think that running "not-for-profit" means that you can't put your expenses above anyone elses. So for example, if you use the club dues to pay for the instructors uniform -- you should pay for everyone's uniform. If you use club dues to pay for membership dues you pay for everyone. There needs to be some standard that's applied fairly and equally to all. Erik Kluzek Boulder CO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:53:04 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The V-Neck Uniform In a message dated 1/22/2001 4:28:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Very odd for me to see as I never thought that would happen to taekwondo, but I still find it odd to see the V-neck dobok outside of competition and it took me a while to get used to that. This is just an observation. Jere R. Hilland >> Mr. Hilland, Could you elaborate on this alittle bit more ? I thought all TKD'ers wore the v-neck ? Illona ------------------------------ From: "John Franich" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:35:09 -0900 Subject: the_dojang: Teen Infatuation Illona wrote: > What do you do with teens that like to hang out in the back room and chit > chat while other classes are going on ? I have lately found out from parents > that these teens were supposed to be attending every class that day ... that > is why they left them here. > > Well, number one ... I am not a babysitter. > What do you all do when you might suspect that a couple of them might have an > admiration for each other ? I have been in other schools where teens would > be boyfriend and girlfriend and just sit in the back and stare at each other > ... for months on end ... never take a class ... it was like they were in a > world of their own. But the instructor did nothing. In the end it fizzled > out as most relationships that young do ... but what a waste of practice time > (which they later admitted also). > > What would you do if you were the instructor ? Hustle them all out into the > classroom and make then take class ? Or leave them be ? See Rule #1. Enforce it. If students are not in the dojang to train, then they have no business being there. Parents are welcome to observe at any time, but students who come to our Dojang are expected to get into uniform and take the class. The only exception is when a student has homework that they need to get done. Schoolwork always trumps training. (We are one of those schools that expects school-age students to bring their report cards to the dojang for the head instructor to review.) If the student explains to the homework situation to the instructor, then the student is allowed to work quietly on their homework, but when class is over, they'd better be able to show the instructor what they accomplished. The instructor will always check to make sure that the homework actually got done. If the student has come to the school but not taken the class for any reason, the instructor will always discuss the situation with the parent when the parent comes to pick up the child -- that day, if possible, and certainly before the next class; even if that means calling the parent at home. John Franich WTSDA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 6:56:38 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Not for profit? > I've since thought that if you tell your students you are running "not-for-profit" > you really need to account to them where the money goes. So on at least > a quarterly basis you give an accounting of what the income and expenses > of the club were. I also think that running "not-for-profit" means that you > can't put your expenses above anyone elses. So for example, if you use > the club dues to pay for the instructors uniform -- you should pay for > everyone's uniform. If you use club dues to pay for membership dues you > pay for everyone. There needs to be some standard that's applied fairly > and equally to all. Seems like there is a limit to the profit one can make to remain not-for-profit. Something like $3K or $5K a tax year??? Anyone recall the details? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:34:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Greetings from Cebu City, Philippines Date: 23 Jan 01 Time: 10:52 pm. Location: Cebu City, Philippines Ken's Travel Log, Vol I, No. 2. Wrap up of Hong Kong. First, visit the free duty shop. I picked up a bottle of Glenfiddich Special Reserve and Balatines. Hong Kong impressed me. Extremely organized. Chinese are very calm and helpful. Talk nice to you. Witnessed an older gentleman practicing Tai Chi near the river. For those of you who have not been to Asia this would be a good start since English is spoken, the city is laid out well, transportation from the Airport is great, and your treated in a nice manner. Follow up report on Cebu follows. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 7:03:41 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.