From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #51 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 23 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 051 In this issue: the_dojang: DoJang Relationships the_dojang: Ken's Travel Notes: Vol II., No 1. Cebu, PI. the_dojang: Re: DoJang Love the_dojang: Mr. Boyd=I dont have time for your digessions ! Re: the_dojang: Ken's Travel Notes: Vol II., No 1. Cebu, PI. the_dojang: RE: Travel Infor? the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #42 the_dojang: Re: Non-profit the_dojang: RE: What does it profit a man.... the_dojang: RE: Thanks for the Correction the_dojang: RE: HKD and Competition the_dojang: Re: Non-profit, uniforms, Aikido net Re: the_dojang: Re: Non-profit, uniforms, Aikido net the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 - reply Re: the_dojang: RE: HKD and Competition the_dojang: Re: Aikido/Hapkido the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:51:04 Subject: the_dojang: DoJang Relationships My wife and I both train and teach together. I started first and introduced her to the arts. As head instructors, for years we both had separate clubs and I trained her on her advance material [as her senior]. I don't feel that I showed favoritism - - in fact, I've been careful not to drive her harder than others. I've always had her dan test in front of our GM instructor and/or appropriate peers. We may have similar backgrounds, but do not always share similar philosophies on some things [like how we initially teaching falling]. We try to respect these differences and portray them to students as different perspectives on the same thing. It ain't always easy, but I'll be damn if I give up either of the two most important things in my life [her and martial arts]! Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:51:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Ken's Travel Notes: Vol II., No 1. Cebu, PI. Arrived in Cebu, PI on 22 July 01. You can immediately tell your not in Korea or Hong Kong. This is now Third World, baby ! And, I love it. Took at least one day to get my jet lagged body back into gear. On 23 Jan, played tennis in the am. Had fish, and fruit for lunch. This evening, one of the workers for my brother in law arranged for me to visit GM Canete. GM Canete is a world renowned Arnis/Escrima master. He is also gifted in Judo, JuJitsu, and Shodokan. He is now head of the Doces Pares Arnis/Escrima system. We got in the Jeepney and headed over to Padilla Street--about 10 to 15 minutes from our house. I was honored that GM Canete invited me into his home. Ray Terry--I mentioned your name and GM Canete smiled. He has high regards for you. Plan to take a few lessons from him and his son. Then I will train with other Doces Pares instructors. Yesterday, Mr. Romulo Galicano, the number one Realist Painter in the Philippines, stopped by the house. San Miquel Beer Company recently purchased the Galicano collection for 23 million pesos. Tomorrow I am meeting a Master Chan, friend of the family and a Aikido Master. More on the PI culture to follow. Cheers, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:58:06 Subject: the_dojang: Re: DoJang Love rich wrote:I have been practicing TKD since 1964 and I can't think of one TKD instructor thathasent been divorced at least once. Any success stories out there? (just to ease the COLD feet). >Rich Rich. First of all, get use to HER cold feet!! Seriously, my wife and I have been together and training well over twenty years [married for 18]. Any relationship requires work and the martial arts is easier by comparison. Of course, we have different day jobs! If its real - - -Go for it! Dana Still head over heels in love and heels over head in the DoJang! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:00:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Mr. Boyd=I dont have time for your digessions ! Mr. Boyd writes: Response: Mr. Boyd, since this is the internet and I am unable to read your inflection from the Philippines I do not understand your point. I am basically just sending information back to readers. I am not here to debate the stengths or weaknesses of one country over the other. My comment simply reflected my observations. Since 1997, when I was last in Korea, the Koreans just implemented English in the school system. Your point escapes me since I could care less on your digressions. I am here to enjoy diverse cultures. Not reflect on which culture is better than the other or meaningless little nuances. Next time send this BS to me privately. Thanks. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 7:35:34 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Ken's Travel Notes: Vol II., No 1. Cebu, PI. > home. Ray Terry--I mentioned your name and GM Canete smiled. He has high > regards for you. Manong Cacoy is a great guy. If you get to cross sticks with him you'll be surprised at how spry he is for 82. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:07:01 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Travel Infor? Dear Anthony (or Clare): You seem to have a very good appreciation of factors involving travel in Korea. Is there anything that you can share about the possibility of travel to North Korea? As I write this I am aware of only a limited program sponsored by the HUNDAI corporation in conjunction with the NK government. Are there any plans that you know of to expand accessibility to NK? I have not been able to locate a tourism agency of the NK government. Do you have knowledge of such an agency? At this stage these questions are more out of curiosity than anything else. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:22:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #42 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:41:35 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Plucking and general self defense training Allain responded to a post by Steven: >>>>>>>I don't care for this "plucking" defense because often a person will have trouble doing it against a stronger person. Someone who has been in a fight or two will not let you knee them that easily, and to reach up with your hands against his hands puts your strength against his and if he is stronger, it is difficult. I like the technique where you throw your arm over his hands and bring your weight down on the hands with your arm pit. This way, you have your weight against his hands and a smaller person has a better chance at breaking the hold. This is the defense I teach in my new video. Not that the plucking can't or won't work, it's just that I feel the other can work for more people in more situations, especially when the attacker is stronger.<<<<<<<<< Not that Allain needs me to add anything, but my advice is to always evaluate the effectiveness of self defense techniques against a much larger, stronger attacker and always train as if your opponent will always be much stronger than you. Why would a person attack you if he didn't think he could win? There are reasons such as uncontroled anger, but I advocate always training as if your attacker is much stronger than you. One of the most common problems I have seen in self defense training is that techniques are taught that are not likely or at the very least will be very difficult against a much larger and or stronger opponent. Like Allain, I don't like techniques that pit your strength against that of your opponent. I advocate using simple techniques that give you a mechanical advantage through leverage or compound and unified body movement. Danny Dunn ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:49:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Non-profit >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: MissIllona@aol.com >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Non-Profit vs Profit Schools >Mr. Fortune, >How is a non-profit school different than a profit school then if you do >gain >profit from it ? I don't understand the difference here. >Thank you for your time. >Illona >------------------------------ Non-profit is a legal designation meaning that nobody gets any extra benefit from the money. All the money we take in goes to paying rent, utilities, insurance, buying equipment, etc. We *could* even pay the instructors a salary (if we could afford it ;) as long as it was *fair* compensation for the time they spent performing the service. We can also reimburse people for things like gas for driving to school events if necessary. But if we take in any *extra* money, it cannot be distributed to *any* person, either inside or outside of the organization. But we were actually NO-profit last year. Hopefully that will change this year. :) Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:22:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: What does it profit a man.... Dear Illona et al: "...How is a non-profit school different than a profit school then if you do gain profit from it ? I don't understand the difference here..." . I share your confusion, though from a little bit different perspective. The corporation that I head is not designated as a not-for-profit. However, anything that comes in is automatically ploughed back into the bills and we routinely run at a sizeable loss. The classes I teach at the Park District are done without compensation to me. The classes I teach at the Junior College as a PT teacher produce about $700/sem. The books that I publish do not now, nor have they ever been intended to produce a profit and the project right now to distribute those books on CD-ROM will probably not produce any meanigful change in my economics. When I travel, it is at my expense and I have been known to do seminars at no cost merely as revenue builders for a school, class or club. I share this all to make a point rather than as application for Mother Theresa' old job. I think when examining the issue of not-for-profit and for-profit it is as important to understand the approach of the individual as much as the law concerning this status. From what I understand it is very possible to make quite a bit of $$$ as a not-for-profit institution and to make nearly nothing (or less) as a for-profit entity. I will submit that non-profit status (like charity) begins in the heart. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:01:12 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Thanks for the Correction Dear Mr. Cyrus: "...I would lie to coorect Mr. Simms' post that the Chicago Kido Seminar was cancelled to some other event..." Thank you for taking the time to correct my comment. I hope it is a good experience for everyone. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:05:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: HKD and Competition Shaun, I have seen quite a few HKD stylists at open tournaments over the years in the southeast. Don't know of any HKD specific tournaments though. Danny >>>>>>Could someone please enlighten me on this? I've never heard of HKD being competitive. Am I just missing something? Confused, Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:13:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Non-profit, uniforms, Aikido net Lots of good stuff to reply to. :) >From: Erik Kluzek *** snip *** >I didn't seek formal "not-for-profit" status -- is that something hard to >get? Worthwhile once you do? What kind of accounting do you have to >provide? At the beginning, you need to give them a rough guess of how much you think you'll be making for the next four (I think) years. At the end of that period, you have to go back and tell them how you did. But you also have to fill out a BUNCH of paperwork and it's the IRS so you need to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's are dotted. Luckily, we had a corporate tax person as an instructor at the time and she either knew what needed to be done or had a couple contacts who could help her. You could probably find a way to do it without hiring an accountant or whatever, but make sure you find someone who knows what they're doing. :) One major benefit to this is that people can contribute money to the organization and then be able to take it off their taxes. I have a couple family members who really support what I'm/we're doing and they give us money every year. Still from Mr. Kluzek: >I've since thought that if you tell your students you are running >"not-for-profit" >you really need to account to them where the money goes. So on at least >a quarterly basis you give an accounting of what the income and expenses >of the club were. I studied accounting in high school and college and I keep the books myself every month according to the "generally accepted principles of accounting" (or whatever). Our books are open for anyone to examine at any time. Interestingly, I can't recall a student ever asking to look at it. I give a financial report at our monthly instructor meetings, whether they want it or not. ;) I'll talk about what kind of accounting the IRS wants below... Next... >From: MissIllona@aol.com >Could you elaborate on this alittle bit more ? I thought all TKD'ers wore >the v-neck ? > >Illona Nope. I have always preferred what we call the "traditional" style uniform where each side folds in. I don't force any particular style on my students and they go about half and half, normally with women choosing v-neck and men choosing traditional. And last, but not least... >From: Ray Terry >Seems like there is a limit to the profit one can make to remain >not-for-profit. Something like $3K or $5K a tax year??? Anyone recall the >details? > >Ray Terry I don't know if there's an upper limit or not. I would think it would have to be pretty high because isn't the Red Cross non-profit? I would imagine they take in a pretty large amount of money. I know that if you don't make more than $25,000 in a year, you don't have to file any tax returns with the IRS. Since we're NOWHERE near that much, that makes our bookkeeping nice and easy. :) On a totally different note, do any d_d readers also read any aikido net lists too? Even if you don't practice aikido? Is it worth trying to join up? I'm just interested in learning whatever I can learn. :) Thanks, Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 8:48:39 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Non-profit, uniforms, Aikido net > And last, but not least... > >From: Ray Terry > >Seems like there is a limit to the profit one can make to remain > >not-for-profit. Something like $3K or $5K a tax year??? Anyone recall the > >details? > > > >Ray Terry > > I don't know if there's an upper limit or not. I would think it would have > to be pretty high because isn't the Red Cross non-profit? I would imagine > they take in a pretty large amount of money. I can never keep them straight, but non-profit and not-for-profit are not the same, right.?. One is a 503c (e.g. the USTU is 503c) and one is not. We run our firearms training as the one that is not 503c. You can clear some profit at the end of the year, but it is small. And the paperwork is much less. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:17:40 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 - reply - ------------------------------ From: "rich hodder" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:37:28 Subject: the_dojang: dojang love DANGER!!! With that said, I have to confess to being engaged to one of my students. This was quite a surprise to many of the TKD types here in Colorado and else where, given my well known views regarding marriage. I must, in my defense say that, my fiance has been a member of my school for 18 years and we have only been seeing each other seriously for about six months. She has trained with many of my instructors and is currently training for her 3rd Dan coming in February. Yes I will be at the test, but I refuse to test her, instead I will end up being the test dummy. This takes away the talk of favortism all together. Having said this, I have a question for the group. I have been practicing TKD since 1964 and I can't think of one TKD instructor that hasent been divorced at least once. Any success stories out there? (just to ease the COLD feet). Rich !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rich, I started training in 1966. My wife was one of my students as well as being a co-worker. We dated an entire two months before we were married. We are now working on our 26th year of marriage. I say working because marriage is just like the Martial Arts - you get out in ratio to what you put in. Marriage is not 50/50 as you have heard - it's is a 100% commitment by both the husband and wife. One more tip. Marriage is an institution that holds you together until you can fall in love again. We are more in love now than we have ever been and the relationship is great because she is my best friend ever. P. S. We live in Lyons, CO. Where are you located ? Jim Floyd Warrior Alliance ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 8:51:09 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: HKD and Competition > I have seen quite a few HKD stylists at open tournaments over the years in the > southeast. Don't know of any HKD specific tournaments though. There is at least one in Korea each year. I think it is run by the World Hapkido Games Federation, or something like that. I've seen some advertised here in the US. They are rare, but then I've also seen an Aikido tourny or two advertised over the years. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Kirk Lawson Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:11:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Aikido/Hapkido Patrick: First, I agree that there are many points of similarity between the two arts. What I was trying to highlight was the particular emphasis given to achieving an "off balance" in the attacker. It is my observation that an off balance is critical in Aikido technical Strategy while it's "nice but not required" in Hapkido technical strategy. As an example, let me draw your attention to these two links (Kote Gaeshi in Aikido): http://www.vision.net.au/hapkido/mpeg/cnb2.mpg (from: http://www.vision.net.au/hapkido/gallery.html) and http://members.aol.com/aikibrkly/aikido/Images/narijunanahon/koteg.gif (from: http://www.sni.net/tomiki/nariyamatekubi.html) Note in the Aikido version, the attacker is drawn slightly forward with his balance beyond his hips where as in the Hapkido version, there is less of this "off balance." Please understand that I am not saying that the Hapkido version is ineffective or that the Aikido version is more effective by default, I'm simply drawing attention to a difference in technical Strategy. My personal experience is that this is indicative of many of the Hapkido joint locks and throws. A strong, tall, athletic, bigger, whatever person would be able to effectively perform the techniques either way. For people (like me) who are less tall, big, whatever, I find that the off balance is essential and becomes more so the greater the difference is size and weight is. (more on this to Bruce). Bruce: When I say that Aikido does not teach kicks, this is something of a generalization. *Most* Aikido schools do not teach kicking. There are some styles that do include kicking as part of their Atemi. As a general rule, however, kicking is discouraged. The theory being this: Taking balance is essential and pivotal in Aikido, when you kick, you've already removed one half of your balance and make it that much easier for someone to take your balance. That being said, yes, many Aikido styles teach kicking defenses. These tend to not be taught heavily until advanced kyu (gup) ranks at the very earliest and more typically at the Dan ranks. This is because a fall during a kick is usually *much* harder and more difficult to take without injury and actually delivering a technique to a kicker is more difficult to do with control (to avoid unwanted injury to the kicker). In short, because uke just can't handle it yet. On the subject of your "Four Deportments" as relating to balance, I notice that you seem to indicate that it is considered more advanced understanding or is less often taught at any rate. Perhaps this is because of the difference in technique Strategies. As I have said, the typical Hapkido strategy that I've encountered (as related to joint locks and throws) seems to be "off balance is nice but not really required." Thus, the off balance part of the "Four Deportments" can wait till more advanced rank or perhaps is not emphasized to any but those who require it more due to advancing age or lesser stature / strength. As you say, there are many points of similarity. Once again, my intent is not to denigrate Hapkido in any way. I respect the art and it's practitioners. I only intend to point out the differences that I see. Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson --- "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it." -Samuel Adams ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 8:56:21 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #51 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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