From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #55 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 24 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 055 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Student/Teacher Relationship the_dojang: Re: Relationships in the Dojo the_dojang: Re: Loafing Students the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #49 the_dojang: Re: V-Neck and long open stretch the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 the_dojang: Other Instructors spouses, children, and etc the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #54 the_dojang: Love the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #54 the_dojang: RE: Deportments the_dojang: off balance the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #53 the_dojang: Re: Hapkido, Aikido, & Jujitsu (bit long-sory) the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:38:39 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Student/Teacher Relationship In a message dated 1/24/2001 7:52:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have also seen the same types of problems from time to time in teaching my own children. It was very difficult for them, especially when they were younger to seperate my relationship as a father, from my dojang relationship as an instructor. I think that they have felt pressure at times from just their natural desire to please me as a father. I also catch myself sometimes being a little less understanding with them than with other students. >> I gave my children to a different instructor ... and they were in another school as there weren't any other instructors in our school for them to train under. But it was worth it because we would come home and share what we learned with each other ! :-) How many have bonded to their students and do social things with them consistently ? Does this impede the teacher/student relationship you have with one another ? I find that some kids can handle this ... and others have a problem with it. What guidelines do you follow in your schools to keep it running smoothly in this area? I hope I have made myself clear on this ... I am not intending to say that we don't do things with our students ... but I have seen some schools where the teacher/student relationship was lost and they always treated the instructor as a bestfriend and not a teacher (if you know what I mean by this ... hard to describe in words ... sorry). Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:40:01 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Relationships in the Dojo In a message dated 1/24/2001 7:52:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << We have had some problems in dating teens trying to get together during our organization's regional summer camps. It has kept the assigned senior black belts busy. Sorry for the length. >> Good post, Danny, I enjoyed reading all that you had to say on the subject ! Very informative and have taken some notes here on what you said to think about for myself. Thank you. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:40:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Loafing Students In a message dated 1/24/2001 7:52:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Good idea, they also come handy when e.g. there are too few persons to hold the targets ;) >> I like this idea, too ... :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: taxlaw@inetworld.net Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:53:46 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #49 Non-profit Status--- Running a martial arts school as a non-profit poses very special procedural challenges. If these challenges are not met, it can have devastatingly negative impacts on the involved parties. Run correctly a non-profit martial arts school has some advantages. These advantages can reduce the effective cost of running the school and open up additional avenues to promote the school. The two keys are 1) that ultimate control of the school cannot be vested in those who are paid by the school and 2) that proper records and board of director's meetings are held. The primary hazardous are the additional tax authority scrutiny that non-profits endure and that the Sa Bu Nim can be ousted from the school by his or her board of directors. Non-profits can be run either as membership or non-membership entities and that also changes the logistics of how the organization must be run. Also there are many different ways a martial arts school can be qualified as a non-profit - the code section under which it qualifies also changes the internal logistics and the range of permitted activities. Deductibility of memberships and ordinary donations can vary depending on how they are structured and which code section the organization is qualified under. As a tax attorney I have represented many non-profits under audit - having seen how hard it is for individuals to run a non-profit correctly without good professional advice and training. Yours in training - Joel S. Weissler ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:43:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: V-Neck and long open stretch > Illona writes: The v-neck ones (back in my day) had a long open stretch on the sides > that I didn't like ! > I just sew them up part of the way because I did not like the long open stretch on the side either. ------------------------------ From: taxlaw@inetworld.net Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:41 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 Non-profit reply part two -- There is no limit to the positive cash flow of a non-profit. The key is what is that money used for. Yes a non-profit can provide benefits for workers -- in the same manner as any other business. Compensation (if any) for instructors including the head instructor must be reasonable and (at least for the head instructor) must be approved by the board of directors. The majority of the board must be unpaid. A financial statement for the orgianization must be submitted with its' tax return each year. The tax return must be made available to the public and in some cases, distributed to the members. Cost of setup includes an IRS 'user fee' of under $1000 plus attorney's fees. The application to become a non-profit should not be filled out by a layman. What you put on the application will greatly effect the entities future - the instructions do not prepare an individual to do it correctly. Yours in training -- Joel S. Weissler, Esq. ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:56:26 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Other Instructors spouses, children, and etc There has considerable discussion about relationships in the dojang and how people attempt to avoid any semblance of bias. How about adding to the discussion the situation where you are on a testing board and the friend, spouse, child, or etc. of another testing board member is testing. How objective can you be when you have a long term professional relationship with another board member yet you have to test/evaluate someone meaningful to them. This other board member may be sitting back congratulating themselves and how they have addressed the bias problem for themselves by having you test their friend, spouse, child and etc. but did NOT consider the pressure they have placed upon you. Comments. ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:02:04 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #54 In a message dated 1/24/2001 11:43:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/024/living/Velvet_gloves_fists_of_steelP.s html Great story, and sounds like an even greater person. >> Thanks for this ... sent it out to all my MA friends ... I like reading positive things like this about people in martial arts. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:54:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Love Mr. Dunn writes: > From her prespective, she told me later that she felt I was > harder on her than the other students. I have seen similar problems at tournaments. In this case, some judges (having intimate knowledge about their own expectations from their student) will give their own students a lower score. Sometimes, this is due to lack of confidence in making their own decision (fear of having someone think you might cheat is real). This is unfair to the student, and I always encourage fellow judges to put aside this fear before I begin competition in my ring. BTW, I see with much delight that a number of fellow practitioners have managed to cultivate a truly beautiful romantic relationship with their students, and I congratulate (and envy) you. Despite the misgivings I have about Dojang romance, I believe that this is the only place where I could find a companion. Past experience tells me that no one but a true martial artist would put up with my love affair with martial arts. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:09:32 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #54 In a message dated 1/24/2001 11:43:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It takes a pretty hardy person to stay around and "chew the fat" while the fat is melting (and my drink machine sales are GREAT). As soon as you cross the line into the dojang proper, the heat drops about 20 degrees. >> Well, because of the high cost of electricity now in California ( and gas for heating ) ... I have cut back alot on lights and heating ... and when spring/summer comes ... air conditioning will only be on the days it reaches 104 or more ( I live in the desert ). If the students want to come in T-Shirts ... they will be allowed to do so ... only if they are Positive Karate ones. So I will have to go out and purchase some more shirts before this hot summer comes! I only charge 50 cents for water here ... the sports top size ... and still some complain it is too much. For the same size in the gyms and such ... they charge a dollar ! Oh well, then they an drink at the tap then. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:34:45 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Deportments Dear Kirk: As I read you response I got the feeling that I might have confused the issue. Lets see if I can make this a bit clearer. Though I teach a traditional art, its teaching is not in a traditional manner, and this makes quite a bit of difference at least through the guep ranks to Black Belt. From that point on things develop essentially the same regardless of what Hapkido school one might attend. So certain techniques at say 7th guep in my classes may be taught at 6th guep or 8th guep in another school. However, when it comes to the material that I identify as the Deportments just about any school I have been to worth its salt seems to begin introducing this material early-on and gradually increase its emphasis relative to the philosophies of the style or the teacher. Some schools will mention displacement every so often but never quite get around to worrying about it much as long as the partner winds up on his bottom. I have, however, worked with partners whose displacement was so strong that it felt more like a check from Hockey. The same goes for mis-alignment. Some people put an tug on an arm an feel that is enough, and others damn near clothesline a guy and THEN begin their technique. I think the idea that I wanted to leave you with is that what I am describing isn't exactly a "nicety" or an affectation. But not all Hapkido styles give it the same weight. And within a particular school, say like mine, its not so much that people come in one day and we all decide to suddenly "learn" mis-alignment. Instead its emphasized increasingly as a person ascends rank such that by a particular level (2nd BB) one would expect a person to be using it regularly and effectively as an integral part of his biomechanics. I hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:00:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: off balance From day one of my HapKiDo training, it was beat into my head (literally) that there are three parts of every technique. They are: #1) a balance break, by which I would do "something" to cause my partner to think about something else other than attacking or grabbing. #2) a use of decreasing radius circles to gain an advantage (X,Y and Z axis). 3) a lowering of our center of gravity to use your body weight rather than strength to manipulate your partner to an indefenseable position. If you don't use some sort of balance break, your success level will go WAY down in practicing techniques with a partner that doesn't know what you're planning to do....J. R. West ... HapKiDo guy www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Chris Hamilton" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:09:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #53 < Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:26:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Schools in Dallas I currently train in Kuk Sool Won and will soon be moving to Dallas. Is there anyone that is famialur with the Dallas schools and could give me ideas on where to train?>> owner-kuksool-digest@list.sirius.com - The guys on the Kuk Sool list can certainly help you. I can't remember exactly how to subscribe to the list. I'm sure the moderator will contact you, if you send him an e-mail. Chris H. Han Mu Do ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:16:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido, Aikido, & Jujitsu (bit long-sory) I have found the discussion of the similarities and differences between Aikido and Hapkido very interesting and helpful. And given my limited experience I am prepared to accept that Aikido has it over many if not most Hapkido schools in terms of unbalancing one's opponent, and also, I believe, in blending with the opponent's attack, which may be a prerequisite to unbalancing. When I studied jujitsu, our jujitsu instructor encouraged his students to train in Aikido for a year to get the foot work and intricacies of movement down, then return to jujitsu. Perhaps one's Hapkido could benefit from some cross training in Aikido. However, with all due respect to Aikido, which is a wonderful art, I have some problems with Aikido which I posted on some months ago. One is that it seems to me that Aikido practitioners train against attacks that are unrealistic; these over the head chops or way over extended lunge punches, which one would never see on the street. I would love to see how an Aikidoka would defend against a boxers jab or against attacks that don't have that overextension. Second, it seems to me that the attacker is trained to move with tore, to stay in contact throughout and go with the throw. I think that this leads to an element of suggestibility on the uke's part. I think that is what explains things like one finger throws or throws where tore throws uke without even touching him or her, it is an unconscious suggestibility that results from years of subtle, unconscious shaping of behavior. A third problem is that Aikidoka often seem to throw the opponent very far, as opposed to throwing him or her close and remaining in control. My Jujitsu teacher had a friend who was an accomplished Aikidoka who was attacked, and who threw his attacker several feet. The attacker got up, pulled out a gun and shot the man who was killed. He always taught us to throw your attacker close to you and remain in control at all times and then watch your back for his friends. It seems to me that if faced with multiple attackers, the Aikidoka would have to disable the first attacker he or she puts into a joint lock, by either dislocating a joint or breaking a limb to take him out of the game so that he doesn't come back while the Aikidoka is facing the other attackers. But this may be counter to Aikido philosophy. My jujitsu Shihan used to say that it was ideal to study a hard style first, such as jujitsu or Hapkido, and then move to Aikido, with that realism under your belt. If I my comments reflect a misunderstanding of Aikido training, then I apologize and am eager to be corrected. Finally, I have noted a difference between the jujitsu I trained in and Hapkido, and I wonder if others have noticed this. It may be just a function of the style of jujitsu that I trained in. This difference is that in the jujitsu style I practice, the majority of throws and joint locks were done from the opponent punching. There were certain locks and throws done from a straight punch and jab and others from a hook or haymaker. The effort was to punch hard so that if you did not block effectively the punch would go right through. There were joint locks practiced from wrist grabs and sleeve grabs also, but much less frequent than practicing off a punch. It seems to me that in Hapkido, that ratio is reversed. Sure, there are joint locks and throws done from punches, but they are practiced much less frequently than from wrist grabs and clothing grabs. It seems to me that practicing from a wrist grab or sleeve grab comes from the fact that the Samurai would likely have his wrist or sleeve grabbed to prevent him from grabbing his weapon, and thus most of the techniques were practiced in response to such grabs. It also seems to me that grabbing one's wrist or sleeve or other article of clothing would be much less frequent in a real self defense scenario today than someone jabbing or coming in with a hay maker punch. I am curious what others on the list who are more experienced and knowledgeable about self defense would say about his. Jose' ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:22:41 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #55 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.