From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #57 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 25 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 057 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 the_dojang: Aikido/Hapkido the_dojang: Re: Mr. Boyd+ No offense taken the_dojang: Ken's Travel Log, Vol II, No 2. Cebu City Stuff ! the_dojang: Re: History of Korean Martial Arts the_dojang: Re: V-Neck and long open stretch the_dojang: RE: Chang vs Jang the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #55 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:25:59 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 In a message dated 1/24/2001 10:20:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'm sorry if this is something you've covered, Ms Illona, but what style is it that you practice? (Your note implies that its not TKD) >> It is called Shinji Garyu ... but I have a 2nd dan in TKD ... it was just many years ago that I got it. I still love anything TKD. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:29:08 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 In a message dated 1/24/2001 10:20:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Only in recent history, and only WTF practitioners. For example, ITF folks do not. >> I was ITF ... I believe it was called Han Moo Kwan ... we wore both ... but mostly the fold over kind. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:33:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #56 In a message dated 1/24/2001 10:20:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It's my opinion that I am the best person to teach her. I do realize that this doesn't work for many. It does however work for us. >> That's great ! It worked for Ernie Reyes, Sr. and Jr., too :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:29:19 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Aikido/Hapkido Dear Mr. Burdick, You wrote: >You chose video clips from the students of Jae-Nam Myung (the hapkido style >closest to aikido) and a clip from Tomiki aikido (another style with big >movements).< The choice of clips was not mine. I was comparing the two offered by Mr. Lawson. I have seen video of a seminar by one of the Hapkido Masters you mentioned, and have had the honor of training with another on occasion. I do not find my statements regarding off balancing to be in confict with their teachings. You further wrote: >I think it is a good idea to unbalance rather than break, especially in a civilian context, but it is certainly not necessary.< I do not recall indicating a "rather than". Off balance helps create the break, and increases the damage of the break, should one occur! I intentionally tried to avoid absolutes, and I see you have done the same. It does not surprise me that there are gradations regarding the importance of breaking balance in Hapkido. That said, Hapkido is the "Art of coordinated power" not the "Art of applying my power". You ask what do I mean by "Aikido typically uses Ki large, we typically use Ki small". What I mean is the amount of lead we (Hapkido) will typically accept in our partner as "off balance". I would accept as little off balance as bellybutton in front/behind of toe/heel with no residual momentum (similar to Judo?), where it appears to me that Aikido typically would like chest or head in front/behind of toe/heel with considerable momentum. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:37:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mr. Boyd+ No offense taken Mr. Boyd, responding to my initial comment, stated: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:42:05 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: My apologies Ken McD. I am sorry that you cannot understand my point. I am sorry that I apparently managed to offend you. Oh, BTW, Korea has been teaching English in schools for much, much longer than 3 years. Three years ago many schools began to offer it at earlier grades. I offered a contrary point about Korea because one of the functions of this list is to relate information about Korean culture. I have been living here since 1997. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers but navigating in Korea is not as hard as you made it sound. I was in no way arguing the merits of one Asian culture over another...> Response: First, there is no need for an apology. Moreover, I may write in a tone which reflects terse words. But, believe me after one or two San Miquels these issues are meaningless. Second, you did not offend me since anything I write is subject to critical review, which often people are easy to dish out. But, I will point out where I was coming from. I was reflecting a basic fact that in my observations Hong Kong and the Philippines are more Westernized than Korea. I also taught English to several high school students for one year in Korea. I can tell you that Korea is far behind the Philippines and Hong Kong when it comes to the English language. What does this mean ? Well, not too much if your focused solely on Korean culture. But, if there are any readers out there that want to venture to Asia but have a reservation about cultural or language barriers--there are countries available to help you ease into travel. Hence, that is the main point I was trying to make. Having lived in Pusan and Songtan, and having traveled through Korea I can tell you that it would be intimidating to those Americans or others who have not traveled there. Most of the language is Korean. Most of the signs are Korean. Many Koreans do not like Americans. If you do not know how to speak Korean or read Korean who may feel lost. On the other hand, Hong Kong and the Philippines have been heavily influenced by the English language. Hence, a traveler would have an easier time traveling in these respective countries. This is the essence of my comments. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:00:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Ken's Travel Log, Vol II, No 2. Cebu City Stuff ! Date: 25 Jan 01 Time: 7:10 pm Location: Banawan, Cebu, Philippines We left in the Jeepney at 7 am and hit the tennis courts. My body has adjusted to the climate and jet lag. My "strokes" are getting better. Then went to the Cebu City Swimming Pool, and olympic sizd pool. I did about 15 laps and enjoyed the time. We went downtown and there are a Kaloidoscope (sic) of activity. Vendors cooking chickens and Lechon (Pigs) on the sidewalk, vendors selling various goods. Jeepneys being made in stainless steel and galvanized metal. Welders working right on the road and street. Poverty interwined with the well to do; street markets and poverty stricken children selling trinkets as you stop by the stop lights. We visited the Baseline gym which housed a workout area, an Aikido school, and a TKD school. We wanted to meet Master Tian a friend of the family who is an Aikido master but we missed him. Went to the mall. Do you know they have an ice skating rink in the mall. Talk about juxtaposition. Discussed beach property a local artist may sell. Would be a good stopping off point for other Asian countries. Arranged to have a private Arnis/Esrima lesson this Saturday in the AM. The U.S. dollar goes a long way here. For example, the current rate is 49 pesos to one dollar. A San Miguel beer is 40 Pesos. Figure that out in U.S. dollars. Man, I could dig sitting on the Cebu beaches with a couple of San Miquels and using the U.S. Dollar. Oh, English is also spoken here. The Filipinos generally like Americans. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:46:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: History of Korean Martial Arts Jose: >> This is related to a previous discussion that I participated in about the history of and its connection to Hapkido. Someone from another list recommended the following web site: << Oh yeah? I stopped recieving the mails when I started posting here :-) >> The discussion on this website is very good, scholarly and intellectually honest. It answers many of my questions and confirms many of my doubts about previous Hapkido Masters who have moved on to invent their own styles and invent a history to go with it. << I think the website is none of the above, could you post what you find in the site? Because personally I think it's written by a bitter old man. But of course that's because I'm a brainwashed cult member hehe. Talking about history - Bruce I just saw your letter in Black Belt Magazine. It was sold out when I came back to get it so could you please post it here also? I have a few comments :-) Carsten Jorgensen Hwarangdo@email.com Copenhagen, Denmark - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:59:03 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: V-Neck and long open stretch We wear those too. I kind of like wearing a t-shirt (wife-beater flavor typically) underneath. It not only helps hide my lame, wobbly, fatty side things, but it also helps prevent hogu-chafe. - --- begin quoted message --- From: "Wallace, John" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:32:10 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: V-Neck and long open stretch I can't say I like the v-neck tops either. The open stretch is particularly well suited to displaying my shocking-pale love handles, along with a nice patch of road-rash on the left one. - - -JW 3rd gup, TKD - --- end quoted message --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin www.wuma.com sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:18:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Chang vs Jang Dear Mark: "...Is that Master Gedo Chang? If so..Id love to hear the training history for both he and Master Wollmerhauser...." No, I am familiar with M Gedo Chang here in Illinois, but the person I was referring to was GM Jang, In Mok. M Gedo Chang has had a Hapkido school here in Illinois for quite sometime. I had an opportunity to train in his Main Street school quite a few years ago. Apparently hes' one of those people that students either think the world of or don't care for at all. There are quite a few people circulating in my area who report having had training experiences with him but didn't stay with him. The reasons always seem a little vague and non-specific. For my part I am not above ringing him up and seeing if he will sit with me to share his training history in as much as my Korean Language classes take me into his backyard on a weekly basis. In the matter of M Wollmerhauser I have not had much luck contacting him directly. I have had it affirmed that he has been a student of Dr. Park who currently resides in Florida. It would also help to have additional information on Dr. Park. Mr. St Armand was able to provide some clarification to material on his website (and here's a 'thank you' for that assistance). It would be worth my while to contact Dr. Park directly if anyone has contact info. In the meantime feel free to chip in anything, or you can contact me in private. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Kirk Lawson Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 9:53:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #55 "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" wrote: > Dear Kirk: > > As I read you response I got the feeling that I might have > confused the > issue. Lets see if I can make this a bit clearer. [snip] > its not so much that people come in one day and we all decide to > suddenly "learn" mis-alignment. Instead its emphasized > increasingly as a > person ascends rank such that by a particular level (2nd BB) one would > expect a person to be using it regularly and effectively as > an integral part > of his biomechanics. I hope this helps. > Yes it does. Thank you. It means that what I suspected was true, that the HKD guys I worked out with were representative of only one subset of HKD. Peace favor your sword (on to the next) "J. R. West" wrote: > From day one of my HapKiDo training, it was beat into my head > (literally) > that there are three parts of every technique. [snip] > If you don't use > some sort of > balance break, your success level will go WAY down in > practicing techniques > with a partner that doesn't know what you're planning to > do....J. R. West J.R., Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. Peace favor your sword (on to the next) JSaportajr@aol.com wrote: > I have found the discussion of the similarities and > differences between > Aikido and Hapkido very interesting and helpful. And given my limited > experience I am prepared to accept that Aikido has it over > many if not most > Hapkido schools in terms of unbalancing one's opponent, and Perhaps this is so, perhaps it is only so for a subset of HKD styles. > also, I believe, > in blending with the opponent's attack, which may be a > prerequisite to > unbalancing. Depends on who you talk to. Typcially, "blending" is the process of evading the attack, the controlling it without ending it. > When I studied jujitsu, our jujitsu instructor > encouraged his > students to train in Aikido for a year to get the foot work > and intricacies > of movement down, then return to jujitsu. I have heard of this too. Having taken TSD, I can recommend a bit of cross training for other striking schools. Many of the Aikido (HKD?) concepts make very nice additions to the arsenal. > Perhaps one's Hapkido could benefit > from some cross training in Aikido. And vice versa. > However, with all due respect to Aikido, which is a > wonderful art, I > have some problems with Aikido which I posted on some months > ago. One is that > it seems to me that Aikido practitioners train against > attacks that are > unrealistic; This is a common complaint and a common shortcoming in many dojo's, not just Aikido. > these over the head chops or way over extended > lunge punches, > which one would never see on the street. Two reasons for this. First, harkens back to sword techniques which were integrel to the formation of Aikido and second, because those practicioners never move beyond the basic attack. Then again, remember, Aikido is many different things to many different people. > I would love to see > how an Aikidoka > would defend against a boxers jab or against attacks that > don't have that > overextension. I have heard this request of many, many martial arts. Note the thread over in RMA on "Is Boxing the ultimate Marial Art?" If it makes you feel better, I know of some Aikidoka who use boxing style strikes as the basis for their atemi. > Second, it seems to me that the attacker is > trained to move > with tore, to stay in contact throughout and go with the > throw. I think that Yes. Many Aikido schools are critisized for over cooperation from uke. What can I tell you? [snip] > A third > problem is that Aikidoka often seem to throw the opponent > very far, as > opposed to throwing him or her close and remaining in > control. Sometime valuble, sometimes not. There are many pins and controles in Aikido, varying by style (of course). > My Jujitsu > teacher had a friend who was an accomplished Aikidoka who was > attacked, and > who threw his attacker several feet. The attacker got up, > pulled out a gun > and shot the man who was killed. I have heard this story before. Assuming that it is true (I have no reason to doubt you), it is a rare case, at best. Further, the attacker could have pulled the gun at any point in the confrontation. Were the gun used before body contact it would mean little whether or not you intend to end with a close throw and control. Gun-Fu beats both Aikido and HKD. [snip] > Aikidoka would have to disable the first attacker he or she > puts into a joint > lock, by either dislocating a joint or breaking a limb to > take him out of the > game so that he doesn't come back while the Aikidoka is > facing the other > attackers. But this may be counter to Aikido philosophy. Only some people's interpretation of it. I doubt it would have occured to Usheiba, Tomiki, or Shioda Sensei that this could be counter to Aikido philosophy. > My jujitsu Shihan > used to say that it was ideal to study a hard style first, > such as jujitsu or > Hapkido, and then move to Aikido, with that realism under > your belt. This is what I did (I came from TSD). In fact, this is what many do. I've noticed that there seems to be a great deal of dual and cross training between Aikido and Philipino Martial Artists / Indonesian Martial Artists (Kali, Escrima, Silat, etc.) > If I my > comments reflect a misunderstanding of Aikido training, then > I apologize and > am eager to be corrected. No. Not a misunderstanding precisely. Remember, "Aikido" covers a broad range of styles, some of which do things others of which do not. When possible, it is more accurate to refer to the style of Aikido such as Tomiki or Yoshinkan and then to the specific school or instructor. Since this is not always possible... *shrug* what can I tell ya? Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:16:27 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #50 > From: "rich hodder" > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:37:28 > Subject: the_dojang: dojang love > > DANGER!!! > With that said, I have to confess to being engaged to one of my students. > This was quite a surprise to many of the TKD types here in Colorado and else > where, given my well known views regarding marriage. I must, in my defense > say that, my fiance has been a member of my school for 18 years and we have > only been seeing each other seriously for about six months. She has trained > with many of my instructors and is currently training for her 3rd Dan coming > in February. Yes I will be at the test, but I refuse to test her, instead I > will end up being the test dummy. This takes away the talk of favortism all > together. Having said this, I have a question for the group. I have been > practicing TKD since 1964 and I can't think of one TKD instructor that > hasent been divorced at least once. Any success stories out there? (just to > ease the COLD feet). > Rich > _________ So is your question just addressed to TKD instructors who married a student of theirs, or married martial artists in general? Seems to me from all the posts that there are alot of successful TKD instructor marriages. As for cold feet, who doesn't with all the statistics showing marriages don't last. However, for every Liz Taylor, there's a Jessica Tandy. I would say that the longer you know someone and if you start out as friends, the higher probability of a successful marriage. I am a MA but my spouse is not. We were friends for 2 years, dated for 6 years and are doing great in our 7th year of marriage. Good luck and enjoy. Spunky > ________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 9:11:51 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #57 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.