From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 25 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 058 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: BLACK BELT Letter the_dojang: American Akido? Re: the_dojang: RE: BLACK BELT Letter the_dojang: Kukkiwon Re: the_dojang: Kukkiwon the_dojang: belt info the_dojang: Re: History of Korean Martial Arts (sticking my neck out) the_dojang: Re: Unbalancing in Hapkido versus Aikido the_dojang: Biting and pinching question the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:08:21 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: BLACK BELT Letter Dear Carsten: I would be glad to, but I should tell you that the letter that was printed in BLACK BELT magazine was edited quite a bit from what I sent in. I can scan a copy of the letter as it is published, but I am left with the feeling that the one in BLACK BELT does not really say what I wanted to communicate. Perhaps with Rays' permission I will see if I can locate the disk with the original letter and post that instead. I suppose, ideally I could post both so that people can appreciate the difference. Does this make sense? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:12:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: American Akido? With all the talk of Akido and Hapkido, I was wondering if anyone has heard of "American Akido"? There is a school in the neighborhood, and American Akido is boldly listed, but others are in fine print: Judo, Karate, grappling, etc. Just curious if anyone has any information, or could point to any information about American Akido. Thank you, Mark Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 9:44:46 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: BLACK BELT Letter > Perhaps with Rays' permission I will see if I can locate the disk with the > original letter and post that instead. Fine by me... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:20:43 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Kukkiwon Dear sirs and ma'ams, I am trying to find information of the organizational structure of the Kukkiwon. Does anyone have information or an internet link? I am looking for such information as: charter, organizational chart, election of officers, and bylaws. Is this information available? Thanks in advance, Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 9:49:35 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Kukkiwon > I am trying to find information of the organizational structure of the > Kukkiwon. Does anyone have information or an internet link? I am looking for > such information as: charter, organizational chart, election of officers, > and bylaws. Is this information available? You might check some of the links available at http://www.martialartsresource.com esp the links to the KTA, the WTF, and What is the Kukkiwon. That -might- answer some of your questions. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:05:52 PST Subject: the_dojang: belt info Someone was asking about the belt. From the KTA's website... Ray In every day life, belt is addressed as horitti or yodae (meaning waist belt). In the dichotomy of the human body of head, waist and legs, waist is at the center of the three. Tying the belt means the willpower to organize the self and appearance. In Taekwondo practice, tti(belt) is necessary art along with upper garment and trousers. It is a part of a trinity of the jacket, pants and the belt. Ttis are divided into three categories for the level of the achievement as uniforms are, such as color belt, p'um belt (red-black), and black belt. The concept of the trinity in the Eastern philosophy is the most fundamental in the belief of the universe, which they regard as being composed of the heaven, earth and people. It is the source of all life. The trinity concept is the essential part of Ch'onbugyong. Most of all, Koreans regard people as the most valuable. The example of the philosophy is in the Taekwondo uniform. The upper garment of the uniform equals the heaven : the trousers the earth : the belt the person. A person, in Korean belief, is a micro universe. Tti has five colors : white, yellow, blue, red and black, The primary colors are yellow, blue and red. The white and black are from the philosophy of Yin(um) and Yang : meaning he sun and moon, day and night, beginning and ending. The meaning of the five colors can found in the theory of Um-yang Oheang Sol. Um-yang has been understood as the ultimate principle of cosmic order that enables production of all life forms that act and react. Um-yang Oheang Sol consists of the theory of Um-yang that explains the harmony of Yin(Um) and yang, and the theory of of Ohaeng Sol that describes the birth and death of all lives through interaction of the five components such as fire, water, wood, metal and soil. And the north, south, cast, west and center are called Obangsaek. In the human body, the five elements are equal to heart, kidney, lung, liver and spleen. The five colors in the Taekwondo uniform are based on the principle of Ohaeng-ogi. these colors are widely used in Korean lives in design, construction and clothes. Taekwondo tti system starts from the 9th kup and ends at the 9th tan. Nine is the sum of the five components, the heaven, the earth, Yin and Yang, The kup system in Taekwondo descends from 9 to 1 whereas the tan system ascends from 1 to 9. This system stems from the eastern belief that all life forms descend from the heaven, live on the earth, return to where they came from. In the decimal system, 9 is also the highest number. The Taekwondo system is designed according to the principle of Ohaeng. Practitioners can develop the internal ki(energy) through the process of collecting and dispersing energy within the body. The five different energy formats(ogi), then, can be developed. The ki is the spring of a constant new life source. In typing the belt around the waist, the two ends meet, after two rounds, at the center of the stomach called Tanjon. Then the belt will make triangle shape to complete the knot. The shape of the triangle denotes the oneness of a person. The meaning of this ceremonial process is to collect all energy within and without into the Tanjon so that the practitioners can utilize the ki in the application of techniques. Traditionally, Tojang means the place of awakening. That is pollable by practicing the collecting and dispersing the energy freely through techniques, developing the inner energy to create harmony and order, arriving at the awakened self, and finally attaining the enlightenment - the big meeting with the big self. It is essential for Taekwondo students to take special care of the uniform. The practice requires strict order, and the order comes from the respect of seniority of the belts. The more respect the practitioner has to the significance of the belt, the more serious he/she becomes toward the training of the art. That will consequently lead him/her to the bigger self-enlightenment. A beginner begins from a white belt. The white color in Korean history has a great significance. When Tangun, who was the son of Hwanung, founded Korea under the name of Choson, the name was based on the spirit of worshiping the sun(symbolizing brightness). White color means birth or beginning (the ultimate source). It is the central color of the three primary colors and a base of all. That connotes the beginning as well as the end which is another beginning of a new start: everlasting recurrence of life and death. Yellow symbolizes a new birth, blue rebirth, red passion, and black completion. The five belt colors show the regroups process of practice and finally arriving at the completion of the big-self. The belt system in Taekwondo training has a significance not only in the philosophical comprehension of the art, but also as a way of life. It can never be overemphasized how important it is to cultivate proper etiquette to accomplish the ultimate goal of training the art of Taekwondo. ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:55:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: History of Korean Martial Arts (sticking my neck out) Dear Mr. Jorgensen Your comments about the author of the website that I referred to stir my curiosity. I would be interested to hear your more detailed comments or review of his positions as stated on this website. What I found compelling was not the personal history between he and others in the Hwarangdo organization. I did not see the bitterness in this essay but perhaps your ear is more tuned to it based on prior experience with the author. What was compelling to me was the argument advanced by Mr. Young in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts, a peer reviewed scholarly journal. I will paste bellow two of the passages that I found compelling from this web site: <> [And] ... <> I have heard the same argument made by other historians of Korean martial arts. Herb Perez wrote a similar argument, he wrote it in collaboration with a professor of history at a Korean University, in a scathing series on the history of Taekwondo claimed by most Korean Masters in Black Belt Magazine. I suspect, and I could be wrong but humans must base judgments on the information they have, and my judgments are open to revision, that nothing resembling Hwarangdo or with the joint locks of Hapkido existed in Korea before Choi Young Sool returned from Japan. Then a variety of Hapkido or Yawara or YooSool schools branched out from that. Lee, Joo Bang was primarily a Hapkido master. He also probably trained in some other martial art such as the Kung Fu that were being taught in Korea. He then blended these systems into his system which he called Hwarangdo. Im sure its a great system, Id loved to study it (though I doubt I would be welcome in their dojangs while holding this opinion). But I suspect that the long lineage clamed for Hwarangdo is mythologic. I received a number of private emails since we last touched on this issue by prominent practitioners of Hapkido that this opinion is wide spread. Other wise, it seems to me an incredible coincidence that Hwarangdo and Hapkido would have such similar joint locks and movements and yet have independent histories. No offense or disrespect to you, but let me state this strongly. What a coincidence that Lee, Joo Bang is known to have been a long time student of and Master of Hapkido, comes out with an art that looks just like Hapkido at least in terms of its joint locks, and yet this art has a history completely independent of Hapkido. This is exactly the claim he makes in the last Black Belt Magazine interview, and I simply find it not credible. Hwanrangdo and Modern Hapkido seem much more similar to me in terms of the application of joint locks than Hapkido and other similar grappling systems such as Chinese Chin-na or even Japanese Aikijitsu. So this makes the coincidence of their similarity yet independent history or origins even more incredible. I think that the same arguments made above would apply to KukSool Won. I think this debate is very important and fundamental, not in terms of the history of Hwarangdo, but more the debate about whether there were or were not organized survivors of the ancient fighting arts of Korea, or whether modern Korean fighting arts, Taekwondo (and the various Kwans that went into its formation) and Hapkido, and all that have branched from these arts, are derivative from Japanese and Okinowan arts introduced to Korea in the modern era. This is the question. I don't know the answer but I am leaning to the later given what I have read thus far. Respectfully, Jose' ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:07:21 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Unbalancing in Hapkido versus Aikido I have a sense that there is a difference between the unbalancing that Hapkido practitioners are describing and that which Aikido practitioners are referring to. The Hapkido folks seem to describe a strike or something that takes the person off balance, but may actually be more of a distraction that then allows the joint lock to be applied. My sense is, and I could be totally off on this sense I have only read about and watched Aikido, that in Aikido they are referring to a different, maybe more fundamental kind of unbalancing. Here the unbalancing means keeping your center and extending your center into the opponent's center and thus throwing or displacing your opponent off his or her center. This is different from a slap or strike that might distract the opponent enough to open a window that allows for a joint lock. I could be totally off base with this, but if this perception is accurate then I submit that Hapkido does not focus as much on this sense of unbalancing that I have described in relation to Hapkido, whereas it is central to Hapkido. One of the jujitsu blackbelts I trained with was also an Aikido blackbelt, and he talked a lot about extending your center and displacing your opponent's center in a way that I don't hear much in Hapkido. Jose ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:21:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Biting and pinching question I was glancing through a martial arts mag at the local bookstore, and noticed an ad for a Filipino art that involved biting, pinching, and some other (seemingly) schoolyard technique that evades me right now. It proclaimed to be an almost lost art passed to Don Insanato (I hope I spelled that correctly) and the video you could purchase was "approved" by Mr. Insanato (once again, I hope I did not butcher the spelling). Is this for real? Sounds like it might be a codified version of Mr. Buresse's "going Fluffy". I really get a kick out of the ads in these magazines. There are more ultimate, unbeatable, realistic, combat, street effective, lost, found, etc etc etc ad infinitum, ad naseum martial arts than you can shake a nunchuck at. Must be many millions spent each year on these videos, books and etc. I would be really interested to know how many of these purchases actually lead to learning. It reminds me of all the fad diets some people try and never lose a pound... Also, on the subject of knives (we were on that subject a few months back) a friend of mine showed me a real slick little unit. It was a "balisong" made by "Benchmade". Opened with the touch of a button. Is this one of those illegal to carry/own knives (I'd call it a switchblade, but I cut myself with the butter knife so what do I know?)? He was a little vague about where he got it. Thanks for listening, Dave Weller, student WTF TKD "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:44:38 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.