From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #59 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 25 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 059 In this issue: the_dojang: Distance To Class Too Far? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 the_dojang: Re: Aikido/Hapkido the_dojang: Re: Student/Teacher Relationship the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #57 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 the_dojang: Hapkido compared and contrasted to Aikido the_dojang: Jun Tong Mu Sool the_dojang: Origin of Hwarangdo; Fact or Fiction Re: the_dojang: Origin of Hwarangdo; Fact or Fiction the_dojang: ping the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rich" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:23:58 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Distance To Class Too Far? Hi all, I have found a Kuk Sool Won school, which is about 20 miles away (30 min drive from my house) and was wondering how far people on this list have to travel to their respective schools? Does anyone think a 30 min drive is too far? Cheers. Rich. ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:42:31 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 Ray, I tried the link to "What is the Kukkiwon" but it appeared to be broken. Just tried it again. I get a windoze 10060 error -- connection refuesed. Thanks, Robert Martin > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 9:49:35 PST > Subject: Re: the_dojang: Kukkiwon > > > I am trying to find information of the organizational structure of the > > Kukkiwon. Does anyone have information or an internet link? I am looking for > > such information as: charter, organizational chart, election of officers, > > and bylaws. Is this information available? > > You might check some of the links available at > > http://www.martialartsresource.com > > esp the links to the KTA, the WTF, and What is the Kukkiwon. That -might- > answer some of your questions. > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:50:09 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Aikido/Hapkido > Perhaps one's Hapkido could benefit from some cross training in Aikido. Definitely. For a couple of weeks, I had an opportunity to work out on the mats with some Aikido people. These were rather informal classes with us teaching them TKD, Eskrima & HKD based Hosinsul and with them showing us their techniques. What really made me upset was the fact they picked the TKD moves far quicker than we did with their stuff... ;) > However, with all due respect to Aikido, which is a wonderful art, I > have some problems with Aikido which I posted on some months ago. One is > that it seems to me that Aikido practitioners train against attacks that > are unrealistic; these over the head chops or way over extended lunge > punches, which one would never see on the street. I would love to see how > an Aikidoka would defend against a boxers jab or against attacks that > don't have that overextension. Sensei Karol Matuszczak, Aikido 4th Dan from Poland, once asked GM Christian Tissier from France about Aikido applications in self-defense. GM Tissier asked if he trained any other style than Aikido and the answer was Judo and boxing. So GM Tissier replied: "Then you should know that you can`t catch a jab with nikyo!" (Aikido lock). But... on the other hand, I sam GM Tissier in action and I definitely wouldn`t like to be his opponent on the street. What really impresses me in Aikido are the fluid motions, the evasion movements, the flow. I believe they have great self-defence applications. > Second, it seems to me that the attacker is > trained to move with tore, to stay in contact throughout and go with the > throw. I think that this leads to an element of suggestibility on the > uke's part. I think that is what explains things like one finger throws or > throws where tore throws uke without even touching him or her, it is an > unconscious suggestibility that results from years of subtle, unconscious > shaping of behavior. I`m definitely not trained to move with tori. Moreover, while training with the Aikido people, I often asked the question "what if the attacker won`t move this way" and opposed the actions of the tori. Most of the times, the result was a shortened version of the lock, much more similar to the Hapkido style. None of us was master of the given style, but we often did a kind of "brainstorming" while practicing a technique: "OK, looks great, now try to do something when the opponent resists. It was a great learning experience. I agree that many times the Aikido techniques shown during the demonstration are something like Hanbon Kyorugi in Taekwondo: you know what you do, you know what your opponent will be doing, let`s make it look great. But the high falls and speed throws are not everything in Aikido, or at least I think so from my limited experience. > A third problem is that Aikidoka often seem to throw > the opponent very far, as opposed to throwing him or her close and > remaining in control. Yes, but there are also several very nasty controlling holds... I think that it often depends on the style and master of Aikido. Just like Taekwondo or Hapkido, Aikido is not a single entity. There are differences in techniques, tactics and applications. And again, just like a certain person in an old Polish novel said: "I await the opinion of all you sirs and madams, and I`m not thinking I`m free from being wrong". Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:18:49 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Student/Teacher Relationship > How many have bonded to their students and do social things with them > consistently ? Does this impede the teacher/student relationship you have > with one another ? > > I find that some kids can handle this ... and others have a problem with > it. What guidelines do you follow in your schools to keep it running > smoothly in this area? Hi Illona, that`s a good point. I believe it`s hard to describe these guidelines precisely. I think the most important thing is to keep this "red line" consistently. I can do a lot of social things with my student, however they still do know that there is a line they can`t cross. The attitude in my classes is rather informal, but my students know that the worst thing that can happen to them is to make me upset during a class ;) It`s sometimes hard to keep this relationship during our summer training camps, where the atmosphere is even more than informal, despite the fact that the classes are 3 times a day and very demanding. We usually have to give some "signals" at the very beginning of each camp to those who will try to cross the "red line" and that`s good enough. Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:32:36 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #57 In reply to: << As for cold feet, who doesn't with all the statistics showing marriages don't last >> -spunkykvf@yahoo.com Statistics actually show that couples who have a hobby in common are 50% more likely to stay together...check the Bureau of Statistics! Kudos to all the married Martial Artists, especially those that train together... ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:55:16 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #58 In a message dated 1/25/01 3:26:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am trying to find information of the organizational structure of the Kukkiwon. >> http://www.academictaekwondo.com/kukkiwon.htm Hope this helps...seems to answer your question - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:09:40 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido compared and contrasted to Aikido Dear Jose, It may be a small thing, but on my part I don't desire to get into a Hapkido vs Aikido mentality. I respect all other MAs too much. You wrote >I have a sense that there is a difference between the unbalancing that Hapkido practitioners are describing and that which Aikido practitioners are referring to....< So far I have been talking about physical balance. However in my studies of Hapkido, we do touch on the concept of high, middle and low centers and their disruption. IMHO this discussion of unbalancing is difficult enough without adding the concept of interruption of Ki transfer from the cosmos. However since I mentioned it, you might infer I practice it! Can "unbalancing a center" be achieved by a throw, twist, punch, kick, step, kiap, word, breath, look, or post on the Internet? I believe so. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jon David Payne" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:12:34 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Jun Tong Mu Sool Chris, Can you tell us about your style? I first thought you wrote "Tukong Moosul" which I studied under GM Yi Wonik in Austin TX back in the 80's. Jon David Payne ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:31:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Origin of Hwarangdo; Fact or Fiction I am compelled to chime in on this subject for a couple of reasons. One is my first "exposure" to TKD history which talked about how long the lineage was and how it stemmed back to the infamous Hwarang warriors of Silla. Because of the colorful history that of TKD, I decided to investigate some of the gaps that were presented to me such as the many times that Korean martial arts went "underground" and then emerged with new systems. Behold, I was amazed to find out that TKD was not a 2000 year old art after all, (go figure), but a Korean version of Japanese karate. So why couldn't hwarangdo follow a similar path? I don't know. I just got through downloading a whole bunch of pages of Korean history. A project I have in mind is to study the areas of Korean history and compare it to the hwarangdo history. This is for my own curiosity more than anything else. Another reason for my to take up cyberspace with these writings is to come in an indirect defense of Mst. Duggan. I have trained with Mst. De Alba who was mentioned in Mst. Duggan's report. He, like Duggan, is a "renegade" of the Hwarangdo Asso. However, when training with him you would never have thought that he was rebeling against SGM. Lee. He gave him full credit for his training. Mst. Duggan seems to do the same. It seems this animosity lies on the side of SGM. Lee. This may be a cultural thing, of losing face. So I would have to disagree in saying that the letter was from a ranting of an old man. I am not sure if Mst. Jorgensen has ever had the opprotunity to train or talk with either Mst. De Alba or Mst. Duggan. If you haven't, then can you honestly pass judgement on hear-say? The last reason for the chime is to bring up the usual question; Does the history make the art effective? I have seen Mst. De Alba. He is an excellent martial artist. He was a student of SGM. Lee, so this tells me, regardless if Hwarangdo was developed by aliens, that art of Hwarangdo is quite effective. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:37:47 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Origin of Hwarangdo; Fact or Fiction > same. It seems this animosity lies on the side of > SGM. Lee. This may be a cultural thing, of losing > face. So I would have to disagree in saying that the > letter was from a ranting of an old man. I am not > sure if Mst. Jorgensen has ever had the opprotunity to > train or talk with either Mst. De Alba or Mst. Duggan. I would have to agree with what you say about Michael De Alba. He is a great guy, very unassuming. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:54:58 PST Subject: the_dojang: ping > I tried the link to "What is the Kukkiwon" but it appeared to be broken. > > Just tried it again. I get a windoze 10060 error -- connection refuesed. Looks like the worldsport site is down. A ping of 213.219.11.200 results in 100% packet loss. Try again tomorrow. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:12:11 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #59 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.