From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 30 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 069 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Chilled cups? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review the_dojang: Re: Kids and Guns/Knife Training the_dojang: numb thigh the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 the_dojang: Children's HKD curriculm Re: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review the_dojang: Re: Free Sparring, Competition Sparring, and Contact the_dojang: Hapkido Lite the_dojang: Responding to "A Question of Balance" the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:54:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Chilled cups? > From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:20:24 EST > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #66 > > In a message dated 1/29/01 2:27:25 PM Central Standard Time, > the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > << Would have you felt the same way if you had been injured by the kick? > This > is irresponsible. You may now remember to wear your cup, but there are > less > abusive ways to get the message across. > > Kerry >> > guys, chill out. This was back in 1976 and I said these kinds of lessons > are > gone, and for the best. I was merely sharing what is now a funny incident > in > my martial art history. > gary > > Yes, indeed you did, but I believe that was after I posted the above. I'm glad the teaching situation changed, but I maintain that the approach was abusive. My friends will tell you I have a hard time staying serious, but I see nothing funny about this. Kerry WTF TKD ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:02:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 Martin Price I use a paving stone. Grab either a brick or a paving stone from your local home store, along with a sponge, and some cloth rope. Put the sponge on the stone, and wrap the rope around them both firm but with some give. Hit with your striking tool lightly at first and after the strike put on some pressure for a second or two, then repeat. After a week or two tighten up the rope a bit and go through the process again. After a time you can take the sponge off and just hit the brick. John Murphy A-3-756 ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:11:22 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review Hey Ray when did you review the Gunting? Last time I talked to Bram and the last time he to talked to Sal at Spyderco there have been zero, I repeat, zero reports from their reviewers that the compression lock failed. So I was wondering if you reviewed it before production. Now as to your other reasons for disliking the knife; well to each his own - that's what I like about America :) BTW for my own gratification what grips did you not like the feel with? Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: hogwldfltr@cs.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:14:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Kids and Guns/Knife Training wrote: > My only hesitancy is whether or not to teach kids defenses against weapons > (particularly knife and gun).  I asked this on the digest a couple of weeks > ago, but no one responded. Hello Mo, I am curious why this is a question for you? From my point of view, kids are more likely to run into weapons then adults are. I would believe that they deserve to know how to defend against weapons. I have know experience in training them and seeing how they respond unfortunately although I've seen kids do knife drills in TKD before. Best regards, Lee Tucson ------------------------------ From: Dominic Mitchell Date: 30 Jan 2001 11:19:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: numb thigh Hi, last Wednesday I think I trained harder than usual --- I do not think that the session was any harder than usual. I only realized after the session was over that I had trained harder than usual. I had no more energy left. It took me quite a while to recover. To the point, since that day I am feeling my right thigh numb. Although, I have trained in different sport for over 14 years (jogging, weight training, swimming) with 1 year and half of TKD, this is the first time that I feel this. Is it something normal? How long does it usually last? Thanks, Dominic. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:03:00 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 Dear Ron: "....A while ago there was mention of the "original" HKD curriculum, and I've kinda been intrigued with this subject recently. I know that it's a "slightly" controversial subject....but I'm curious about Choi Yong Sul's original curriculum and the original KHA curriculum. Does anyone have a written outline of either or both?....." I don't know if this will help or hurt but let me share with you that I had been attempting to do research based on a "curriculum" approach in comparing Hapkido with Daito-ryu and ran into quite a bit of trouble. Apparently (per sources at AIKIDO JOURNAL) OS Sokaku Takeda did not teach a "curriculum". In fact it is reported by a couple of his students that his philosophy was "not to teach the same technique twice." Apparently this came from a fear of becoming over-analytical and thus fostering opportunities for students to develop counters to the techniques (Don't ask me. I don't make the news, I just report it.). By way of extension, then, GM Choi seems to have continued this tradition and also limited the amount of exposure he gave to his students, performing the technique only once or twice per class. I share this because the idea of a "curriculum" for the Daito-ryu was more of an effort of OS Sokaku Takedas' son, the late OS Tokkimune Takeda. Both he and S Kondo were heavily invested in organizing the Daito-ryu techniques. On the Korean side GM Ji and Kimm seem to have done a good job of at least cataloguing the techniques. However, since the Korean approach is just a bit more situation specific than the Japanese, there is a little bit more latitude for using one technique over another for say a wrist grab or a choke from behind. I think you would have a little more success in comparing the manner in which particular individuals have organized their techniques (say GM Ji vs GM Kim) and then compare according to biomechanic or the way the body is used vs the way the technique is taught. Just some thoughts on a rainy Chicago morning, Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Children's HKD curriculm A question for all those who teach Children's HKD. Could any of you share your curriculm that you use when teachings a kids' class of HKD? I have tried in the past to get my kids interested in martial arts and they just don't seem to want to learn, thought they love to play it. I have been mostly taking them into TKD classes when that might have been the problem. They love to tumble around, so maybe HKD may be the direction to go. Any information would be appreciated. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:53:27 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review > Hey Ray when did you review the Gunting? ?? seemed like it was within the last 9 or 10 months. Can't recall exactly right now. > Last time I talked to Bram and the > last time he to talked to Sal at Spyderco > there have been zero, I repeat, zero reports from their reviewers that the > compression lock failed. That is good news. I may request another one then (even if I don't carry it everyday I like to have different models in my collection and I returned the ones we had problems with). I VERY much like the lines of it, reminiscent of the Jot Singh Khalsa model (but the curve on the JSK grip makes it a bit too short/tight for my hand). Yes, I am difficult to please... :) Now let me say some good things about it... Don't mean to sound so negative. The idea of two training versions of this model, both the open -and- closed positions, are a great idea. That along with the training video tape (which I have not viewed) are excellent ideas given the unique design of this model. Is the videotape available yet? > what I like about America :) BTW for my own gratification what grips did > you not like the feel with? e.g. an earth grip with the edge inward. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:44:09 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Free Sparring, Competition Sparring, and Contact >For all you kickers, I know in the past it seems we have all >talked about whether we liked WTF or point sparring for competition, and I >know >everyone has their preferences. However, I am wondering how you feel about >free >sparring as opposed to just sparring by competition rules. > >More specifically, if you recognize ja yu dae ryun as seperate from shi hap >dae >ryun, how do you divide the time spent on each percentage in your class >overall. > Well, my instructor usually runs sparring in class with the following rules. Target areas are from the waist up, the front of the torso, and include the entire head. No hitting below the belt. Sparring equipment is mandatory for all clored belts (at least punches, if not both hand and foot gear). >Secondly, do the contact levels differ for the competition sparring vs. >freesparring? And if you use contact during freesparring, how much and how >do >you graduate the contact level for gups and black belts for that matter? In >other words, do you have specific levels of contact allowed at specific >ranks? Well, even with safety equipment on the lower belts (I'd say up to blue belt, or 4th gup) are supposed to have no contact. Around 4th gup and up light contact is allowed although control of technique is always emphasized. At black belt level there are a variety of contact levels. Depending on how you and your partner want to spar, contact can range from non-contact, to light contact, to somewhere around "medium" contact. We don't use hogus at my school, and lie I said, protective gear is USUALLY worn. I >know that a lot of folks say they go full contact in free sparring. I've >worked >out with a lot of them. But in my opinion, most martial artists that use >contact use light , medium or hard contact, not full contact in free >sparring. I have also noticed this. There have been a few people I have seen who REALLY seemed to do full contact, but they've been few and far between. >Third, what are your general rules for freesparring if you have it? In >other >words, do you allow contact to head? face? techniques to groin? sweeps and >takedowns? grappling? attacks to the legs? ect? As a general rule these things are not allowed. However, there are times when the black belts will include things such as leg kicks (light contact). I have personally used sweeps and throws in sparring. Once in multi-person sparring I put an arm-bar on a green belt and used them as a shield againt my other opponents :-). But, again, this type of sparring is not the norm. > >And last, share your reasons for using free sparring and the contact level >that >you do. And do you also practice freestyle attack and defense as a seperate >entity from freesparring? I think the various levels of contact are good ways to teach people how to control their techniques. (Most of the people who talk about "full contact is necessary for powerful techniques" that *I* have met had trouble toning down their contact level when sparring in a normal class. After a while of this a good old knee to their kicking leg makes it less of a problem.) By mixing non-, light-, and medium-contact I think people learn better body control. There is also much les of a risk of being unable to hit hard in a self-defense situation. As for free style attack and defense, this seems to fall (at least somewhat) under the rubric of "semi-free sparring" at my school. In my classes, everyone spars everyone, rankwise and sex wise. The >freesparring rules are controlled by the skill and rank of the lowest rank >in >the match, or of course injuries or other problems. Ditto at my instructor's school. You have a good general format which is adaptable to the current circumstances. taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:58:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Lite Dear Todd and Debbi: “…I would have to disagree here Bruce. I taught children HKD for six years and the program I left is still going strong. As for the throwing, pins, and breakfalls, Judo kids have been doing this from the beginning of judo. Granted there are defintitly things I would not teach a child, but there are also certain things I wouldn't teach a white belt either. With all the escapes and control techniques HKD has to offer, I beleive HKD has a lot to offer children. Plus throw in the many kicks and styles of kicking HKD offers kids have a blast. One thing I always told my young students though was that there were techniques I would not show them because they were dangerous for kids to practice. Children love honesty. As for the "philosophical underpinnings of the art", can they understand philosophy at all…..” Thanks for responding and I understand your position, so I suspect we will probably just need to agree to disagree. I respect and admire your training efforts and honestly believe that your kids are getting good from your program. I am going to need to stay with my original contention that Hapkido is simply not for children. Now if you want to have some sort of introductory class ("Hapkido Lite”) and then later phase the kids into a more mature class, I can support that. But the Hapkido that I am familiar with is for “big kids.” And, believe it or not, its not out of investment in hard-core head-banging that I say this. Traditional Hapkido places stresses on the joints that even adults have trouble with and demands a sense of timing (“one quarter second/ one quarter inch ahead of your partner”) most kids can’t emulate. And yes, there ARE philosophical underpinnings regarding when and if such things are to be used and how. Now, its true that you can have kids “sit-out” their breakfalls rather than do air rolls. You can also take out the more risky wrist/elbow throws, take out chokes and locks, reduce pain-compliance, by-pass soh bong, dan bong, cane, sword, staff and knife, forget the philosophy, and drop the emphasis on pressure points. You can also focus primarily on the gross motor functions and skip over the more technical material regarding mis-alignment, checking, displacement and refinement. What is left over will be enough to help keep the kids interested, give them some significant self-defense techniques and justify the money their parents are paying. It won’t, however, be Hapkido. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Tom McNamara Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:24:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Responding to "A Question of Balance" I have been in martial arts (TKD) for 4 years. Previously I took it for 5 years before I got injured at work. I had to take time off to rehab. Before TKD I was at the gym pumping the iron. My wife of 15 years fully supports me taking TKD. We came to an agreement many years ago. I can either go to the health spa or to the do chang or at my house training. I in return don't head out to the bars with the boys after work. We go out at least one time per week to dinner or a movie or some type of entertainment. I started taking my son to TKD with me. She enjoys the time by herself. She has whole house to herself. Why do women like to take 2-hour bath? Not that I am complaining. She always smells great. It sure beats the smell of my friends at the do chang after a several rounds of sparing. The point I am trying to make, yes there has to be balance in life. To much work can stress you out. To much training can burn you out or get injury from excessive training. To much food will make you fat. I do not agree with some of the statements I have read about martial artists end up divorced. This can also be carried over to the workaholic or to the 40 years olds who still hang in the bars instead of being with the family. If you have found someone who is right for you. You will find a balance. I also find myself at work day dreaming about the techniques that I would use to counter certain moves. I also think about my wife and son and what we could do for fun over the weekend. To have balance is to have a since of inter peace. Some people find this in god. I agree with most of what you commented on. There are sure to be many different view points. Thanks Tom __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:06:38 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.