From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #70 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 30 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 070 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: HKD for Kids the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #67 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 Re: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review the_dojang: control vs. survival the_dojang: Original HKD Curriculum the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:54:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: HKD for Kids <> Ohhhhhh Pluuuuulleeeeaaaaasse. Here we go again :) Yes it would still be Hapkido. It would be the fundamental rudiments of Hapkido but it would still be Hapkido. Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:50:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review Ray writes: <> This statement alone tells me much about when you tried things out. There is only one training drone. It is a fully functional model of the Gunting. However all sharp edges have been removed and it has a rounded point instead. Can still hurt but will not cut. Also the Gunting comes in 3 Models: Red Handle - Training Drone (Allows for full play mode :) even get to practice kinetic opening) Blue Handle - CRIMPIT LEO Tool Black Handle - Live Blade Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:19:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #67 I agree, Mr. Redfield, that the practice of pulling techniques does not lead to doing so in an actual fight/self-defense situation. After all, isn't control the key element of Martial Arts? I have seen some TKD students, who practice w/ contact, have very little control during tournaments (Often to the extent that they are disqualified.) Aside from that, I would not be able to hold a normal job down if I were to practice contact sparring on a routine basis and as many bruises as I have from "no contact" sparing, I can't imagine the consequences of more contact. The problem I do experience is that sometimes I don't realize my own strength when I finally do let loose and whack something for real. Either way, hats off to all practitioners...this is not an easy lifestyle, how ever you choose to train... Tang Soo! - -Cheree (Hi MK, I know your watching : ) ------------------------------ From: Todd Miller Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:41:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 > "....A while ago there was mention of the "original" HKD curriculum, and I've > kinda been intrigued with this subject recently. I know that it's a > "slightly" controversial subject....but I'm curious about Choi Yong Sul's > original curriculum and the original KHA curriculum. Does anyone have a > written outline of either or both?....." > > I don't know if this will help or hurt but let me share with you that I had been attempting to do research based on a "curriculum" approach in comparing Hapkido with Daito-ryu and ran into quite a bit of trouble. Apparently (per sources at AIKIDO JOURNAL) OS Sokaku Takeda did not teach a "curriculum". In fact it is reported by a couple of his students that his philosophy was "not to teach the same technique twice." Apparently this came from a fear of becoming over-analytical and thus fostering opportunities for students to develop counters to the techniques (Don't ask me. I don't make the news, I just report it.). By way of extension, then, GM Choi seems to have continued this tradition and also limited the amount of exposure he gave to his students, performing the technique only once or twice per class. I share this because the idea of a "curriculum" for the Daito-ryu was more of an effort of OS Sokaku Takedas' son, the late OS Tokkimune Takeda. Both he and S Kondo were heav! > ily invested in organizing the Daito-ryu techniques. On the Korean side GM Ji and Kimm seem to have done a good job of at least cataloguing the techniques. However, since the Korean approach is just a bit more situation specific than the Japanese, there is a little bit more latitude for using one technique over another for say a wrist grab or a choke from behind. I think you would have a little more success in comparing the manner in which particular individuals have organized their techniques (say GM Ji vs GM Kim) and then compare according to biomechanic or the way the body is used vs the way the technique is taught. Doju Nim Choi did have a curriculum of sorts. From what I have learned GM Choi taught a principle based curriculum which dealt with teaching WHA - Harmony, WON - Circle, YU - Dynamic, flowing and the off balancing of ones opponent. When teaching this kind of curriculum you can use different techniques to teach a certain principle. This takes the focus off just learning 3806 individual techniques and puts the emphasis on learning how to break an opponents balance because after you break ones balance the rest is just a matter of understanding what is the logical way to finish. Learning how to apply and properly lock up your opponent is very important but if you do not unbalance them first applying a tech. is pretty difficult. I know many will say I strike or kick to unbalance my opponent, the problem with this is what if your opponent blocks your attack???? You have not broken there balance and therefore have no tech. and it becomes a strength against strength situation. BTW I do use kicks and strikes but not as my first line of defense and not as an excuse for not being able to apply a tech. Take care Todd ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:07:30 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Gunting Review > This statement alone tells me much about when you tried things out. There is > only one training drone. Our friends at Edges2, Inc. (http://trainingblades.com) carry the two Gunting training models that I referred to. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:16:26 PST Subject: the_dojang: control vs. survival > I agree, Mr. Redfield, that the practice of pulling techniques does not lead > to doing so in an actual fight/self-defense situation. After all, isn't > control the key element of Martial Arts? It is when your art's focus in on non-contact sparring. But IMHO if your art has a more self-defense focus to it, then control, i.e. pulling techniques, will not benefit the -average- student. Having started in TSD I have lived in both camps of thought. Perhaps someday I will return... :) People take martial arts for a wide variety of reasons, but for me the key element of martial arts is survival. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:03:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: Original HKD Curriculum <<..but I'm curious about Choi Yong Sul's original curriculum and the original KHA curriculum. Does anyone have a written outline of either or both?>> Ron, I have GM Ji's original curriculum (the original hand-written by him). I kept the original and gave him a copy. Needless to say, it is in a very safe place. I have been working on a translation for about the last four years in the development of an english version. I'll have to ask him when it was written and if it was when he formed the KHA. Many of the things in it need to be expounded upon and may be of little use to those that are not of his lineage. Copies and translations of his manuscripts will be one of my next projects. I also have copies of his Dan logs (5th Dan and up). I did not make copies of the other logs since they were so extensive and time was limited then. I'm not positive, but I think the 1st Dan log has a first entry sometime around 1958-9 (I should have paid more attention). But the Dan logs for 1-4th Dan are very extensive with the numbers ranging in the thousands. Many of the early Korean entries have shown signs of aging and deterioration. I'm going to undertake a project to copy them also for future preservation and documentation. Very interesting stuff in there, especially when noting who has come to him for certification and when. V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:49:04 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #70 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.