From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #72 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 31 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 072 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Question about kihaps the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 the_dojang: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?GM_Lee=92s_original_Hwarang_Do_book(s)?= the_dojang: Yu, Won, Hwa the_dojang: Reply to Rudy on bleeding hands the_dojang: RE: Setting boundaries the_dojang: RE:Hapkido Lite Re: the_dojang: Yu, Won, Hwa the_dojang: New TKD Book Re: the_dojang: New TKD Book the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:29:43 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Question about kihaps I have a question for everyone, but it *might* be directed more at the "greybeard" group than others. A person in our class last night has apparently developed a different kihap than what we are used to in our school and it was very distracting to the other students. He has been gone for a few months recently and during that time, he developed this different technique so he could kihap loudly without hurting his larynx (or vocal cords). So my question is: Why would this be? Kihaps don't come from the throat and it's not that I disbelieve him, but I literally cannot understand how this would happen. I can kihap loudly and (what we consider) appropriately for a whole class (over an hour) and not have any problems at all. He said maybe the difference was because I'm 20-something and he's 50-something, I guess implying that his throat is wearing out? I would appreciate any input on this issue. Feel free to email me privately. Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido shaun_fortune@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #69 << I am feeling my right thigh numb. ...Is it something normal?>> Is there actually minimal feeling or is it more like a burn/tingle? If it is more like a burning sensation, then perhaps it is a mild muscle tear. Is the "numbness" towards the top of your thigh? I got bursitis in my hip (cortisone shot fixed that) and I had a tingling feeling in the upper portion of my quadriceps and hamstring. I'd see a doctor. Training in the Martial Arts is so demanding that you would not want to risk further injury. - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:50:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #68 << My only hesitancy is whether or not to teach kids defenses against weapons (particularly knife and gun). I asked this on the digest a couple of weeks ago, but no one responded. >> I am not an instructor so please forgive me for being presumptuous. My background, however, is in child development and I am in tune with the behavioral characteristics of children. I am fearful that teaching children such techniques could prove to be injurious. My Kyo Sa Nim does not teach what are deemed to be "dangerous" techniques, such as strikes to the temple and throat and I have never seen him teach knife defense during a children's class. He has, however, taught the children whom are disciplined enough to join adult class such techniques. I have noted that students' outside the Do Jang often exhibit an entirely different persona. As an instructor, you see your students at the height of self-discipline and good behavior. (Hopefully!) Ultimately, you will be the best judge of character readiness. Some may be ready, others may not. Do you separate beginner and advanced children? I agree 100% that children are "little sponges waiting to learn." I never underestimate a child's ability to grasp any concept. - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:14:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?GM_Lee=92s_original_Hwarang_Do_book(s)?= I have some work to do, so I'll have to wait replying to the other posts until Friday. Just two quick posts: GM Joo Bang Lee's book is called (in McCuen R. so you know what to look for Dakin) 'Hanguk Koyu Musul Hwarang Do' it's signed January 1969 by 'Chung San I Chu-Bang' – Chungsan is GM Lee's penname. It's about 100 pages (hand-written) with drawings throughout the book, but mostly text. The book was originally circulated among the Hwarang Do masters in Korea, and a few years later it was sold through the 68 Korean Hwarang Dojangs (stencilled), mainly to black belts. It was bound in 4 volumes. Same cover on all four, only difference were a stamped number 1-4 for the Pyong (volume). It's very rare though Dakin, mine is a photocopy. The 3 English volumes follows the original Korean book exactly, even though the English books are not a precise translation. Whey follow the original Korean book chapter by chapter, stance by stance, Kihap Chagi (breathing exercise) by Kihap Chagi etc, but the text is different. The original is much more concise with far more details where the English is more 'chatty'. Jose Montenegro, the first American who trained Hwarang Do in America, said the mistakes came because GM Lee didn't speak much English so he couldn't explain what he wanted, and when the American students wrote the book it was done very quickly. It explains a lot, for instance why the parts on advanced meditation/visualisation is not in the English books (you have to do it right, otherwise it's not healthy at all). Another example of things not in the English books is 5 pages test on body conditioning techniques. One of the things Hwarang Do were famous in Korea were their kyukpa (breakings) - and for killing live animals with the hands, of course... Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:16:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Yu, Won, Hwa Todd: >> From what I have learned GM Choi taught a principle based curriculum which dealt with teaching WHA - Harmony, WON - Circle, YU - Dynamic, flowing and the off balancing of ones opponent. << Quick question to students of GM Ji: does GM Ji teach Yu, Won, Hwa? Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Martin Price Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:33:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Reply to Rudy on bleeding hands Rudy, I was the one who spoke of my hand bleeding while working on the bag. I mentioned in the post that there was a young student whom I was showing how to properly put your whole body into punches and how to twist at the proper moment to maximize the striking force. I was totally unaware that I had skinned a knuckle on the bag until he pointed it out. I did not intend to work on the bag until I bled, and I explained to the young man that he, like I needed to work on conditioning our hands to where this would not happen. I also mentioned in the post that I told him it was time to work on knife hands and heel strikes to where I would not further injure my knuckle. I can assure you that I would not encourage anyone, especially a youngster to condition their hands to the point of bleeding, scar tissue is not what one wants to develop to condition ones hands as I am sure you are aware of. Martin one of the Gray Beards TKD WTF ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:29:44 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Setting boundaries Dear Mike: ".... Here we go again :) Yes it would still be Hapkido. It would be the fundamental rudiments of Hapkido but it would still be Hapkido... " You know that I set this trap just for you, don't you? :-) Seriously, though, I don't want to get into a long examination of this and I certainly am not running for the position of "Net Curmudgeon". What I do hope I provide is a voice of reason on occasion, and in this particular case I am advocating for the integrity of the art. I will say again that I am not discounting teaching children out of hand. What I am pressing for is some level of instruction beneath which one can acknowledge that not the whole corpus of the art is being taught. IMHO I have come to see the art of Hapkido (whther we are speaking of GM Ji's art specifically or as a generic title) degrading even in the time in which I have studied it. I can't swing a dead cat by the tail and not hit a TKD school that advertises that it also teaches HKD (Not "hoshinsul", or "hapkido techniques") - the art. And the Hapkido schools that are out there may be just about anything a person wants to whip-stitch together. Does this person have a cert to do this? Maybe - maybe not. If he doesn't he can certainly contact one of the SEVEN national/international organizations and for the appropriate fee get a cert or license. Then take a look at what that person is teaching. A couple of wrist-locks, a couple of throws, a couple of pins and some air rolls ("look, Ma-instant Hapkido. Just add imagination.") and you, too, can be a Shilla warrior. Where does this start? Somebody ducks accountability and tries to represent Hapkido as something its not, or represents something they are doing as the genuine article. Don't want to be tested on your ability?--- no problem-we don't do tests. Have an ego problem that won't let you start at the bottom in a new art? No problem-we'll just grandfather you in. Not making rank fast enough? No problem-We'll just do a quick two-step down the block to the competition or an alternate organization. I believe that somewhere along the line this crap has got to stop and one place to draw such a line is where and how we represent what we teach. After all we are such labor-like scholars over pedigree, can't we be just a bit more careful about how we represent the art itself? Yes, by all means, teach the children. Teach them rolling and stances, and elementary takedowns and hopefully when they are older they maybe they will join an adult class. But we don't have kids in major league baseball - we have Little League and Sandlot. We don't have kids in Formula One racing; we have go carts. We don't have kids in Medicine; we let them play "doctor" (hmmm I'm going to have to think about that one). We don't put children in adult situations and call it the same thing because its not. We defer to their size, physical and mental abilitiies, and potential. This is not Hapkido. It may be good commercialism, but its not Hapkido. The art I practice is not easy to learn, is not for everyone and I would be lying to represent it as such. Even the college classes I teach art not strictly the "art" of Hapkido as much as a representation of various levels of sophistication within the art and I tell my students so. I bet there are a lot of people out there for whom much of this post is hitting uncomfortably close to home and quite frankly those are the folks that I would really like to hear a response from. Not the people who trained for years under a legit HKD master. I am talking about the people who know a person who is best friends with the sister-in-law of buddy who can spell "Choi" and now have a 7th degree BB from the KiDoHae in HKD because of it. Say "hi" to the kids for me. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:51:30 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Hapkido Lite Dear Todd and Debbi: "...I think you missed my point Bruce. I don't actually take things out of the HKD curriculum. It depends on the childs age as to were I put a technique into the curriculum. Take the opposite situation. We once had a 74 year old taking hapkido class. there was no way he would be able to do a spin kick. Does that mean he can't learn hapkido?..." I have to be honest and say that you really have me on this one. I wish I could give some nifty, sage response but the short answer is, "I just don't know." There are scads of reports regarding many of the old masters who go out onto the mat well into their 80-s and one Japanese sword master who was teaching well into his 90-s. I wouldn't pretend that they weren't practicing their art. But, then, they had been training their whole lives and may have slowly given-in to not doing the more acrobatic techniques in deference to their age. It's a bit different when the person is a 70 y/o who wants "to learn Hapkido so I can protect myself". Are we talking the art, or just a group of techniques? That Hapkido candidate could easily wind-up on a short trip to the hospital for taking breakfalls from an eager college student. And, they are certainly not going to participate in many of the kicking and striking drills. I don't even want to think about Chokes, locks and pins. I think if you had to pin me down I would deal with them the same way I would deal with the kids. I would tell them that I will teach them techniques from the art of Hapkido and the techniques will be easy and effective and take age and ability into consideration. But I wouldn't tell them I would teach them Hapkido because I wouldn't be teaching them the art, only selected pieces from the art. Does this help? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:58:49 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Yu, Won, Hwa > Quick question to students of GM Ji: does GM Ji teach Yu, Won, Hwa? my experience is that DoJuNim doesn't teach using Korean, or many Korean, terms. So I do not think I've heard him directly refer to Yu, Won, and Hwa. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Mike_Devich@selinc.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:44:24 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: New TKD Book This is a new book by an ol' Montana person now living in Korea and working at the Kukiwon. The book is officially recognized by the South Korean government. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/8978200583/qid%3D980964315/107-960439 8-7203759 Taekwondo: The Spirit of Korea by Steven D. Capener, Jae Sik Suh (Photographer), Edward H. KIm (Editor) Also, check this out: http://www.bstkd.com Off the Big Sky TKD homepage is a link to a short book review. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:11 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: New TKD Book >This is a new book by an ol' Montana person now living in Korea and working at >the Kukiwon. The book is officially recognized by the South Korean government. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/8978200583/qid%3D980964315/107-960439 > 8-7203759 > > Taekwondo: The Spirit of Korea > by Steven D. Capener, Jae Sik Suh (Photographer), Edward H. KIm (Editor) > > Also, check this out: > > http://www.bstkd.com > > Off the Big Sky TKD homepage is a link to a short book review. I can also recommend this book. I was honored to receive a pre-release copy of it back in July/Aug and found it beautifully done, a coffee table book type layout. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:48:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #72 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.