From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #74 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 1 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 074 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #73 the_dojang: Hands the_dojang: Blood the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #73 the_dojang: RE: Hapkido Lite the_dojang: re: To Shaun's kihaps question the_dojang: RE: Exposed blood the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:19:52 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #73 In a message dated 1/31/2001 9:02:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << As a general question to the group what actions do you or your dojang take when bleeding occurs. >> We stop and clean it up right away with some disinfectant. We then have the student bandage their cut or cuts up. Illlona ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 02:17:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hands Martin writes: > I can assure you that I would not encourage anyone, especially a youngster > to condition their hands to the point of bleeding, scar tissue is not what > one wants to develop to condition ones hands as I am sure you are aware of. Hey Martin, I'm glad to hear that you deter youngsters from "conditioning" their hands. Since the bones may not fully develop until well in the teens, repeated blows to the knuckles may cause damage to the area where growth occurs. I was one of those youngsters who battered the Makiwara boards until my knuckles were gigantic. Too bad I did not have an Instructor who was more knowlegable about skeletal development. My hands never did get quite back to normal. On the topic of children in HKD. Every single one of the Instructors now teaching in my Dojang began their training with me at a young age. They stayed with me through their teens and, as they matured, the techniques matured with them. Similarly, I don't teach the "real" technique to beginning adults either. For one thing, I like to get to know them better. For another, I have seen too many adults who were so delighted with their newfound knowledge that they could not wait to try it on their unsuspecting spouses (of whatever gender). I just do not want to be responsible for teaching them how to REALLY hurt someone before they have a chance to learn control. I can still remember teaching my first Black Belt class. With their brand new Black Belts on, my students were eagerly waiting for their first lesson. You should have seen their faces when I went over the "Black Belt" version of Ki Bon Soo (the white belt soo); however, it did not take long before they developed a whole new appreciation for pain (and Ki Bon Soo). Thinking about that, I wonder how many of my adult students would have seen their first Black Belt class if I had taught the "real thing" in their first class. Bruce. You are right about children in professional basebal; however, I can't think of one of those Pro Baseball Players who did not start as a kid with some sort of ballgame. I guess we do agree to disagree on this one. BTW, just in case you include me in the group of seven. I'd like you to know of at least one association that does not hand out certificates indiscriminately. I may, however, provide an alternative for those hard working individuals who had the misfortune to get caught up in politics. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 02:38:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Blood T. Kennely writes: > What did you do about the blood on the bag. Does you dojang have a policy > about what to do with exposed blood? As a general question to the group > what actions do you or your dojang take when bleeding occurs. Great point! In today's world, one cannot be too careful. Where once we taught to punch to the upper lip, I now steer my students away from this area. Too easy to get cut on the teeth, and too much chance to cause a bloody lip/nose. The two just don't mix in my book, and there are soooo many other places to hit. As far as precautions. First of all, we try to avoid blood (padding, target, proper coaching etc). However, should it happen, we do have a commercial cleaning solution that claims to be effective on aids etc. Ofcourse we do have rubber gloves in our First-Aid kit. I also insist that the bleeding person takes care of this himself (if at al possible). No sense in anyone else handling his or her blood, and it is a great way to take their minds off the incident. Question: How many school owners insist that ALL of their Black Belts have a valid First-Aid and CPR certificate before they are granted the rank? Do any school owners demand that their Black Belts have some sort of Coaching training? Just curious. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: HKDHW@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 05:53:22 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #73 If you are trying to locate a lost instructor you may contact the Korea Hapkido Association at the following address: Korea Hapkido Association Se-jong B/D 202-B Ho,7-1 Shin-Moon-Ro 1ka Chong-Ro-Gu, Seoul Korea 110-061 I hope this will help you in finding your instructor. Hal Whalen ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 07:59:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hapkido Lite Dear Luc: "...When can we say that someone, kid or adult, is really learning HKD? Can HKD starts with the first punch, or the first roll? When the adult white belt starts in the class, do they start learning HKD or only after a certain amount of time or technique, or level, etc. before they actually learn HKD...". Thanks for your post. You came to the point quite readily and with far less words than I. I honestly think this is a question that we need to serious reflect on. I must tell you that I cannot "play" the piano, but I am reasonably adept at picking out "Chop-sticks". I suppose that an argument could be made that I do in fact play the piano in that I am able to eke out this simple tune (along with "Twinkle..Twinkle, Little Star"). My wife on the hand play with both hands and is a joy to listen to. I know this whole issue raises the hackles on many an instructor whose bread and butter depends on selling a product to a community. Certainly, if I expected to attract and retain students the idea of learning an art of the sophistication of Hapkido would be one avenue worth investigating. I wonder what the final effect on the art itself will be for the next generation, however. One assumes that the instructor who starts children out thinking that they are learning Hapkido in the full sense of the art will be sure to transition them appropriately to the adult form when the time comes. Knowing, however, the high rate of MA school failures, the mobile nature of our culture and the changes Life brings to us, I wonder what the chances are of this transition not taking place and the student being left with the idea that they have accomplished a goal not necessarily in evidence. I had a young woman come to one of my classes, who presented as a Brown belt (3rd guep) who had been training for 10 months. That, of itself should say something. Her impoverished understanding of the art, her poor technique and limited catalogue of technique tells me that she was functioning more on fantasy than education and I don't think she is a rare exception. And this person was purported a product of one of the better known Hapkido teachers in our area. Suppose we consider a child who has not the resources of even this adult. Are we truly speaking of the same "Hapkido" in both of these cases, and even so, look at the results. Perhaps we could use a standardized curriculum whose focus is imbuing children with the basic material so as to prepare them for standard Hapkido classes. But I think it is bad for the art and a disservice to the child to degrade the art in deference to their lesser abilities, even with the best of intentions, and still represent it as Hapkido. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Martin Price Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:24:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: re: To Shaun's kihaps question Shaun, I am 47 and have no problem with my throat due to my kihaps, which are loud. I half way wonder if both before and after this gentlemans change in kihaps he was doing them incorrectly at first causing his throat to be sore and is still doing them incorrectly causing his annoying kihaps. My kihaps come from deep within and not from the throat, they feel like a natural concentration of power. The way it sounds to me is he is using his vocal chords to produce his kihaps. Martin a Gray Bearded One ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com ------------------------------ From: Martin Price Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:37:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: RE: Exposed blood T. Kennely and all, We keep alcohol wipes and disenfectant at the front desk for any spilled blood. The amount of blood was miniscule and between alcohol wipes and disenfectant came off easily. We make clean up of blood a priority at any time it does happen. All the instuctors and the majority of the students know exactly where the alcohol wipes and disenfectant are, and know that immediate cleanup is mandantory. Martin a Gray Bearded One TKD WTF ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 8:30:38 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #74 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.