From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #81 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 4 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 081 In this issue: the_dojang: Re:Of Blood and Gore the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 the_dojang: How do you relax? the_dojang: World Class TKD?? the_dojang: This is such a great list the_dojang: 14th International HapKiDo Seminar the_dojang: Reality the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:41:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Of Blood and Gore Dear Ray, Alain et al: Re: Seeing your own blood I don't know if this will help the discussion or hurt but I through it out for your consideration following the mention of expecting to be cut as part of knife training. To support what Ray is saying about seeing ones' own blood, the same might be said of tasting ones' blood from a strike to the nose or mouth or even experiencing ringing in the ears from a head strike or hard throw. There is a near-shock response which is entirely expected and normal in these cases and I believe is part of the training process. Even were I to train small children, I think it is important to help the child to identify that the sight of blood is not always indicative of a life-threatening injury, and were one to be in a serious combat situation to indulge in an even momentary triage of ones' injury could only make one vulnerable to additional injury. Sometimes I think of my grandchildren who will cry loudly at the skinning of a knee and yet noone in our family does much more than give them a pat and send them back out to play. I see training as instilling this same objectivity for combat injuries. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:54:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 Dear Rudy: "...Let's see now. The Grand Master eliminated half of the techniques because we "Americans" could not handle the whole thing. The next generation throws out a bunch more, because it did not suit their profile. The following generation probably has some stuff that they can't make work. Other Grand Masters pass on before they have a chance to teach it all. Hmmmmm. You historians better start documenting this stuff fast....". In a handful of sentences you have managed to capture my worst case scenerio. I wish I could say this was just a bad fantasy but in fact this scene is being played out on a regular basis in Hapkido and very probably for exactly the subjective reasons you identify in your post. Nor are the people who are involved in this degradation of the art unaware of what they are doing. I have met too many personalities who despite teaching watered-down Hapkido still wish to be recognized as individuals and leaders as though they in fact taught the entire corpus. An alternate course is to take the same few techniques and simply teach them as responses to a wider range of situations grabs or strikes and and so create the illusion that the same original amount of material is still being taught. I have looked for some central cause for this and continually come back to the place that the individuals who are doing this simply don't have the developed character or patience to invest themselves in truely learning art. They simply can't wait to represent themselves as something they are not and hope that noone will examine them too deeply. If you are wondering how bad this can get, I can dig through my files and find that URL to a website that lists perhaps hundreds or "associations", "federations" "kwans" and arts very commonly prefaced with the word "International" or "World". The word "grandiosity" comes to mind. I know I am just one person, and nobody here needs to pay any special attention to me. But don't expect me to sit by quietly and let things go into, or stay, in the toliet. hanks, Rudy. Bruce ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:55:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 In a message dated 2/4/01 11:26:41 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Alain B:<< I know that many teach this, and it has always bothered me. I do not teach a person to "expect" to get cut. I teach to avoid getting cut. Yes, if you get cut, you deal with it, but you don't go into it "expecting" it to happen. >> Yes! Finally someone with some sense in their head. I never teach "expect to get cut". Rather I teach if he has a knife, destroy him. Defense does not work here, only full speed ahead offense. Forget fancy techniques, rather pick your target and destroy. gary ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:00:10 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #80 In a message dated 2/4/01 11:26:41 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Ray T.<< Heck, in most cases you don't even see the knife until after you're already bleeding. >> Definitely true. Remember my post a few weeks ago about my cousin being stabbed by a "friend", knife came from no where. But if he shows it, move and destroy, don't back up, don't be bashful. gary ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:07:00 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: How do you relax? I know how sometimes a good workout and really pouncing the bag can actually be relaxing. Some may even do Tai-Chi to help relax. Not me. About the most relaxing thing I can think of is with 2 wheels beneath me. This weekend has been perfect ridin' weather here in Houston. All the bikers were out in force. I think everybody who owned a bike was out taking advantage of such a beautiful day. I don't know if y'all up North still have snow or not, but it sure is nice here. So after riding today and have a Rodeo kickoff dance tonight, I've had a very good relaxing weekend. It will be back to the rat race and teaching little rug rats tomorrow. Mac ------------------------------ From: Bernard G Redfield Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:23:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: World Class TKD?? Can anyone tell me about World Class TKD up in Watertown NY? my nephew has started and I have not heard of an organization by that name, just wondering. Bernard ------------------------------ From: "Shaun M. Fortune" Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:14:58 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: This is such a great list I just want to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude on the quality of this list. Recently, I got curious about what other kinds of lists were out there. I joined an aikido list because that's supposed to be somewhat related to hapkido and I joined a "karate" (many styles accepted) list because I know a guy who does a traditional Okinawan style. Not only did I not like the format (individual emails instead of one email with a bunch of messages), I didn't care for the quality of the posts. I was on the aikido list for about 18 hours, got about 150 messages and only a very few were actually related to aikido. The karate list is better, but nothing like what I'm used to. So I thank all of the contributors to the _digest. There is something on here every single day that makes me think, gives me ideas about things to do (or NOT to do ;), or whatever. Not only the long-timers but the newbies, too. And a special thank you to Master Terry for putting this thing together and keeping it running very well. I've seen comments like this before and while I agreed that the list was well run, I had NO idea how well. Kamsa hamnida all. Shaun M. Fortune Taekwondo/hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:37:28 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: 14th International HapKiDo Seminar Ray: Thanx for asking about our upcoming seminar. We have been running these twice a year for 7 years, and they just seem to keep getting bigger. I came up with the idea of having three different subjects going on at any given time, after working in many clinics where there was little or no organization of subject matter. I also found that from time to time people would complain about spending a lot of money and not being able to work on enough stuff that interested them, so we try to offer about 24 different subjects over the course of the seminar. We work with one hour sessions and fifteen minute breaks in between, so that your brain doesn't get overloaded. Every guest instructor teaches one session at two different times over the weekend, and we have a few non-HapKiDo instructors that will teach stuff that will have an interest for a group of folks. For example, Master Hodder of CO will teach a session this time on "step sparring", and Master McHenry of TX will teach a class on spinning kicks. The rest will teach everything from cane (Master Whalen of MA), short stick (Master Allison from GA), two finger defense (Master Hilland of IN), to hook punch defense (Master Booth from Australia). We allow everyone to take a two-hour lunch break on Saturday, so that folks can take a shower and still eat a comfortable lunch, and we recommend that everyone bring a video camera and bring as much of the clinic home with them as they possibly can. Out of the 215 at the last February clinic, most were from out of the local area, and I only allow about 40 of my students to attend, and about 3/4 of those are black belts. We try to keep the price in everyones reach as well, with the pre-registrationfee holding firm at $65 for several years. We're expecting in the neighborhood of 300 participants this time, and I'm sure that someone will write something here about the weekends fun after it's all over...Thanx for asking....JRW www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 16:43:32 PST Subject: the_dojang: Reality > Yes! Finally someone with some sense in their head. I never teach "expect to > get cut". Rather I teach if he has a knife, destroy him. Defense does not > work here, only full speed ahead offense. Forget fancy techniques, rather > pick your target and destroy. The first rule of a knife fight is you will get cut. Eskrima masters like Mike Inay, Cacoy Canete, Dan Inosanto, Remy Presas, and Leo Gaje all agree. But then, what do they know... :) As far as destroying him, first you'd better run fast in the other direction. Full speed ahead will probably get you killed. A good offense CAN be your best defense (short of Nike-do), but NEVER until you get an opening or have taken a minor cut to get control of their knife arm, then and only then wade in with the head, knees, elbow, etc. But if people think getting control is easy, grease up the knife, arm, and hands with K-Y jelly and then try it (the K-Y will mimic your blood on their knife and knife hand/arm). For a short easy read (54 pages) that will open your eyes to the reality of knife encounters, check out Don Pentecost's Put'em Down, Take'em Out!, Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom Prison (1988, Paladin Press). I don't care for his concepts of 'finish the job' and 'don't stick around', but people with that attitude are the types that you will probably be facing. Pentecost can open eyes to the reality of being attacked with a blade. As another eye opening experience see if a friendly LEO trainer or prison guard can show you a video of a prison yard knife attack. There is one 'popular' one where the cons are in a small exercise yard which is being videotaped. One con jumps the guy he is supposed to kill and starts hitting him with #3s (his angle of attack). Nothing fancy, just powerful #3 stabs to the belly. The person being attacked ignores the knife, he probably doesn't see it, and lands one powerful right cross after another. He continues to hand his right crosses to the head & neck, but the adrenaline is flowing and the attacker just shakes them off and continues to land his #3s to the belly. At first you think the person being attacked will survive due to the powerful rights he continues to land, but pretty soon the loss of blood weakens him, then his intestines fall out around his feet tripping him to the ground. He died in a pool of his own blood and intestines. Sickening, yes, but eye opening if one hasn't personally witnessed such exchanges. The first rule of a knife fight is you will get cut. Don't think of that as a negative thing, just accept it, expect it, deal with it, and practice your survival techniques with that thought in mind. Truth be known, you probably won't even notice it/them until it is all over, one way or another. But it makes for very good motivation for proper practice. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:40:10 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #81 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.