From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #83 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 5 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 083 In this issue: the_dojang: Bio-mechanical Cutting the_dojang: The 10 Commandments of Steel the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #81 the_dojang: Korean for "seiza"? the_dojang: RE: Knife Stuff the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 the_dojang: Follow Up, Kino Mutai the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 the_dojang: Hapkido Future the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 the_dojang: RE: Knife Fights the_dojang: Repeat of question... the_dojang: downunda Re: the_dojang: Hapkido Master's?????????? the_dojang: ContactThe_Dojang-Digest V8 #75 (fwd) the_dojang: Re: Facing Knives the_dojang: Hapkido Lite the_dojang: Self Promotion the_dojang: Quarter Century milestone Re: the_dojang: Re: Facing Knives the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:28:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Bio-mechanical Cutting With all the talk on blade work I thought I would post the following : Bio-mechanical Cutting: De-animation without termination Biomechanical cutting means to stop all mechanical function of the body. It does not mean to end or cease the functioning of the body or terminate its life. Street combat needs biomechanical cutting to achieve its ends while military combat needs to stop not only biomechanical function but in most cases termination of the unit in general. The goal of Biomechanical cutting in street combat is to stop a body's mechanical function. If one stops the mechanical function of one's opponent several things become clear in combative reality: * The threat of attack is removed. If one's opponent cannot make a physical action happen then the opponent's desire or intent doesn't matter * The opponent's mobility is gone. One's escape can be implemented. The opponent cannot follow. * The opponent's condition is a deterrent to others wanting to take similar action * Drugs, alcohol, lack of pain, great strength or other mitigating factors, which might help an opponent in aggressive street combat, are negated and become moot. * Legal ramifications are kept to a minimum: Death is hard to reconcile The human body is basically a complex mechanical unit. There is a frame work, an interior structure that maintains form, and function with tissue that connects the pieces and connective tissues the extend or contract the pieces. There are fuel lines, lubricants, and a complex electrical system with on board computer hook up. By interfering with any of these systems, the mechanical unit shuts down. Cutting any of these connections, joints or electrical pathways damages the unit till it can be surgically repaired. Cutting is the imperative word here for percussive striking may or may not do damage. One can suppose or speculate on percussive damage by theory or by inferred results but cutting is different. Every one cuts and bleeds. Steel cuts flesh. Severing living flesh and the working human mechanical system brings obvious results. Humans are very easy to injure, maim, and destroy parts of rather than terminate. The human body and spirit are very resilient and that resiliency keeps people who should have died from their wounds alive and fighting. Emergency rooms are full of should have died patients. War heroes are given posthumous citations for somehow surviving an attack and then saving others and killing the enemy before expiring themselves. This makes combat very complex! One could deliver a "death" blow and as one waits for one's opponent to die, the opponent somehow manages to counterstrike and deliver his own death blow back at one. Tie score. Both die. This is an unacceptable combative solution. In combat therefore, instead of looking to terminate the opponent with no biomechanical cessation of function, one should "destroy" the opponent's operating system then terminate the opponent as the progression builds. In street combat that option does not exist. If one terminates an opponent one can end up in jail or in court or both. Therefore biomechanical cutting is of utmost importance in street combat. Without terminating one's opponent, one stops all possibility of threat or aggression by stopping the opponent from functioning. Just like the Black Knight in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail. The Black Knight has both arms and legs cut off by King Arthur and the hopping torso keeps yelling, "Come on! It's only a flesh wound. Come closer so I can bite you!" King Arthur rides off into the sunset. IMPORTANT: many people will gladly tell one that lethal force is allowed to be met with lethal force and "Don't worry, In a court of law JUSTICE will prevail!" Only on paper, in certain circumstances, with certain people involved, is lethal force the accepted response to lethal force. Worse yet, those that would judge one for using lethal force, a jury of one's peers, is NEVER of one's peers and they are truly the common people with nothing in common with the one they judge. If one's opponent or opponent's family doesn't file criminal charges, the state may file criminal charges for one's ethical self-defense actions that aren't socially or legally acceptable. If one beats the criminal charges the same groups may file civil charges. NOTE: Humans have a reflex of looking at our injuries. Humans go into some form of fetal position upon shock or injury: contraction rather than expansion. Intent does not count with biomechanical cutting. The opponent may have intent or the most will power in the world but function is function: if the parts don't work all the prayer, wishing or swearing will not make them work again until surgically repaired. ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:36:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: The 10 Commandments of Steel Courtesy of Guro Bram Frank : The 10 Commandments of Steel 1) Steel cuts flesh: always Knives always cut flesh. That's what they are designed to do. For over a million years the principle has stayed the same. 2) One cannot change rule #1 Since you didn't write the rules, and the rules follow the law of physical science, you can't rewrite the rules or change them. 3) Unless one has a blue suit with a big red "S" on it, rules #1 & #2 ALWAYS apply! If your skin is stronger than steel, and your name is SUPERMAN, and you are able to withstand a "speeding bullet" then you can ignore rules #1 & #2. Otherwise rules #1 & #2 apply directly to you! 4) The principal of a knife: an edge that cuts flesh has NEVER changed Knives have been used for over a million years. They were designed to cut flesh. They still cut flesh as effectively today as back then. It is mankind's oldest friend and the principle is as good now as then! 5) Always lead with the edge, thrust with the point The edge is what cuts, so use it! The tip or point is used to pierce flesh so thrust it out there towards the target! 6) Grip is determined by range, not arbitrary decisions or reasons: range is determined by length of the weapon. How one grips a knife is dependent on where ones hand is in relationship to one's opponent at best. Sometimes grip is whatever immediately comes to hand! The longer the weapon the greater the range: the shorter the weapon the closer the range. 7) Disarming an opponent who has a knife is unrealistic! Try sticking your hands into a whirling blender. The only thing disarmed is your fingers, which literally get dis-fingered! Or your fingers become finge's with R & S on the floor! 8) Weapon accessibility is paramount: no access no usage This is a no-brainer. If you can't get to your knife its useless! 9) Using steel is very serious: "I was in fear for my life." One doesn't play or threaten with a knife. You only use it because you fear for your life! It can be a deadly tool! 10) One person drips, the other gushes, quickly becomes one person gushes, the other sports a "toe tag". The confrontation that you've scripted in your own head, can quickly get out of hand. A confrontation using knives can and will turn deadly very quickly! Everybody can LOSE! ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:37:32 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #81 Late last week someone asked what the Korean term for a Sai was. You know, I am sure, that this word is Japanese and the "Sai" is not a weapon traditionally used in Korean Martial Arts. However, I have asked my Kyo Sa Nim to find the term. I will let you know... FYI: I have a list of basic Korean (South) terminology on my website. http://www.cskimkaratebloomfield.com/words.html (Please excuse any variations in spelling: Korean lettering is entirely different from American Standardized English, therefore, written translation is subject to distortion.) - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:16:29 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Korean for "seiza"? Anyone know what the Korean term for the position known as "seiza" in Japanese is? Donnla. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:42:26 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Knife Stuff Just a quick question as long as we are focusing on knives. Has anyone on the Net had experience with the knife course that is advertised through COLD STEEL? I have a flyer around here somewhere and can give particulars regarding the curriculum, but I always like to have feedback from someone who has actually attended one of these things. Inquiring minds want to know, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:54:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 Hi, Im semi new on the forum but on the expandation of the knife topic I'd like to boast my opinion as well. I have trained in the FMA / Pekiti Tirsia system and in the Serrada system and both have an excellent array of knife defense drills. In all due respect for the knife techniques I have learnt would I use them in a real defense? well that depends on the situation, but I would let my Instinctive or (Reptillian brain if you will) take over. I have been in situations involving a knife on 2 occasions, and both times I didnt really relate to my training. In one incident when I got into the altercation this individual sliced at me and missed, I used my T-shirt as a target wich had confused the man and I used it by wrapping it around my for-arm for any blows that may be incoming and I took one accross the forearm wich actually cut thru the shirt but at the same time it didnt cut deep enough to do any real harm, but it allowed me enough time (a milla-second) to take control of the attacker and dissarm him and I subdued him.... the 2nd incident happend and I actually didnt get cut I resorted back to my TKD training where you kick the knife out the hand of your attacker with an Inside cresent kick and yes it actually worked at wich time the knife flew about 15 feet and he didnt have time to respond before I was all over him.... was that a drill we practiced yes.. but I have always been trained to get cut in my FMA and in TKD not to get cut so in both cases that I was in an encounter with a blade I used both intuitions and they both worked out yet I needed stitches on my forearm but it wasnt life threatning. It could of been but my street-level instincts took over and my training was in there as well but if I'd never of trained these techniques in TKD of kicking I may of not thought of that. So I think when dealing with a knife its like someone I believe it was Ray said " a knife is like dealing with a loaded gun" If that wasnt you Ray I apoligize. But you dont know what will happen until your faced with the situation and you dont know the skill level of your opponent on the street wich also renders it hard to use alot of these techniques. But You never train enough for these situations... Until your confronted with it and it becomes 2nd nature to you in the altercation you cant say what you can or will do....When your in the dojang and say feed my a "strait lunge" and dissarm it, It isnt the same as in the street we all know this... because that knife comes harder, faster, and meaner when its for real and someone on the other end is wanting to do harm to you.... Just my opinion here dont want to offend anyone. Cory ------------------------------ From: "Alagna, Steven M" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:09:34 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Follow Up, Kino Mutai Ray said: >So knowing ahead of time what can happen allows you to respond better to the aftermath when/if it occurs to you.> I think this should apply to all areas of training. Follow-up, what happens next!? A lot of people practice a one attack, one defense situation, but "what if" should always follow. If you have a chance to run, then great, but what if the attacker is relentless. A lot of defenses are just avoidance, which is nice, but does nothing to prevent the attacker from coming at you again. I really like the defenses where you attack at the same time and then follow up with multiple relentless attacks. I really had a great laugh regarding the kino mutai art of biting, pinching, and eye gouging. I became a master of this growing up and getting into lots of street fights that almost always went to the ground. My Uncle gave me great advice of pulling hair also, which I added and worked nicely. My kids instinctively use these techniques along with scratching, they actually have to be taught to punch and then takes awhile for them to do it properly. Steven M. Alagna ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:14:11 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 The theory that one should "expect to be cut" actually is a load off my mind... I have always felt like a numbskull if ever my "attacker" (i.e., practice partner) ever so much as brushed me with the knife. Although I disarm (and kick the stuffin') out of the opponent, It never dawned on me that the real point is survival. One could sustain an injury but still prevail. I feel better. - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:18:37 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Future Dear Mr. Sims, Thank you for a response that was better than my "cutesy" words deserved. In short, my position is that Hapkido will go where we lead it. While Hapkido is large enough that each student can focus on an area of interest and make it his specialty, he should not let that focus override his responsibility to pass on a full and supple Hapkido. >I think we both agree that the art benefits from a clearer, more concise >definition rather than a more general, even eclectic, approach.< The future of the art benefits from a clear concise "united front", to those who have not yet dedicated themselves to Hapkido, and from an eclectic "re-evaluate it all within the philosophical guidelines" approach from those that have. >I understand very well who the individuals are who have established >themselves in position of authority and I recognize that authority. Where >you may be getting confused is in my position that people in positions of >authority are accountable to the individuals over whom that authority is >executed. In my humble opinion, as well as that of a number of thinkers in >the last few centuries, leaders are mandated to meet their responsibilities >of the positions in which they find themselves.< You and I fundamentally disagree here. If the followers get to decide the direction and accountability of the leader, then I submit that there was no leader. It is my humble opinion that a leader leads. If following is voluntary, then popular leaders will have great numbers of followers, and unpopular leaders will have fewer. IMHO following is our responsibility, learning along the way about leading, and then one day, if called, leading. It is in the desire to be a leader that people become misled. Those same misguided leaders mislead those that follow, and disloyalty and chaos result. It is in your "making a noise when some GM drops the ball" that I disagree with you the most. Your assumption that you can determine what constitutes "dropping the ball" is IMHO beyond the scope of your mandate. Let the GMs lead their way. When you are called, lead your way. Again I thank you for your kind an considered response. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:20:53 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #82 Oh and as far as teaching "expect to get cut..." A weapon toting lunatic accosts you...what do you expect, a hand-shake? The possiblity of getting cut by an attacker seems like a comonsense expectation. A fearless man is a foolish man... ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:51:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Knife Fights Alain asked: "You will get cut in a knife fight? Well.... How many knife fights have the people on this list been in? Anyone here been in one where they didn't get cut?" I have been in one knife fight, have students who were in two and know a lady who was attacked in a robbery attempt. My situation was a long time ago( early 70's) in high school, before I got my first dan ranking. Comparing carry knives in school (yeah, all the guys way back then carried a knife in school and nobody thought anything of it. Anyway, this guy (who was not very stable) just turned toward me and started slashing. I moved back, sending desks flying, but he kept coming. So I cut down on his next slash toward my stomach and cut him across the back of his hand. He stopped, kind of laughed, put his knife away and went to the doctor. Wow, when I tell about it now, it seems incredible that I didn't even get a repremand. Now someone in that position could have felony charges just for having the knife, let alone cutting someone. One of my students preimpted an antagonist when his right hand went behing his body, presumably for the knife in his hip pocket. He kicked the guy hard a couple of times. The cops got there before the guy could get up. I think this is the type of situation Gary was talking about, and I agree. But once the knife is bared, someone will most likely be cut. Another student, actually a co-student, though I was his senior, was accosted by a man who attempted to rob him at knifepoint. He kept his bike between hiss body and his attacker, untill the guy overextended trying to stab him over the bike. The student blocked the stab with an pakeso ahnuro chaki, which also knocked the knife out of the attacker's hand, and knocked him down with a yup mirro chaki. Then rode off on his bike. Sounds like a good case, and it was, but the knife left a deep 6 inch gash on the inside of his leg above the ankle. In the last case, a man robbed the convience store where this lady worked late at night. She was the only one in the store. She gave him the money, but I guess he was mad because there wasn't as much as he had hoped for. He leaned across the desk and did an ice pick overhand stab. This lady threw her hands up instinctively, and the knife went through one of her forearms. Again, lucky, but better than the chest. Part of my earlier post somehow got lost. I agree with Alain in that I have always wondered if the drumming in of "you will get cut" might make someone any more susceptable to being cut in a self defense situation. I guess most of us use visualization as a positive tool. Ray have any of your Eskrima Masters ever addressed this? Anyone else? Danny Dunn ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:54:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Repeat of question... I threw this one out a little while ago, but thought I'd ask it again, with a little more explanation (especially since no one answered :) --- Other than GM Lee and his brother, is there anyone else who met Suahm Dosa? Anyone else see his techniques, his training style, any other students/partners/peers? Anyone outside of the Lee's family know him? Any record of a Suahm Dosa that anyone knows of---_outside_ of what the Hwarangdo association says? Carsten? Anyone? I'm curious for a number of reasons---among them, primarily because I am fairly dubious about the "direct connection" between the curent day Hwarangdo association and the empty hand arts of the Hwarang era. This doesn't mean anything directly, I'm dubious about a lot of things with regards to a lot of different types of martial history. However, lately there just seems to be a lot of talk (outside the_dojang, though we've had our share here too, lately) about how the curent association is indeed related directly to something that existed generations back, and it strikes me as interesting, since even five years ago I didn't recall hearing much of anything like that. So, just curious: is there any evidence of a Suahm Dosa who was a martial artist, or do we only have stories told by the current Hwarangdo association and such? Again, not an attack---just curious. Thomas - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/ "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: "rich hodder" Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 21:14:39 Subject: the_dojang: downunda Master Boothe, I am glad to hear you are going to be attending the MS seminar. Could you do me a favor and bring up one of those Austrailian Key holders and the video tape that shows one how to use it. Also you forgot in your accompanying credits to list that you are also the Co-Founder of that now famous Martial Art of Dough-Do(Emu Tao in Austrailia) See ya soon, Rich _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Alan Johnson Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:04:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Hapkido Master's?????????? I have been following this dialog with interest and appreciate Mr. Sim's comments and disappointments. He expressed some serious concerns and tried to contexualize them. However, I found "Master" Miller's comments to be, sorry, but rather petty. Complaining about another Master doing white belt techniques, really! And about 10th dan self-promotions, exactly who do you mean? Please define also what you mean "legitimate?" "Legitimate" by whose standards? Yours? Your seniors? Peers? Etc. There are many people with different levels of skill wearing the same rank. I know people who have difficulty doing any basic muscle-memory technique in a totally different way. This by no means means their technique is no good or their instructor as well. Everyone likes to feel important in the grand scheme of things. Some take it too far and promote themselves or flock to the shadow of others. Everyone has something worth while to share, even if it is poor examples! But, let's not resort to the who's biggest game. Alan Just a student still trying to get it right From: todd miller Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 07:03:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Master's?????????? I have seen the situations you have talked about. I will even take it a step beyond. Do the so called Master's & GM even know the intricacies of the Art? Without mentioning any names, I know of a Person who calls himself a master who when in Korea did not understand the white belt tech. in the least bit. but he claims that his style is different so it is ok even though he could not make any of his tech. work on them. A great many Hapkido Master's including myself have training in other arts and this is fine unless you try to mask your lack of knowledge in Hapkido by adding these other arts in place of the Hapkido curriculum. BTW I teach totally separate curriculums for all the Arts I teach. I have said this before but I think it bares repeating, If a Master is promoted to 4th dan and then promotes himself to 10th dan are the people he promotes to 7th dan legitimate Masters? Truthfully Master Todd Miller Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Assc. ------------------------------ From: Bernard Maginnity Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:51:25 +1100 (EETDT) Subject: the_dojang: ContactThe_Dojang-Digest V8 #75 (fwd) Cheree: I agree, Mr. Redfield, that the practice of pulling techniques does not lead to doing so in an actual fight/self-defense situation. After all, isn't control the key element of Martial Arts? Ray: It is when your art's focus in on non-contact sparring. But IMHO if your art has a more self-defense focus to it, then control, i.e. pulling techniques, will not benefit the -average- student. Having started in TSD I have lived in both camps of thought. Perhaps someday I will return... :) People take martial arts for a wide variety of reasons, but for me the key element of martial arts is survival. I have to agree with Mr Terry on this one. I started out in a Taekwon-do club which was very "artistic" for want of a better term. High emphasis on correct techniques, stances and heaps of time on getting Hyung correct. We were NO contact. We practiced on bags and things. Next club I was at had a "realist" instructor. Brown belts and above needed to be able to take a hit. That was fine until one senior class I was sparrng a Brown belt (6'5" and at least as tall to boot) and the Instructor was yelling "hit him!" to me. I couldn't get near him because he knew I was trying to hit him and he didn't want to get hit. Now, I wouldn't say that I am good, but I am inproving with a little more "light" contact training. Bernard Maginnity ------------------------------ From: "Yarchak, Mary Kay" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:27:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Facing Knives In re: getting cut, Alain responded to Ray: <<<>>>> A question for Alain, Ray, anyone else: What do you see as the major differences in approach between traditional MA and street defense? (I haven't had a chance to check out the strictly street stuff outside of TSD core yet - so much information to study, so little time ;-) - but am still trying to get a handle on how our training methods affect how we handle it when things get ugly for real... ) (The following said with flashing newbie sign turned on): For me, hearing in my training "you will get cut" was important and definitely of more good than harm. I think it gives me the mental prep I need so that I won't totally lose my concentration if it happens - not that getting cut has to happen, but that it's not an automatic loss, or reason to lose it mentally, if it does. (Could be scary though... I never have been real big on the sight of my own blood... But then, most folks aren't: try being the official blood drive "coordinator" (coerce-er..."vampire"...) sometime if you doubt me... ) We go over knife defense moves in class every so often but it wasn't until our kyosanim had us "free attack" each other with knives at reasonably close range that the point (no pun intended) really sank in. It suddenly became clear to me exactly how not easy knife defense was for me and how likely I was to sustain an injury if I was that close and the attacker really wanted to cut me. I think I vote for Ray's boot-fu... as in the immortal words of the folks facing the rabbit in MP's Holy Grail ... RUN AWAY. Tang Soo, MK ------------------------------ From: Bernard Maginnity Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:26:57 +1100 (EETDT) Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Lite Could someone please clarify for me a couple of things? If I don't practice the full Hapkido curriculum every class then I am not practicing Hapkido? If I am a kid and I am doing full Hapkido or any other, it is not hapkido because I cannot truely practice Hapkido nor hope to understand it because I am a kid? If I am learning Hapkido in any form or at any level, I am not practicing Hapkido because I need to have Mastered Hapkido and be practising 'ALL' the techniques of classical Hapkido to be learning Hapkido? Just curious. So basically, I will need to be a Ninth Degree Master who does not teach and trains personally for about ten to fifteen hours a day in all of the traditional Hapkido techniques to be said to be 'learning Hapkido' in any form? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Bernard Maginnity ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:35:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Self Promotion I've seen some discussion on this list and another about martial artists who with not a vast amount of experience that either split off from their parent organization or start their own Kwan and become grandmaster. How do yall really feel about these guys? Would you ever join their organizations? I read in this one guy's book he wrote that after training for only about 9 years he started his own Kwan and organization. He boasts of having quite a few dan members, but looking closely at his requirements he only required 1.5 years to dan level. This "grandmaster" has a pretty successful organization, I know at least here in the US, and I believe in many countries as well including Korea. ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:05:36 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Quarter Century milestone This year marks a major milestone for me. I began my martial arts career 25 years ago in Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do at the late age of 18 (although in my physical prime). Now I have a lot less hair, instead of a 6-pack just one big ab, aches and pains that take forever to heal, a bad lower back and some neck problems to go with my graying beard. I sure don't leave the ground like I used to on the jump spinning kicks and break a sweat demonstrating a basic technique. But I'm still hanging in here, a lifelong student of the arts. I think if I hang around long enough, I'll keep looking more and more like the Happy Buda :-) Student of the arts, Mac ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:44:47 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Facing Knives > In re: getting cut, Alain responded to Ray: > <<< tend to be with are "survival" or "Street self Defense" people. Bit > different in approaches and backgrounds.>>>>> I guess I missed that one. People like Cacoy Canete, Remy Presas, and Leo Gaje are clearly far more street than MA instructors. Given our legal system, I doubt we have anyone in the US or Western Europe that have similar experiences. > A question for Alain, Ray, anyone else: What do you see as the major > differences in approach between traditional MA and street defense? My take... In the case of knife defense, -IMHO- most of the stuff you find in Hapkido, Hwarang Do, Tang Soo Do, Taekwondo, etc. just doesn't cut it(no pun intended). It frequently depends on being attacked by someone that is untrained in handling a knife, that will overextend their attack. I'd rather not have to depend on that. Arts like Eskrima/Kali/Arnis are street/reality based, they are not concerned with 'Do', making you a better person, and getting a good workout... more concerned with how to teach the members of your village how to attack and kill and/or defend against the members of the neighboring village. Also IMHO, this is why Eskrima isn't very popular in the US. It is too rude and crude for most of us. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:48:25 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #83 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.