From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #102 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 12 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 102 In this issue: the_dojang: KHF dan requirements the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #101 the_dojang: Knees the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #101 the_dojang: Re: Question on contract fees, etc. the_dojang: Re: The Dog Brothers the_dojang: SCARS the_dojang: Re: Cameo Belt Re: the_dojang: Re: The Dog Brothers the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:08:24 PST Subject: the_dojang: KHF dan requirements FYI. From our KHF 7th Dan friend Holcombe Thomas. Ray From the KHF, first dan requirements: I. Self-defense (wrist and clothing grabs). (1) Same-side wrist grab (e.g., right hand grabs left wrist) -- strike, joint lock, throw (one each). (2) Clothing/body grabs, from the front -- sleeve end, mid-sleeve, rear of the collar, front lapel (straight on, lifting, and with hand reversed, i.e., thumb pointing down), belt grabs (with fingers pointing both up and down), hair grabs, (all one handed), front bear hugs (both under and over the defender's arms). (3) Clothing/body grabs, from the rear -- one-handed collar grab, both shoulders (with both hands), both elbows, both wrists (at defender's sides and with wrists pulled back), rear bear hugs (both under and over defender's arms). NOTE: Any defenses are okay for #'s 2 and 3, but testers do ask for additional techniques and sometimes specify a strike, lock, or throw. (4) Cross-hand wrist grab (e.g., right hand to right wrist) -- strike, lock, throw (one each). II. Defenses against fist strikes/punches, after blocking -- strike, lock, throw (one each). III. Defenses against kicks (side kicks) -- strike, lock, throw (one each). IV. Defenses against attacks (1) Against attempts to grab, defending as the attack comes -- strike, lock, throw (one each). (2) After being grabbed, any two defenses, may be in any category. (3) Against throws, any two defenses, may be in any category. NOTES: I think that a testee would be better off with a strike and a throw here, for example, than with two strikes. These attacks differ from those in #1 in that they are dynamic; they are done on the move. In #1, the attacks are from static positions. V. Initiative techniques (a poor translation; the Chinese characters literally mean "before technique." The defender seizes the initiative and moves first. -- Strike, lock, throw (one each). NOTE: Police-style arrest techniques are part of this grouping. VI. Breakfalls -- Hwe Jon Nak Pop, turning breakfall, flipping in the air into a side breakfall/roll. NOTE: I don't think I have ever seen a test in Korea, at any rank, which did not include rolls and often other breakfalls. VII. Basic kicks -- straight-leg rising heel kick (straight leg raise, basically, to the front), side kick, round-house kick, hook kick, inside and outside crescent kicks. NOTE: Variations of any and all are fair game for the examiner. VIII. Advanced kicks -- spinning hook kick (head level), jump spinning hook kick (to the head), mid-level spinning hook kick (from more-or-less a ready stance), sitting/lower level spinning hook kick, double front kicks (to the front, both feet together, and to the sides), double side kick (i.e., with same foot, kicking low/mid, usu. as a fake, and then high). NOTES: 1. These are the association's minimums. Individual instructors can, and do, add additional requirements. 2. Self-defense techniques are divided into strikes, joint locks, and throws. Joint locks typically hyper-extend a joint (most often the elbow) or twist the joint (wrists). Throws off-balance the opponent, generally, but not always, without causing pain (at until impact). The yudo/judo-derived throws are examples. A throw with twisting the wrist is generally classified at a joint-lock, even if the lock serves only to take the opponent's balance. 3. At times, examiners will ask for additional techniques or kicks. If the examiner knows that a student knows more advanced techniques (knife or sword take-aways or the various bong kisul, for instance, or if the examiner thinks the testee is particularly good in given area, these techniques may be requested. 4. In my school, at least, my instructor does not generally test his own students. An old friend of his, from our sister school, typically tests our students. My instructor reciprocates by testing his friend's students. This keeps the system a bit more honest, perhaps, and induces a little more stress in the students. 5. Obligatory disclaimer: The translation is mine, as are any errors. The notes are mine, as well, and reflect my observations and understanding of the techniques and the testing process. If something is not accurate, I apologize. 6. There is nothing to stop an individual instructor from adding additional requirements. 7. As near as I can tell, there is no set curriculum -- just responses to specific attacks. Different schools do different techniques first, though most are pretty much on the same schedule. ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:01:47 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #101 In a message dated 2/11/2001 5:02:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << > << http://users.ev1.net/~D.McHenry/files/karate.mpe >> > > cannot seem to get here ... Keep trying. It worked fine for me... >> Yep, it is working fine now ... had to reboot thee ol' computer and try it again ... funny ! Illona ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:43:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Knees Gary Kloster writes: > One of the > presenters main points was on how women tend to suffer 2 to 8 times as > many knee injuries as men, depending on the sport. Sports involving lots > of cutting motions and quick turns (ahem, MA) were of course the > hardest on the knees. They are not sure exactly why this is the case, Hello Gary: Because of a difference in the pelvic region, the angle (valgus/varus) of the upper legs in women is different than that of men. The increased rate of injury that your presenter mentioned may be related to this. Ofcourse, the motions you mentioned (quick turns etc.) are definitely something that increases potential damage to the knees of either gender. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:17:41 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #101 > From: Ray Terry > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:33:06 PST > Subject: the_dojang: working fine > > > << http://users.ev1.net/~D.McHenry/files/karate.mpe >> > > > > cannot seem to get here ... > > Keep trying. It worked fine for me... > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > You keep on forgetting. She is aol.com. She probally has to have a different kind of file. Donna ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 04:56:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Question on contract fees, etc. I was following the thread on contracts previously discussed herein. I now offer this question. If an individual has a month to month contract with a school, and it is on a family basis, what occurs in this situation. An individual leaves the country for several weeks or a month. This individual and his family is unable to attend for the time period due to either a vacation or business. If the individual has pre-paid for the month's time period of instruction, should the school/instructor provide a credit for the month the individual and his family were unable to attend. Should the instructor permit the pre-paid monthly fee to be applied to the subsequent month when the individual returns from vacation or a business trip. Thanks, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:03:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The Dog Brothers Ray T wrote: < Response: I previously reviewed the Dog Brothers and their fights. As one gets older does one want to receive severe knocks on the head from sticks. What protective equipment do they now use ? What I viewed seemed to suggest that there is a lot of Macho testosterone or other joy out of having your head and body scrambled by high velocity sticks. What safety precautions do these bad ass dudes take ? McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:50:28 EST Subject: the_dojang: SCARS Coming from a TKD linage that is mostly sport oriented, I like SCARS, for many reasons. Here are some. 1. Target oriented (as opposed to technique oriented) 2. Very aggressive (self offense, not self defense) 3. Low maintenance (easy to remember without 100's of repetitions) 4. Use of body reaction to strikes I originally purchased the HCS videos series when they first came out. Was NOT impressed. Put them away. A couple of years later I purchased the SCARS videos on weapon disarmament and loved them. SCARS may very well be based on Kung Fu San Soo. Some of their claims and comments are the same. That doesn't credit or discredit the SCARS system however. From what I read, I think Kung Fu San Soo is a system that I would very much enjoy. I never got into martial arts for sport, although that is where I found myself. Lew Hicks (http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm) does make some very derogatory comments about SCARS, jealously perhaps? Don't know, he and Peterson used to be friends and obviously no longer are. Read Peterson's comments at: http://www.scars.com/wannabes_faq.html#1 Magazine article on SCARS. http://www.scars.com/article2.html Continuing on what I like about SCARS. As mentioned, very aggressive. In fact almost every disarm ends up in a break. Instead of grabbing the weapon (as in the TRS video I have), one attacks the limb holding the weapon, usually ending up breaking it. Very smooth fluid motions. Video also show line of fire with the handguns. I bought a knife fighting video from a prominent martial artist. It was very impressive and he was very good. But did I want to spend all those hours training over and over and over to get that good in what I consider high maintenance techniques? And then if I slack off on my practice, lose my timing? No, I prefer something much simpler, low maintenance. Krav Maga. I'm sure their disarm videos are good. Don't know as I haven't seen them. I do have a friend in another city in Texas who completed converted his successful TKD school to a Krav Maga school. Don't know how he's doing since the conversion, haven't been over there in a couple of years. I love TKD and Hapkido. I love teaching and doing the high flying Hollywood kicks (although at age 44 I don't fly as high anymore!). But I must say that the SCARS program has given me something more, something that was missing. If in fact it is based on Kung Fu San Soo, it's too bad I didn't find that art years ago. Guess I've rambled a bit, not something I've done too much on this digest, but it was my turn! gary pieratt In a message dated 2/11/01 7:02:26 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Tell us more about Peterson's SCARS program. I know that his first(?) series of tapes called HCS (Hostile Control System) were pretty bogus. Peterson himself was briefly a student of Bill Hulsey in Kung Fu San Soo (a style founded by Jimmy Woo that doesn't look much like a typical Kung Fu style) and I've heard from several that SCARS is similar to the San Soo techniques that are learned up through about green belt level. But -I- have not personally seen the SCARS tapes, just talked to several that have. They were not at all impressed. >> ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:20:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cameo Belt Yes, the Camo belt is utilized in Songahm TaeKwonDo, aka ATA. It was introduced, and was widely adopted in the mid to late 1980s. The symbolism is that the young "pine tree" is hidden among the other trees in the forest, and begins the struggle, and the growth, upward. (Songahm translates to pine tree and rock). At that level, the 6th gup (Camo) and the 5th gup (Green) belts not only begin sparring, but also maintain training in one-step sparring drills as well. This overlap attempts to give them the confidence and a foundation for free sparring techniques. As the round kick, or round-house kick, is introduced in the Songahm TKD curriculum at 8th gup (Orange belt), if a particular student is unaware of it, it is most likely due to their own lack of attention, or poor instruction, not the style of TKD. While it is regrettable that in either situation the student is actually promoted, it would seem that their particular situation somehow allowed them to get away with it: the Orange and Yellow (7th gup) belt forms utilize round kicks (4 and 2, respectfully), as well as the one-step sparring drills for both ranks containing round kicks! There will be good and bad in all aspects of life. For those who choose, perseverance and patience will allow you to quietly achieve your goals. Mark Lasich mark.lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 7:54:59 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The Dog Brothers > Response: I previously reviewed the Dog Brothers and their fights. As one > gets older does one want to receive severe knocks on the head from sticks. > What protective equipment do they now use ? What I viewed seemed to suggest > that there is a lot of Macho testosterone or other joy out of having your > head and body scrambled by high velocity sticks. > > What safety precautions do these bad ass dudes take ? Not much. Light fencing helmet, mouth piece, cup, padded gloves. I've attended several (watching only) and haven't seen very many even halfway serious injuries. Mostly just stick hickies. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 7:55:56 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #102 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.