From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #110 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 14 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 110 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Bugs, and fungus and yucchi stuff the_dojang: Belt colors & Contracts the_dojang: Re: Simultaneous Training the_dojang: Re:18 months to BB the_dojang: Re: On being honorable vs. smart choices the_dojang: Re: Sponsoring the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 the_dojang: Bare knuckles the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 the_dojang: who shot JR the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:55:52 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bugs, and fungus and yucchi stuff Dear Ken: "....New topic. How do you school owners and instructors handle hygiene problems in your schools ? ..." Perhaps I am in a little different situation as my students must actually make contact with each other to train so I tend to be a bit of a stickler about such things. Its not that I take a lot of joy in exercising my authority in these matters, but a student I feel has a right to be able to train in pleasant, safe surroundings. To some degree I tend to rely on studnets to select themselves out if they have a communicative condition such as fungus, yeast or bacterial infections. Since I teach adults most of the other problems tend to take care of themselves. However, I still make a point of occasionally mentioning issues such as mites, crabs, lice and fleas even though these are far and away the exception than the rule. I also expect discharges such as runny noses, eye and ear infections, cuts, sores and abrasions to be addressed before a person gets on the mat. The same goes for digestive problems that can produce gas, bad breath, spastic colon and cramps. I'll even take it one step farther and report that I have, on occasion, suspended a person from training ("time out") until he can get "his head right". I can't stop a person from having a bad day. I can stop that person from making his problem everyone elses problem. Mental hygiene is important to and is an important part of Hapkido. In some way I suspect that the student is trusting that I will provide a safe environment in which to train, so these are the things I think of when my class meets. best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Luc Nguyen" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:12:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt colors & Contracts As Asian, I learned that white is the color of mourning, it is also the color of purity and innocence. Black is the color of death. - ---------- In Asia, for a long time, MA masters only accept a few choice students. Masters usually has another mean for living but students and their families should also contribute whatever they can to the masters. Fees are never to be discussed. Masters are more important to the students than parents. Trainings mostly took place in backyards. In recent years, larger MA schools started to appear. Masters still have another mean for living. (My Aikido Master was a Naval officer, My TKD Master was an instructor at the Police Academy). Fees are established on a monthly basis, but no contract. Fees are still considered as Honorary and not strictly enforced. Students, very respectful of teachers, would never even think about not paying. Students without an ability to pay usually help out before or after classes to keep the school clean. High ranking students are expected to help out at the school, even at the Masters' home. It is usually an honor and a privilege to help the Masters in class. Trainings are done in semi-public places such as a school yard (This is where I practiced TKD) or at a temple (This is where I learned Aikido). Gyms and stadiums are some other common places for MA trainings. Rich MA Masters (by some other means) usually buy his own place (there is no concept of a mortgage) to live and train there. Working very closely with my TKD master, I trained 2-3 hrs/day, 6 days/week and got my 1st degree blackbelt in 4 years (this was in 1972). May be we are all slow but I don't know anybody of my peers at the time who got his Blackbelt in 18 months. It is just another time and another expectation. Luc ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:30:14 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Simultaneous Training > > > A question for everyone. Does your school/organization have a policy on > > training simultaneously with a different organization or MA? > > > > Brian Woodard > > Dirty Brown Belt TKD In the United States, the ITF doesn't appear to have any rules on this. You can train where ever you want. Personally, I don't like my students to do anything else until black belt. This gives them a chance to get some basics frist and keeps the confusion down. Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:29:14 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re:18 months to BB I'm certainly hoping to get promoted to black belt 18 months from now...of course, I'm 3rd gup at the moment :) - -JW >From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:47:15 EST >Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #108 >In a message dated 2/14/01 12:05:01 AM Central Standard Time, >the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: >>What I said was "if" the student only comes once or twice a week >>and only practices an hour every week at home ... why would I >>promote them to black in only 18 months? >Why promote anyone to black belt in 18 months? Doesn't make sense! >gary ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:56:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: On being honorable vs. smart choices While waiting for additional information on my hygiene question from instructors, I ran across this partial message from Mike T, re: <. I apologize for going overboard in some of my discussions, I thought I was talking to people who understood these kinds of concepts and actually practiced them ALL the time, not just when it sounded good or after they read a book about Martial Arts while they were on vacation! My bad,, I guess if you practice half heartedly then you would probably pay half heartedly also,, no disrespect to you folks just some personal insight to myself and who I am dealing with... I applaude you Mr. Sims for cutting through all fog!! Michael > Response: You have taken this issue to heart and for that you can only answer to yourself. Personally, I understand both sides of the issue. If I was a school owner perhaps I would have the same "black and white" decision line as you. But, I am a consumer of services. Moreover, you seem to equate honor and virtue with basic consumerism concepts. For some reason, if a student asks an instructor, whom he may have developed a close relationship with, for a break or credit-- this is deemed not honorable by you ? Respectfully, I miss the logic and summary conclusion you formulate. Not to say your thoughts are incorrect. But to say your concept of honor is vastly different than mine. For example, I think an honorable man deals with others honorably by being up front and asking for a credit. If that individual is declined then you have alternatives. Yet, to presume that wanting to negotiate on fee payments is dishonorable escapes me. Nevertheless, your entitled to this sense of nobility and no one can fault you for your thoughts. Perhaps you should travel to other lands and see how other cultures equate finances and relationships. Then remove the Americanism from you conceptual base. Maybe you will have insight to what is honorable or not. If you were a true martial artist as you say, then perhaps the money issue would not be a major concern as you seem to focus on. On the other hand, I understand that school owners must pay bills and overhead. I did not get off the banana boat yesterday. While I do not personally have a gripe with various issues on this topic, I find it interesting that a well known Grand Master in the PI has a different perspective than a Master in the U.S. This was a juxtaposition. My questions and the subsequent responses help me formulate a conclusion. For all the knowledge you think you may have on virtue and honor go to a third world country and see how relationships are formed and nurtured. Then discuss with me your thoughts about honor versus money. Peace, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:04:13 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sponsoring In a message dated 2/14/2001 7:40:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Proud Sponsor of the 10th Annual 2001 US Open Taekwondo Championships >> Melinda ... You are one of the sponsors ?? How cool ! You go, girl ! Did they come to you and ask or did you offer it to them ? Illona ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:37:38 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 << > I teach a Tae kwon do class for kids. I have about 11 or 12 students at the moment. I was > wondering if anyone out there teaches there younger students what ki is, and if so, what do you > teach and how? >> I tell the children (4-7). "Everyone has some special power inside them that helps them do things even when they think they cannot do it. It's the feeling you get when you have to concentrate hard to break a board. It's the last bit of energy you find when you are tired in class. It's what makes you Ki hup louder than any other student in the Do Jang..." Young children will eventually 'feel' their own meaning of Ki, just as adults will. Many children have the limitless ability to understand 'abstract' concepts, some do not. I would not stray away from that subject because there is a chance some will not understand... 2 more cents (you should all be investing my donations, they are really adding up:>) - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:59:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Bare knuckles UTAKOTKD@aol.com posited the following query. >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bare-Knuckle vs. One-Step Sparring > >I would like some feedback on this issue. Does any one think a student would >benefit >more from bare-knuckle fighting or one-step-sparring. > >wsj Oh, definitely Bare-knuckle. Otherwise how can you know what blood running into your eyes and obscuring your vision feels like? Or what a tooth can do to a knuckle? Or how hard a head actually is? Or what a concussion is? I would also recommend practice on the pavement, or at the very least, gravel. Otherwise you'll never know the exquisite pleasure of having your face scraped off by concrete. I would give this one bit of advice, whatever you do, do not, under any circumstances, call it "Bare-knuckle Hapkido". - ----- Big Ken had a question about "gas" in the Dojang. One evening during one of my training sessions my instructor let a little "toot" as he was kicking. He indicated that we should do the same kick, and I (stupidly) asked if we should "ki-hap" as he had just done. That very night I gained a new appreciation of push-ups. Plus, I now have a "push-up" account with my master that draws interest. Last I knew my account balance was around 1800, and he is not willing to let me pay down the principle. He keeps telling me "The time will come when you will pay this off."... It obviously has not stopped me from being a smart-ass, but I do relegate my S/A comments to non-class periods now. have a groovy day, dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:48:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 In a message dated 2/13/01 8:31:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Master West's HKD >> Is this Clarence West? ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:48:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #107 << (Yes, Saturday night. You expect us martial artists to have social lives?) >> I have never heard a more true coment... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:33:38 PST Subject: the_dojang: who shot JR > << Master West's HKD >> > Is this Clarence West? No, HKD Master JR West, a member of this forum. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:34:22 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #110 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.