From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #115 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 15 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 115 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Bartering the_dojang: Re: Tournaments and Interference the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 the_dojang: Re: Cross Training the_dojang: How many class locations do you attend? the_dojang: Re: Re: Misplaced sense of obligation the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #113 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:57:44 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bartering In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << P.S. To some of you U.S. instructors, have you considered bartering with some of your students who have special skills. For example, a good auto mechanic will fix your car for free if you give him free lessons. Your hairdresser will give free haircuts and manicures for free or discounted lessons. Or does the fee system solely rely on your expected payment in cash from the student ? >> Glad you brought that up, Ken. Yes, I have gotten my car fixed on numerous occasions this way. Four brand new tires ... spectator chairs for my school from another student ... signs for outside ... food from so many students I was starting to gain weight ! The last thing I bartered for was some electrical stuff to be done in the school from a man who is a electrician. He also put in some better security lights that will save me money in my monthly electric bills. The list is endless. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:08:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Tournaments and Interference In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The flow of a specific match should not be interrupted by ANY spectator, this includes the Instructors of the competitors. The training has taken place, the competitors have prepared - the match must unfold as it will. >> Gee, you should come watch an open tournament sometime ... where utter chaos reigns and parents have a right to interfere. I used to enjoy going and helping out judging all day long at these things ... but a couple years back was the final straw for me. It took us four hours one time to get one kid's ring done. All because of a few parents who wouldn't shut up and kept asking for an arbitrator for everything little thing that was done in the ring. They were in our faces all day long ... and it isn't because we, the black belt judges, didn't ask the promoter of the tournament to make a ruling that they stay out of it ... nope, he was more on the parent's / coaches sides than ours. So I said "no thank you." If you go to one you will see numerous people inside of the ringed in areas ... and these aren't competitors ... they are friends of competitors, parents, coaches ... and who knows? It is chock full of people milling around. Hard to watch what is going on in all the rings with these people in there. So at an open tournament we have to keep walking around to see everything. I still go and watch ... but I refuse to judge anymore. And as I watch this tournament (I am speaking about a really big one that is coming up this weekend ... three days worth) ... I will be watching to see how they handle the spectators, parents, coaches that interfere. Because they will ... they always have at this one ... and as long as the promoter allows it ... it will continue. There is something to be said for these "Traditional Tournaments" ... where the spectators, parents, coaches are not allowed down on the floor with the competitors or to interfere with the judges decisions. If they do ... the competitor is eliminated ... no questions asked. Illona ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:09:20 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 In a message dated 2/15/01 10:16:31 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Dear all, You may be interested to know that it snowed all day in Seoul today. >> AND you may interested that is 78 degrees out in Castroville, Texas today! Hee Hee. gary New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:12:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 In a message dated 2/15/01 10:16:31 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << McD... P.S. To some of you U.S. instructors, have you considered bartering with some of your students who have special skills. For example, a good auto mechanic will fix your car for free if you give him free lessons. Your hairdresser will give free haircuts and manicures for free or discounted lessons. Or does the fee system solely rely on your expected payment in cash from the student ? >> One of the very first questions the IRS asks in an audit is " do you barter with anyone?" ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:15:47 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 <> In my style it takes 15 years to get a black belt. That means that our black belts are much better than your black belts AND the 18 month black belts combined. I would hate to see one of our 15 year black belts in a contact fight with one of your pitiful 4 year black belts. Are you proficient at driving your car? Are you proficient at riding a bicycle? If both does that somehow make you less proficient at either? "John Bennett" >> O.K. Here's my rebuttal: 15 years to get a BB? What style are you studying? What keeps you motivated to stay w/ it? You, Sir, are certainly my hero if you can commit yourself to anything that takes 15 years to get to the first steppingstone! I have serious doubts that one can absorb the holistic element of 2 Martial Arts at once...so sue me. I also know that, because I have friends that have achieved a BB in 18 months, (the majority of them) do poorly in competition against those who train much longer to attain BB. It seems perfectly logical: The longer you train, the more proficient you become. I meant not to slight the 18-month BB practitioners, it was just an observation. By the way, did you mean to come across like an arrogant little man or are you just being sarcastic? - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:19:51 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cross Training In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I believe that a student CAN be training in different disciplines, IF they seek they are using the arts as a way to become a better person. >> I think if you are a brand new student to the arts ... any arts ... and you don't have a base as of yet ... NO, do not train in multiple arts. It is hard to assimulate them all when you are brand new and you can get them mixed up in your mind and heart. Finish one art (get to black or beyond) ... and then taste some of the other arts out there. I encourage my students to do so. But not while they are "learning" the first art. I totally believe in crosstraining. But no one will be banned from my school if they do choose to go to another school. But don't think I will be understanding when you say you have to go to their belt test over mine. It will be your choice and I will ask you to test when I test your rank level again, and not before. But I have had students as high as Red Belt (we go red, brown and then black here) ... and then train in another school while they were here ... and get confused to the point that the kids were crying in class because they would do something from the other school here and then do something we do in the other school and they would be screamed at. We didn't scream at them ... but they were constantly afraid of getting things wrong. I kept trying to explain to them that there is no wrong way ... just a different way. They eventually quit my school to go to the other school because the other school did tournaments and the mom loved the idea of her two girls winning trophies (they were enrolled at the other school as yellow belts and were winning in tournaments as yellow belts ... and then would brag to me about it and I told them that the day they entered a tournament as a red belt and won a trophy then I would be proud of them). The other school has since closed their doors. The two girls ? They are probably out looking for something else to "compete" in. Everyone has a different path. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:21:39 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: How many class locations do you attend? I was reading Mr Sims survey ( although I am TKD ) and it got me thinking. How many of us attend classes at several locations under different instructors vs. a single-location single-instructor? I study at: 1) my employer's rec center, taught by a 3rd Dan, rubberized gym floor, all belt levels age 16 and up ( rec center limitation ) 2) one of the local YMCAs, taught by a 5th Dan, hardwood gym floor, all ages and belt levels 3) at our school's main academy, a weekly BB class taught by our 8th Dan Grand Master, on carpet, ( The carpet is hell on the toes but sure improves the landings on jumping kicks ), and a Saturday class (taught by a 5th Dan) for all ages/levels where camaraderie and a sense of family is emphasized. BB classes are sometimes held on weekends too. This seems to be typical of many of the students in the school I attend. How about the rest of MA land? How unusual is this? Kerry TKD ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:00:00 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Re: Misplaced sense of obligation What did I miss? Barter is better than money? Dojang rent is paid in barter? Insurance is paid in barter? We call it TRADE. Whether you take money, haircuts or roasted chickens. If you get something that could have been sold for money, instead of money, your ethical (and tax) situation is the same. Maybe what I do for a living is not sellable to my instructor. What if he's a bald vegetarian and I'm a butcher/barber? Money is not a bad thing. Or a good thing. It just is. And just because you offer compensation that suits you doesn't make it a deal. The other guy has to agree. And why do you think my instructor tried to refuse payment? Could it have been that he was satisfied with the other compensation he received from me? What I received from him was worth far more than money to me, but that doesn't mean that paying him was wrong. Every school and university I ever attended wanted to trade money for education. This is 21st century America, not some place living in the past. My doctor gets paid money, my paper boy gets paid money, I put money in the collection plate on Sunday. And until my instructor retired I paid him money for instruction. I wish I could keep paying him and he keep teaching me. If somewhere in this you find guilt, it's because you brought it with you. Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:07:47 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #113 > From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:43:44 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: Charges, Credits and Contracts > > Also, I grade on a 75% must system on each section of the test to pass, not 60% > overall. > Just some thoughts. > > Danny Dunn > Do most schools grade tests with percents and is 60% a pass? 60% in my experience (schools like high school and college, etc) is a D not a pass. 75% is a C. In my school, 80% is a passing level up to 4th gup, but all skills must be 80% and up, not below. The higher the rank the tougher the grade to pass. BB tests require a student to get 90% or better on all aspects, less and he fails. Spunky > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:20:52 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112 Hey John Bennett my style is better than your style! How old are you anyway? In the midst of laughter, David Woods ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:44:58 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #115 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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