From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #115
Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Precedence:
The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 15 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 115
In this issue:
the_dojang: Re: Bartering
the_dojang: Re: Tournaments and Interference
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
the_dojang: Re: Cross Training
the_dojang: How many class locations do you attend?
the_dojang: Re: Re: Misplaced sense of obligation
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #113
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
the_dojang: .
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: MissIllona@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:57:44 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bartering
In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< P.S. To some of you U.S. instructors, have you considered bartering with
some of your students who have special skills. For example, a good auto
mechanic will fix your car for free if you give him free lessons. Your
hairdresser will give free haircuts and manicures for free or discounted
lessons. Or does the fee system solely rely on your expected payment in
cash from the student ? >>
Glad you brought that up, Ken. Yes, I have gotten my car fixed on numerous
occasions this way. Four brand new tires ... spectator chairs for my school
from another student ... signs for outside ... food from so many students I
was starting to gain weight ! The last thing I bartered for was some
electrical stuff to be done in the school from a man who is a electrician.
He also put in some better security lights that will save me money in my
monthly electric bills.
The list is endless.
Illona
------------------------------
From: MissIllona@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:08:58 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Tournaments and Interference
In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< The flow of a specific match should not be interrupted by ANY spectator,
this includes the Instructors of the competitors. The training has taken
place, the competitors have prepared - the match must unfold as it will. >>
Gee, you should come watch an open tournament sometime ... where utter chaos
reigns and parents have a right to interfere.
I used to enjoy going and helping out judging all day long at these things
... but a couple years back was the final straw for me. It took us four
hours one time to get one kid's ring done. All because of a few parents who
wouldn't shut up and kept asking for an arbitrator for everything little
thing that was done in the ring. They were in our faces all day long ... and
it isn't because we, the black belt judges, didn't ask the promoter of the
tournament to make a ruling that they stay out of it ... nope, he was more on
the parent's / coaches sides than ours. So I said "no thank you."
If you go to one you will see numerous people inside of the ringed in areas
... and these aren't competitors ... they are friends of competitors,
parents, coaches ... and who knows? It is chock full of people milling
around. Hard to watch what is going on in all the rings with these people in
there. So at an open tournament we have to keep walking around to see
everything.
I still go and watch ... but I refuse to judge anymore. And as I watch this
tournament (I am speaking about a really big one that is coming up this
weekend ... three days worth) ... I will be watching to see how they handle
the spectators, parents, coaches that interfere. Because they will ... they
always have at this one ... and as long as the promoter allows it ... it will
continue.
There is something to be said for these "Traditional Tournaments" ... where
the spectators, parents, coaches are not allowed down on the floor with the
competitors or to interfere with the judges decisions. If they do ... the
competitor is eliminated ... no questions asked.
Illona
------------------------------
From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:09:20 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
In a message dated 2/15/01 10:16:31 AM Central Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< Dear all,
You may be interested to know that it snowed all day in Seoul today.
>>
AND you may interested that is 78 degrees out in Castroville, Texas today!
Hee Hee.
gary
New CKC Web Page
------------------------------
From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:12:26 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
In a message dated 2/15/01 10:16:31 AM Central Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< McD...
P.S. To some of you U.S. instructors, have you considered bartering with
some of your students who have special skills. For example, a good auto
mechanic will fix your car for free if you give him free lessons. Your
hairdresser will give free haircuts and manicures for free or discounted
lessons. Or does the fee system solely rely on your expected payment in
cash from the student ? >>
One of the very first questions the IRS asks in an audit is " do you barter
with anyone?"
------------------------------
From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:15:47 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
<>
In my style it takes 15 years to get a black belt.
That means that our black belts are much better than your black belts AND
the 18 month black belts combined.
I would hate to see one of our 15 year black belts in a contact fight with
one of your pitiful 4 year black belts.
Are you proficient at driving your car? Are you proficient at riding a
bicycle? If both does that somehow make you less proficient at either?
"John Bennett" >>
O.K. Here's my rebuttal:
15 years to get a BB? What style are you studying? What keeps you motivated
to stay w/ it? You, Sir, are certainly my hero if you can commit yourself to
anything that takes 15 years to get to the first steppingstone!
I have serious doubts that one can absorb the holistic element of 2 Martial
Arts at once...so sue me. I also know that, because I have friends that have
achieved a BB in 18 months, (the majority of them) do poorly in competition
against those who train much longer to attain BB. It seems perfectly logical:
The longer you train, the more proficient you become.
I meant not to slight the 18-month BB practitioners, it was just an
observation.
By the way, did you mean to come across like an arrogant little man or are
you just being sarcastic?
- -Cheree
------------------------------
From: MissIllona@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:19:51 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cross Training
In a message dated 2/15/2001 8:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< I believe that a student CAN be training in different disciplines, IF
they seek they are using the arts as a way to become a better person. >>
I think if you are a brand new student to the arts ... any arts ... and you
don't have a base as of yet ... NO, do not train in multiple arts. It is
hard to assimulate them all when you are brand new and you can get them mixed
up in your mind and heart.
Finish one art (get to black or beyond) ... and then taste some of the other
arts out there. I encourage my students to do so. But not while they are
"learning" the first art. I totally believe in crosstraining.
But no one will be banned from my school if they do choose to go to another
school. But don't think I will be understanding when you say you have to go
to their belt test over mine. It will be your choice and I will ask you to
test when I test your rank level again, and not before.
But I have had students as high as Red Belt (we go red, brown and then black
here) ... and then train in another school while they were here ... and get
confused to the point that the kids were crying in class because they would
do something from the other school here and then do something we do in the
other school and they would be screamed at. We didn't scream at them ... but
they were constantly afraid of getting things wrong. I kept trying to
explain to them that there is no wrong way ... just a different way.
They eventually quit my school to go to the other school because the other
school did tournaments and the mom loved the idea of her two girls winning
trophies (they were enrolled at the other school as yellow belts and were
winning in tournaments as yellow belts ... and then would brag to me about it
and I told them that the day they entered a tournament as a red belt and won
a trophy then I would be proud of them).
The other school has since closed their doors. The two girls ? They are
probably out looking for something else to "compete" in.
Everyone has a different path.
Illona
------------------------------
From: "Atchinson, Kerry M"
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:21:39 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: How many class locations do you attend?
I was reading Mr Sims survey ( although I am TKD ) and it got me thinking.
How many of us attend classes at several locations under different
instructors vs. a single-location single-instructor? I study at:
1) my employer's rec center, taught by a 3rd Dan, rubberized gym floor, all
belt levels age 16 and up ( rec center limitation )
2) one of the local YMCAs, taught by a 5th Dan, hardwood gym floor, all ages
and belt levels
3) at our school's main academy, a weekly BB class taught by our 8th Dan
Grand Master, on carpet, ( The carpet is hell on the toes but sure improves
the landings on jumping kicks ), and a Saturday class (taught by a 5th Dan)
for all ages/levels where camaraderie and a sense of family is emphasized.
BB classes are sometimes held on weekends too.
This seems to be typical of many of the students in the school I attend.
How about the rest of MA land? How unusual is this?
Kerry
TKD
------------------------------
From: Emactkd@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:00:00 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Re: Misplaced sense of obligation
What did I miss? Barter is better than money? Dojang rent is paid in
barter? Insurance is paid in barter? We call it TRADE. Whether you take
money, haircuts or roasted chickens. If you get something that could have
been sold for money, instead of money, your ethical (and tax) situation is
the same.
Maybe what I do for a living is not sellable to my instructor. What if he's
a bald vegetarian and I'm a butcher/barber?
Money is not a bad thing. Or a good thing. It just is.
And just because you offer compensation that suits you doesn't make it a
deal. The other guy has to agree.
And why do you think my instructor tried to refuse payment? Could it have
been that he was satisfied with the other compensation he received from me?
What I received from him was worth far more than money to me, but that
doesn't mean that paying him was wrong. Every school and university I ever
attended wanted to trade money for education. This is 21st century America,
not some place living in the past. My doctor gets paid money, my paper boy
gets paid money, I put money in the collection plate on Sunday. And until my
instructor retired I paid him money for instruction. I wish I could keep
paying him and he keep teaching me. If somewhere in this you find guilt,
it's because you brought it with you.
Rick Foley
------------------------------
From: FGS & KVF
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:07:47 -0800
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #113
> From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA"
> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:43:44 -0600
> Subject: the_dojang: RE: Charges, Credits and Contracts
>
> Also, I grade on a 75% must system on each section of the test to pass, not 60%
> overall.
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Danny Dunn
>
Do most schools grade tests with percents and is 60% a pass? 60% in my experience (schools like high school and college, etc) is a D not a pass. 75% is a C. In my school, 80% is a passing level up to 4th gup, but all skills must be 80% and up, not below. The higher the rank the tougher the grade to pass. BB tests require a student to get 90% or better on all aspects, less and he fails.
Spunky
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
From: DWoods321@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:20:52 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #112
Hey John Bennett my style is better than your style! How old
are you anyway?
In the midst of laughter,
David Woods
------------------------------
From: Ray Terry
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:44:58 PST
Subject: the_dojang: .
------------------------------
End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #115
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