From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 26 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 138 In this issue: the_dojang: Utah Dojangs Re: the_dojang: BB Exams the_dojang: JR West's Seminar the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 the_dojang: ? for Master West the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 the_dojang: West's Hapkido Seminar the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 the_dojang: Hangul Font the_dojang: RE: TSD and TKD the_dojang: Re: TSD & TKD the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:31:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Utah Dojangs Dear All, I have a 9th Gup, 10 year old Tang Soo Do student who will be moving to South Jordan, Utah (near Salt Lake?). Any Tang Soo Do or traditional Taekwondo contacts in the area would be appreciated. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 9:03:03 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: BB Exams > Knife Form - Sam Dan Does your knife form start out like...??? Count Movement - ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Start Junbe position. 1 Look 90 degrees to left, execute a left single knifehand block in a back stance position (stepping out with the left foot). 2 Step forward into a right front stance (i.e., right foot forward) and execute two middle punches -- right hand, then left hand. 3 Look 180 degrees to the right (directly behind you, over your right shoulder), step out with the right foot and execute a right single knifehand block in a back stance position. etc... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:36:55 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: JR West's Seminar Coming to you from Seattle Washington. Left Jackson Mississippi for Houston this morning getting home just long enough to change out my underwear and head back to the airport. It’s been a long day, and I’m worn out after this great weekend I had. I started out at 10:00am this morning heading to the airport, and at 12:30am sitting in the Seattle airport where I’ll be waiting for another hour for the rest of my team to arrive, drinking my Café Mocha and typing on my laptop…. Listening to the symphony ….er…. Symphony & Metalica (S&M CD). So I thought I’d catch y’all up on this weekends happenings while I’m waiting. (I wrote this last night, got to my room at 4:00am) It was great to see some old friends and meet some new ones. When I arrived at the dojang, I saw Master Hal Whalen getting an early start already beating the snott out of some poor guys… but it looked so cool! I found a few of the people whom I’ve been corresponding with through the DD or privately and said hi to them. We got started Friday night with Master Perry Lyons teaching clothing grabs, Master Mike Kuns with seated self defense, and instructors from West’s Hapkido doing wrist techniques. Next session Master James Allison taught short stick, Master Jere Hilland taught two finger techniques (hurt like hell), and I did spin kicks. There were several people presented with rank promotions as well. We all had a great time and good workout. I went to dinner with Master Hilland, his beautiful wife Jennifer and his mutants. One of them fancy places where they make designs with your food. Jere seemed to love those apple martini’s. … I stayed with my Tangsoodo friends from Georgia. Saturday morning we met Dr. He-Young Kimm as he stopped by to say hello and autograph his books. All the instructors (and Master Ott) each took turns performing demonstrations in front of the crowd. There was a lot of awesome talent there! We split up into different rooms at the hotel with West’s Hapkido doing finishing techniques, Master Kuns doing seated self-defense, and Master Hilland repeating two finger techniques. Next came falling techniques by West’s Hapkido, short stick by Master Allison, and Master Booth (from down under) giving us a show and hook punch defense. After a great lunch in the hotel, I led spin kicks again (who scheduled spin kicks for just after lunch??), Master Whalen taught cane techniques, and West’s Hapkido did speed takedowns. After a short break, Advanced wrist techniques was led by West’s Hapkido, clothing grabs by Master Lyons, and counter techniques by Master Borucki. Another break and we finished up with a Hapkido Black Belt class by Master JR West, Aikido Motion by Mr. Gordon, and step sparring by Master Hodder. After we were all de-stunk and ready for dinner, we all met at Wood’s Restaurant who was open just for the seminar participants. Some of got to meeet new people there and mingle, as well as at the hotel bar for some fun and friendship. Unfortunately, I had to head off to the airport Sunday morning and missed the Japanese healing techniques led by Mr. Sexton (who’s class was full of all the sore achy bodies from the days before), Cane techniques by Master Whalen, and hook punch by Master Booth. Next came Aikido motion by Mister Gordon, Finishing techniques by West’s Hapkido, and counter techniques by Master Borucki. The day finished up with step sparring with Master Hodder, speed takedowns and pressure point techniques both by West’s Hapkido. I must say it’s a full weekend, and well worth it! You realize just how little you really know when you meet some of these great martial artists as well as many others not mentioned already and see how good they really are. There’s always something new to learn, and help on polishing up on many basic and advanced techniques you may already be familiar with. There is something for everybody, and it’s not only the training, but the great people you meet as well. Master West is always a great host and good friend. Yours in the arts, Mac ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:15:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 Dear Mr. Seo: Thank you very much for your response. I hope this can be the beginning of a long, interesting and productive dialogue. I know that sometimes when I am counseling with a particularly troubled individual one of the most difficult things is to find a way to invite that person to give voice to things they experience as uncomfortable. This ¡°publicizing¡± is a first step towards recognizing and then learning about whatever is on their mind. I share this because I think that the DOCHANG DIGEST is an extraordinary opportunity to allow many Korean practitioners to learn about the Kidohae and to have their questions answered. 1.)Since I am not some disgruntled ex-member with an ax to grind but a member of rank in good standing, there is no reason to doubt my motives are anything but for the good of the organization. 2.)In my brief experience with the DOCHANG DIGEST I have not identified anything that suggests it is anything but a well-balanced independent forum. While I appreciate that the Kidohae website has a forum, it is important to remember that individuals reading material on that site are very aware that both contributors and contributions are pre-screened such that the membership in general cannot know what questions have and have not be addressed, ne? 3.)Since you are a generation removed from the founding personalities of the various Korean arts and facile in English as well as related to an individual who is arguably one of the most influential men in Korean Arts, you are perhaps an ideal spokesperson to address these matters. Perhaps if there is a comparable venue to suggest, you could make a recommendation? There is also the matter of being ¡°blind-sided¡± by a particularly uncomfortable question. I have heard that TV interviewers often address this by providing a pre-determined list of questions for their guests. At first light this doesn¡¯t seem to be of much help, but perhaps if there are particularly sensitive areas that you would rather discuss only in private (or not at all) you my give me some clues off-line. The focus here is not to ambush or corner but rather to encourage something sorely needed in the Korean arts-- honest communication. You have doubtless heard of the events of this last weekend down in Jackson, Miss at the 14th Hapkido Internationale. I am proud to say that you organization had at least ONE representative there and what I witnessed was nothing less than a model for how I had imagined any well-run, productive and cooperative gathering of MA can be. I mention this because much of that productivity was off the mat as well as on the mat including many a discussion over breakfast lunch and dinner. One such discussion included the matter of certificates. I found this particularly interesting as it came down to wording on the actual certificate itself. In my own case, having been tested by GM Myung (WHF) applying for a certificate through the Kidohae was a relatively simple affair. I simply presented my WHF credentials and was granted recognition by the Kidohae. However, in reading my certificate I note the words ¡°has been qualified.....in accordance with the examination provisions of the Korea Kido Association and the World Ki-Do Federation.¡± It is my firm intention to seek out testing for my fourth Dan at the appropriate time and while I trust that GM Myung tested me in compliance with your organizations provisions, as I write this I have no idea what those provisions are. I know that your father, GM Seo, has on more than one occasion distanced himself from Hapkido, and I am comfortable in saying that Kuk Sool Won is the predominant influence in the WKF. My MA life is dedicated to Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido and I would fully intend to be tested within the parameters of Hapkido in general, if not Yon Mu Kwan specifically, when the time comes. Perhaps other members of the other 30 arts represented by the Kidohae may have comparable concerns. For myself, however, I must speak only to what I know, Hapkido. Perhaps you can share what testing protocols and provisions are established for Hapkido under the Kidohae? Thank you very much for your time and attention in this matter. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 9:13:06 PST Subject: the_dojang: ? for Master West Master West, What has four eyes, but can't see??? Mississippi... Ray "the old jokester" Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Via, Suzanne" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:08:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 I had the same problem. It depends on which version of Windows you have. Windows '98 only supports the Korean IME in HTML format and in Outlook programs. It won't work in Microsoft Word (at least I couldn't get it to, and I have Windows '98. In Outlook, you have to go to Format/Encoding . . . Korean should come up then and the floating icon will appear. Now if I can just figure out how to use it . . . Suzanne Via Piedmont Virginia Companies, Inc. Phone: (804) 973 - 1321 Fax: (804) 973 - 9784 E-mail: suzanne@pvcinc.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:12:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: West's Hapkido Seminar Dear All, Just got back from GM West's Hapkido & Korean Martial Arts Clinic. Just like last August, I was overwelmed with the wealth of experience and knowledge presented, and pleased by the total lack of egos and politics. This time I was able to get a good deal of the sessions I attended on VHS for reference. Thanks to Master Hilland, my students will be doing two finger techniques tonite in class . If anyone would like feedback off-list about the sessions I attended, I would be happy to do so. I can only say on-list they were all good, and there are others I missed that I'll have to get in August of 01 (www.hapkido.com for dates/details)....oops a plug Anyway, I attended: Two Finger Techniques - Master Hilland Advanced wrist grabs - West's Hapkido Counter Techniques - Master Burocki Spin Kicks - Master McHenry Dan Bong - Master Allison Cane Techniques - Master Whalen Step Sparring - Master Hodder To top it all off, Saturday opened with over 10 Master's Demonstrations including Master Rene West, and Grandmaster West, and a visit from DR. Kimm, H.Y., who was on hand to autograph "The Bible." As ever, GM West's cadre served up a large helping of southern hospitality. What else can I say other than see you in August . Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:55:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 Dear Charles: "....... My question to all the other martial artists how do YOU & yours carry out the BB tests?" Invited guests only is the most popular, with most Master's tests in private...." I have come to resent much of the publicity issues surrounding BB Tests. I have always made it a policy to have as many friends, relatives, and supporters attend guep rank examinations. However, I view BB as a matter of dedication to to an art, if not an organization or a teacher and as such view it as a very private affair. If I may draw a parallel in US culture, the Masonic lodge to which I belong initiates and raises members to various levels within the privacy of its meetings which are conducted by others who have also chosen to dedicate their lives to helping others and their community. We also have open activities and meetings, but the elevation of a brother from one degree to another is a private and meaningful affair. For myself, I view acceptance of a BB with all its attendent responsibilities in leadership as significantly more meaningful than just another promotion. There has been quite a bit of talk lately about "pathes" and "journeys" and regardless of what sort of spin a teacher or organization may put on it, the decision of a student to make a warriors' path his own is no small step. I can't imagine that BB means that a person is prepared to face anything as much as perhaps they have made the decision to consistently face themselves, warts and all. Just some thoughts on a Monday morning. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:20:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hangul Font It only works on MS products. I have never had any problems with any of the software from Microsoft Professional 2000, including email. The link to download Global IME is http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/ie/Features/ime.asp. Hope this helps. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:35:36 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: TSD and TKD <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> Brian, Your probably opening a can of worms with the word "traditional". Many of the Masters that came to the US early on brought their original Kwan training with them. But most used the name Tae Kwon Do. Moo Duk Kwan was the largest kwan by far, and as such had the most black belts and Masters. There were some differences in technique and method from kwan to kwan, but I think they were all probably more similar to each other than what is now recognized as wtf taekwondo. Tang Soo Do tradition, even though fractured into a number of organizations is probably closer to the original as a group than most others, but I believe there are a number of other Tae Kwon Do Masters out there who still train the way they used to 30 to 40 years ago. As for forms, most Tae Kwon Do schools 30 years ago used the pyong ahn hyungs, bassai, ship soo, nihanchi, jinto, rho ha, kong sang koon, which are the forms still used by all TSD folks today. These forms came from Okinawa by way of Japan. There is evidence that many are based on Chinese arts introduced to Okinawa earlier. But the WTF in an effort to distance itself from anythin Japanese, developed the palgue forms. Some Tae Kwon Do schools changed to the palgue but most did so to join or because they belonged to the wtf, and later changed to taeguek forms. Grandmaster Choi's forms started gaining in popularity in the mid seventies, and a lot of schools adopted some or all of them into their regimen. Then you had the martial arts craze of the 70's and the proliferation of moneymaking associations in the US. Not that the traditional art associations don't make money too, but I believe that a lot of what happened since the mid 70's has been more about money and ego than art. The basic thing you would see is a killer workout and a focus on developing power and speed in kicks and hand techniques to fight with. Read self defense. Danny Dunn ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:41:02 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TSD & TKD Brian. For brevity, due to time and the re-occurring topical theme, I'll respond to this. Post-Japanese occupation Korea saw several Kwans emerge whose founders had experience in Shotokan. Another Kwan founder had access to similar reference materials. Therefore, early Kwan styles (then known as TSD) had a marked similarity to each other, including forms, basics, etc. The political unification of the Kwans by the government under the new name of TKD eventually created further homogeneity. The Moo Duk Kwan split at that time (c. 1955) into TKDMDK and TSDMDK. At that time, and until the development of different series of forms and later WTF-style methods, the two were almost identical. Kukki-TKD and Soo Balk Do have since gone if different directions since then. To this day, watching TKD and TSD Moo Duk Kwaner's (practicing pre-WTF & pre- latest incarnation of SBD), I see less difference between the two stylistically (including forms) than perhaps who their instructors were and where they may have came from. So yes, in many respects, same roots and forms. Check out Ray's link to the Modern History of TKD for more info.! Dana >From: bwoodard@mortonsalt.com >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:57:59 -0600 >Subject: the_dojang: TSD & TKD > >I have a question for anyone here on the list with experience in both TSD >and >TKD. How similar are traditional (not WTF) Tae Kwan Do and Tang Soo Do? Is >there more of a philosophical difference? Do they have any similar roots in >the >original kwans? Are the forms similar? > >Brian > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:24:43 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.