From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #139
Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Precedence:
The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 27 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 139
In this issue:
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137
[none]
the_dojang: Russia-Korea Relations
the_dojang: Knife Form
the_dojang: TSD/TKD
Re: the_dojang: TSD/TKD
the_dojang: .
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:43:34 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138
> From: Ray Terry
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 9:13:06 PST
> Subject: the_dojang: ? for Master West
>
> Master West,
>
> What has four eyes, but can't see???
>
>
> Mississippi...
>
>
> Ray "the old jokester" Terry
> raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
>
Old joke from a old jokester. You need new material Ray.
Donna
------------------------------
From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:43:37 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137
In a message dated 2/26/01 10:33:09 AM Central Standard Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
<< I have a question for anyone here on the list with experience in both TSD
and
TKD. How similar are traditional (not WTF) Tae Kwan Do and Tang Soo Do? Is
there more of a philosophical difference? Do they have any similar roots in
the
original kwans? Are the forms similar? >>
I converted from TSD to TKD years ago and kept doing the very same forms. So
what was I doing after the switch? TSD or TKD? You be the judge.........
Actually there a quite a few TKD schools in Texas that still do the TSD
forms, probably tracing their linage back to Jhoon Rhee when he first came to
Texas.
gary pieratt
New CKC Web Page
------------------------------
From: Neal Konecky
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:40:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [none]
Just out of curiousity, has anyone been to a George Dillman seminar? If so, any
thoughts. Please feel free to e-mail me privately if you like.
Neal Konecky
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------------------------------
From: Ray Terry
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:58:52 PST
Subject: the_dojang: Russia-Korea Relations
Russia-Korea Relations Look to the Skies
Summary
Two key topics of Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to
Seoul Feb. 26-28 will be his country's role in inter-Korean
reconciliation and North Korea's missile program. Russia has been
playing catch-up to Beijing and Washington in dealing with the
two Koreas lately, facing several false starts and setbacks. In
order to find its niche on the Korean Peninsula and increase its
international standing, Moscow may propose tripartite cooperation
with Seoul and Pyongyang to launch North Korean satellites.
Analysis
Russian President Vladimir Putin will visit Seoul Feb. 26-28 for
a summit meeting with South Korean President Kim Dae Jung. While
it is their third meeting since Putin became president, the visit
is the first from an acting Russian president to South Korea in
eight years. Among the key topics of the summit will be defining
Russia's role in inter-Korean dialogue and North Korea's missile program.
Moscow seeks a niche in the inter-Korean dialogue and in the
international community. Thus far, Russia has had little of
substance to offer to the Koreas other than access to its Trans-
Siberian railway. Yet, Moscow was the first to reveal North
Korea's offer to suspend its missile program in return for
international assistance in launching satellites. Putin may be
planning to use the upcoming summit to take the North Korean
offer a step further - by proposing trilateral cooperation to
launch North Korean satellites.
Russia has made several attempts to insert itself in the inter-
Korean dialogue. Putin visited Pyongyang in July 2000, during
which North Korean leader Kim Jong Il floated the idea of
suspending North Korea's long-range missile program in return for
foreign assistance in satellite launches.
In December 2000, the Russian government proposed a trilateral
parliamentary meeting with Seoul and Pyongyang. Russia also
launched a trilateral commission to discuss development of the
inter-Korean railroad and its connection to the Trans-Siberian
railway and offered to assist in de-mining efforts along the
Demilitarized Zone (DMZ).
Moscow's efforts, however, have achieved few results. Russia is
economically weak and owes $1.7 billion to Seoul. Russia's more
common method of repaying its debts and influencing regimes - by
offering cut-rate arms sales - only presents more challenges to
inter-Korean reconciliation. More recently, Moscow suggested it would
invest in rebuilding North Korea's aging industrial infrastructure,
with the investment costs deducted from the debt to the South.
Building upon Russia's previous position as the messenger for
North Korea's missile suspension, new signs indicate Moscow may
be devising a new plan to inject itself into inter-Korean
affairs. On Feb. 15, representatives of North and South Korea
attended a meeting in Moscow on Russia's proposed Global Control
System (GCS), an alternative to the U.S.-centered Missile
Technology Control Regime (MTCR).
Russia's GCS, first proposed in 1999, calls for an international
regime under U.N. guidance to regulate and monitor international
ballistic missile and satellite-launch activity. Washington,
which sent no representatives to this year's GCS conference, has
criticized the proposal to offer commercial missile technology
and assistance to member states that abandon development of
military-use ballistic missile systems.
While Washington has expressed concern that civilian technology
easily converts to military uses, this aspect of the GCS fits
with North Korea's offer to suspend its own missile program.
Shortly after the GCS meeting, Seoul announced its long awaited
membership bid to the MTCR, scheduled for March, would be delayed
until September. The delay was caused by Russia, which cited a
"domestic procedure" for postponing the membership bid, according
to South Korea's Yonhap news agency.
Seoul, which has sought membership in the MTCR for half a decade,
made little fuss over the six-month delay. Membership not only
offers Seoul an increased range for military and civilian missile
programs, but also gives it access to technology from other MTCR
members, including France, Russia and Japan.
South Korea's bid to join the MTCR was made possible in January
after Seoul and Washington agreed to alter a decades-old
memorandum of understanding between the nations strictly limiting
South Korea's missile development programs. Surprisingly,
Pyongyang took little public notice of the decision to increase
South Korea's missile ranges. This contrasted markedly with
criticism from Pyongyang during the previous five-year
negotiating process.
The lack of comment by Pyongyang, and the subsequent low-key
reaction by Seoul to the delay, suggests back-room negotiations
may be under way to reconcile the two nations' missile concerns -
with Moscow's assistance. Russia is looking for a way to both
influence inter-Korean events in its own favor and boost its
international standing.
Beyond this, however, may be a proposal concerning North Korea's
missile program. Taking the initial North Korean offer of
suspending its program in return for satellite launch assistance,
Moscow may propose to Seoul three-way cooperation with Pyongyang.
Moscow would offer to launch North Korean satellites with South
Korean investment and debt forgiveness.
Such a proposal would serve the interests of all three nations.
Moscow would gain international recognition as a peacemaker,
ending the threat of North Korea's long-range ballistic missile
program. At the same time, Washington loses justification for its
national and theater missile defense plans. This also would
strengthen Moscow's GCS proposal, as it would provide an
international missile regime that covers North Korea.
Seoul would benefit by removing North Korea's ballistic missile
threat. South Korea recently announced it intends to take a more
direct role in ending North Korea's Missile and WMD programs,
something primarily handled by the United States in the past.
Seoul is growing more concerned that the new U.S.
administration's North Korean policy will diverge, if not
conflict, with its own.
For Pyongyang, the deal would offer an opportunity to launch
satellites - and to gain technological assistance. It would also
undermine Washington's argument for isolating North Korea.
Commenting on North Korea's recent warning that it could restart
its missile program, U.S. National Security Advisor Condeleezza
Rice reiterated that Washington is "very concerned about the
proliferation of missile technology that is coming out of North
Korea and about the North Korean indigenous [missile] program,"
Agence France-Presse reported.
Russia's offer will be difficult to achieve, as Washington would
be concerned about Russia dealing directly with North Korea's
missile program. The U.S. government might threaten to expel
Russia from the MTCR, but Washington may find such a threat
counterproductive. Moscow is a key member of the international
space station, and removing Russia from the MTCR would eliminate
oversight and limits from its missile technology development and transfers.
China and Japan may also view Russia's scheme with caution, as it
would shift the balance of security in Northeast Asia. Even
within South Korea, political factions would view such a proposal
with skepticism, as it would involve South Korean economic
assistance that could fuel secret North Korean missile
development. Further, Moscow would risk Pyongyang continuing its
indigenous missile program.
Nonetheless, Russia appears to be seeking to broker a deal on
North Korea's missile program. If it succeeds, Moscow stands to
pull a key leg out from under Washington's missile defense plans
by offering a proven solution of strategic engagement with
"rogue" nation missile programs. The deal would boost Russia's
GCS proposal substantially, weakening Washington's central role
in the international missile proliferation debate. It also would
firmly place Russia as a central nation in inter-Korean affairs
and reiterate Russia's importance in the international system,
offering future economic, political and security benefits.
------------------------------
From: Charles Richards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:19:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the_dojang: Knife Form
Mr. Terry Wrote
<>
No Sir, it starts with the eyes looking over the hilt
of the blade in "earth grip" with the blade hidden by
the left hand, and step back with the right foot into
back stance executing a rear stab to chest cavity
while looking ahead,then slide the left foot to the
left into front (bow and arrow) stance and execute a
slash across the chest.....
See also Master Mac's Forms resource page he has a
younger fellow doing a different knife form
Yours in Jung Do,
Charles Richards
Moja Kwan TSD
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------------------------------
From: Charles Richards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the_dojang: TSD/TKD
GM Lee, Won Kuk founded Chung Do Kwan Tang Soo Do in
1944/1945. Do Ju Nim Hwang Kee changed from Hwa Soo
Do to Tang Soo Do after mild success with teaching Hwa
Soo Do. In 1955 an attempt was made to unify the
kwans (Tae Soo Do)....circa 1961 The Korean Tae Kwon
Do Association was founded.....circa 1962 the Korean
government authorized the KTA to re-examine
blackbelts, some MDK players converted to TKD, and
some remained in the Korean Soo Bahk Do Association.
What Mr. Dunn and others have posted about forms, I
would agree with. Ask someone with a Chung Do Kwan
Blackbelt awarded in say 1960 what forms they did on
their exam ?
Yours in Jung Do,
Charles Richards
Moja Kwan TSD
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------------------------------
From: Ray Terry
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:12:43 PST
Subject: Re: the_dojang: TSD/TKD
> 1944/1945. Do Ju Nim Hwang Kee changed from Hwa Soo Do
> to Tang Soo Do after mild success with teaching Hwa Soo Do.
From what Hwang Kee claims in his book The History of Moo Duk Kwan, mild
success (above) should read no success.
The early CDK forms used would have been the Pyong An set, etc.
Ray Terry
raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
------------------------------
From: Ray Terry
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:14:55 PST
Subject: the_dojang: .
------------------------------
End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #139
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