From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #139 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 27 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 139 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 [none] the_dojang: Russia-Korea Relations the_dojang: Knife Form the_dojang: TSD/TKD Re: the_dojang: TSD/TKD the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:43:34 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #138 > From: Ray Terry > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 9:13:06 PST > Subject: the_dojang: ? for Master West > > Master West, > > What has four eyes, but can't see??? > > > Mississippi... > > > Ray "the old jokester" Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Old joke from a old jokester. You need new material Ray. Donna ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:43:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #137 In a message dated 2/26/01 10:33:09 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have a question for anyone here on the list with experience in both TSD and TKD. How similar are traditional (not WTF) Tae Kwan Do and Tang Soo Do? Is there more of a philosophical difference? Do they have any similar roots in the original kwans? Are the forms similar? >> I converted from TSD to TKD years ago and kept doing the very same forms. So what was I doing after the switch? TSD or TKD? You be the judge......... Actually there a quite a few TKD schools in Texas that still do the TSD forms, probably tracing their linage back to Jhoon Rhee when he first came to Texas. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:40:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] Just out of curiousity, has anyone been to a George Dillman seminar? If so, any thoughts. Please feel free to e-mail me privately if you like. Neal Konecky __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:58:52 PST Subject: the_dojang: Russia-Korea Relations Russia-Korea Relations Look to the Skies Summary Two key topics of Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to Seoul Feb. 26-28 will be his country's role in inter-Korean reconciliation and North Korea's missile program. Russia has been playing catch-up to Beijing and Washington in dealing with the two Koreas lately, facing several false starts and setbacks. In order to find its niche on the Korean Peninsula and increase its international standing, Moscow may propose tripartite cooperation with Seoul and Pyongyang to launch North Korean satellites. Analysis Russian President Vladimir Putin will visit Seoul Feb. 26-28 for a summit meeting with South Korean President Kim Dae Jung. While it is their third meeting since Putin became president, the visit is the first from an acting Russian president to South Korea in eight years. Among the key topics of the summit will be defining Russia's role in inter-Korean dialogue and North Korea's missile program. Moscow seeks a niche in the inter-Korean dialogue and in the international community. Thus far, Russia has had little of substance to offer to the Koreas other than access to its Trans- Siberian railway. Yet, Moscow was the first to reveal North Korea's offer to suspend its missile program in return for international assistance in launching satellites. Putin may be planning to use the upcoming summit to take the North Korean offer a step further - by proposing trilateral cooperation to launch North Korean satellites. Russia has made several attempts to insert itself in the inter- Korean dialogue. Putin visited Pyongyang in July 2000, during which North Korean leader Kim Jong Il floated the idea of suspending North Korea's long-range missile program in return for foreign assistance in satellite launches. In December 2000, the Russian government proposed a trilateral parliamentary meeting with Seoul and Pyongyang. Russia also launched a trilateral commission to discuss development of the inter-Korean railroad and its connection to the Trans-Siberian railway and offered to assist in de-mining efforts along the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ). Moscow's efforts, however, have achieved few results. Russia is economically weak and owes $1.7 billion to Seoul. Russia's more common method of repaying its debts and influencing regimes - by offering cut-rate arms sales - only presents more challenges to inter-Korean reconciliation. More recently, Moscow suggested it would invest in rebuilding North Korea's aging industrial infrastructure, with the investment costs deducted from the debt to the South. Building upon Russia's previous position as the messenger for North Korea's missile suspension, new signs indicate Moscow may be devising a new plan to inject itself into inter-Korean affairs. On Feb. 15, representatives of North and South Korea attended a meeting in Moscow on Russia's proposed Global Control System (GCS), an alternative to the U.S.-centered Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). Russia's GCS, first proposed in 1999, calls for an international regime under U.N. guidance to regulate and monitor international ballistic missile and satellite-launch activity. Washington, which sent no representatives to this year's GCS conference, has criticized the proposal to offer commercial missile technology and assistance to member states that abandon development of military-use ballistic missile systems. While Washington has expressed concern that civilian technology easily converts to military uses, this aspect of the GCS fits with North Korea's offer to suspend its own missile program. Shortly after the GCS meeting, Seoul announced its long awaited membership bid to the MTCR, scheduled for March, would be delayed until September. The delay was caused by Russia, which cited a "domestic procedure" for postponing the membership bid, according to South Korea's Yonhap news agency. Seoul, which has sought membership in the MTCR for half a decade, made little fuss over the six-month delay. Membership not only offers Seoul an increased range for military and civilian missile programs, but also gives it access to technology from other MTCR members, including France, Russia and Japan. South Korea's bid to join the MTCR was made possible in January after Seoul and Washington agreed to alter a decades-old memorandum of understanding between the nations strictly limiting South Korea's missile development programs. Surprisingly, Pyongyang took little public notice of the decision to increase South Korea's missile ranges. This contrasted markedly with criticism from Pyongyang during the previous five-year negotiating process. The lack of comment by Pyongyang, and the subsequent low-key reaction by Seoul to the delay, suggests back-room negotiations may be under way to reconcile the two nations' missile concerns - with Moscow's assistance. Russia is looking for a way to both influence inter-Korean events in its own favor and boost its international standing. Beyond this, however, may be a proposal concerning North Korea's missile program. Taking the initial North Korean offer of suspending its program in return for satellite launch assistance, Moscow may propose to Seoul three-way cooperation with Pyongyang. Moscow would offer to launch North Korean satellites with South Korean investment and debt forgiveness. Such a proposal would serve the interests of all three nations. Moscow would gain international recognition as a peacemaker, ending the threat of North Korea's long-range ballistic missile program. At the same time, Washington loses justification for its national and theater missile defense plans. This also would strengthen Moscow's GCS proposal, as it would provide an international missile regime that covers North Korea. Seoul would benefit by removing North Korea's ballistic missile threat. South Korea recently announced it intends to take a more direct role in ending North Korea's Missile and WMD programs, something primarily handled by the United States in the past. Seoul is growing more concerned that the new U.S. administration's North Korean policy will diverge, if not conflict, with its own. For Pyongyang, the deal would offer an opportunity to launch satellites - and to gain technological assistance. It would also undermine Washington's argument for isolating North Korea. Commenting on North Korea's recent warning that it could restart its missile program, U.S. National Security Advisor Condeleezza Rice reiterated that Washington is "very concerned about the proliferation of missile technology that is coming out of North Korea and about the North Korean indigenous [missile] program," Agence France-Presse reported. Russia's offer will be difficult to achieve, as Washington would be concerned about Russia dealing directly with North Korea's missile program. The U.S. government might threaten to expel Russia from the MTCR, but Washington may find such a threat counterproductive. Moscow is a key member of the international space station, and removing Russia from the MTCR would eliminate oversight and limits from its missile technology development and transfers. China and Japan may also view Russia's scheme with caution, as it would shift the balance of security in Northeast Asia. Even within South Korea, political factions would view such a proposal with skepticism, as it would involve South Korean economic assistance that could fuel secret North Korean missile development. Further, Moscow would risk Pyongyang continuing its indigenous missile program. Nonetheless, Russia appears to be seeking to broker a deal on North Korea's missile program. If it succeeds, Moscow stands to pull a key leg out from under Washington's missile defense plans by offering a proven solution of strategic engagement with "rogue" nation missile programs. The deal would boost Russia's GCS proposal substantially, weakening Washington's central role in the international missile proliferation debate. It also would firmly place Russia as a central nation in inter-Korean affairs and reiterate Russia's importance in the international system, offering future economic, political and security benefits. ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:19:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Knife Form Mr. Terry Wrote <> No Sir, it starts with the eyes looking over the hilt of the blade in "earth grip" with the blade hidden by the left hand, and step back with the right foot into back stance executing a rear stab to chest cavity while looking ahead,then slide the left foot to the left into front (bow and arrow) stance and execute a slash across the chest..... See also Master Mac's Forms resource page he has a younger fellow doing a different knife form Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: TSD/TKD GM Lee, Won Kuk founded Chung Do Kwan Tang Soo Do in 1944/1945. Do Ju Nim Hwang Kee changed from Hwa Soo Do to Tang Soo Do after mild success with teaching Hwa Soo Do. In 1955 an attempt was made to unify the kwans (Tae Soo Do)....circa 1961 The Korean Tae Kwon Do Association was founded.....circa 1962 the Korean government authorized the KTA to re-examine blackbelts, some MDK players converted to TKD, and some remained in the Korean Soo Bahk Do Association. What Mr. Dunn and others have posted about forms, I would agree with. Ask someone with a Chung Do Kwan Blackbelt awarded in say 1960 what forms they did on their exam ? Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:12:43 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: TSD/TKD > 1944/1945. Do Ju Nim Hwang Kee changed from Hwa Soo Do > to Tang Soo Do after mild success with teaching Hwa Soo Do. From what Hwang Kee claims in his book The History of Moo Duk Kwan, mild success (above) should read no success. The early CDK forms used would have been the Pyong An set, etc. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:14:55 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #139 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! 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