From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #149 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 7 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 149 In this issue: the_dojang: Grm Lee the_dojang: canes [none] the_dojang: a plug and a thank you the_dojang: Re:sticks and stones -er- canes the_dojang: Re:Big sticks, little sticks the_dojang: Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:51:06 -0600 the_dojang: Forward the_dojang: Re: aau insurance. the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #147 the_dojang: Re: Canes and using ya brains ! the_dojang: Re: Dan Bong the_dojang: cane techniques the_dojang: Kido Hae, et al Re: the_dojang: a plug and a thank you the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Clay" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:29:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Grm Lee Mr Seo, Let me clarify. I indicated that he was coming to teach and that he is a Kido high ranking dan member. If this is erroneous, I will retract; however, as I know it not to be erroneous, I will do no such thing. If you have any questions about my position, email me and I will be more than happy to give you my number so that we can discuss this. It is sad, as Grm Lee is trying to bring together all styles of Hapkido, yet he gets accused of trying to bring others under his organization... which is rather laughable. I don't know any rdained monks who have their own organizations. Seems to me that someone is treatend by this humble monk? Anyhow, enough of this. Anyone wishing to discuss this further, feel free to email me, or even better yet, simply come and meet the man. Sincerely, Master Frank Clay Frank Clay Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:59:46 EST Subject: the_dojang: canes Concerning Canemasters canes, you can get different variations of canes. You can purchase one that does not have sharp edges and will not be considered a "weapon" based on looks. If you haven't seen them, take a look at www.canemasters.com. I understand the concerns about it looking like a weapon, but you can buy the dojo or instructors canes without all the edges. Mr. West make an excellent point about the lawyers. I've looked at some of the canes at drug stores and they would break on contact. gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:18:42 -0600 Subject: [none] Dear Dr Hackworth: I find it very difficult to believe that you are not cognizant of the circumstances to which I referred in my recent post. Whatever previous experiences you might have had in the arena of the Korean martial arts and its discussion, it is readily apparent that you automatically take issue when none has been presented. If you will take the time to review my post, I made a simple suggestion which I had hoped might add clarity to the Korean Martial Arts. I wonder if you appreciate that offering defense in the absence of an attack only supports the possible suspicions people might have regarding this activity. Apparently if GM Lee has elected to assuage friction in the art of Hapkido he has selected a fine location from which to begin his efforts. Since we deal with a field in which both support and integrity are often in short supply, I saw nothing wrong with doing whatever might be done to assist where I might. I suspect my energies might better have been used to other purposes. I invite you to continue your efforts less my intrusion as well as my support. Please take your activity, along with your contencious attitude, to the remainder of the DD population, perchance to find one who is remotely interested. Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:52:32 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: a plug and a thank you I would like to invite all persons interested in Taekwon-Do to join itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com to discuss Taekwon-Do as developed by Gen. Choi Hong Hi. You don't have to be member of the ITF to join! You just have to have the desire to learn and discuss Taekwon-Do! Send a blank email to: itf-taekwondo-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or visit the web site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/itf-taekwondo. itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups is not an official part of the ITF or any other ITF website. The content is strictly the opinion of the person posting. (Thanks Ray and Jeremy for letting me plug this.) Robert Martin A-4-336 "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin PS: after that shameless plug I guess I should say something else. Thanks to everyone who answered my question about liability insurance. Ours is up for renewal and I thought it was a bit step. Turns out it is probably ok. I am going to look into some other areas, especially the AAU program. I kind of like it. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:37:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:sticks and stones -er- canes Dear Master West: ".... I have run this by several attorneys here and most agree that anything that YOU purchase, or is sold with the idea of serving as a weapon, can be considered as a weapon in a court of law.....OOOPS. Just something else to think about..." I share the following just as food for thought. A couple of years back Kathy and I took a trip to England and I picked on a fine piece of briar with a well-shaped knob at one end for a walking stick. Remembering some of the leveraged techniques that Master Whalen exceuted in his demo as well as his classes I have now wondered if a crook would actually be necessary. The Irish have a word for the stocky short walking sticks from that country and I suspect there would be the same problem with that(compared to my more slender stick) as you have mentioned with the Canemaster as it relates to the more normal walking cane. Your thoughts, as always would be appreciated. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:46:47 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Big sticks, little sticks Dear Thayne: "...I was surprised to hear that it's a dan bong with a cord attached - I've never seen this (I'm far from an expert in dan bongs, of course). All the ones that I've seen used are without cords. All of my experience w/ dan bong comes from Kuk Sool Won, though - are there multiple types, or is this kind of a hybrid or non-traditional weapon?..." The dan bong as presented by GM Myung is approximately an inch in diameter and about 12 inches long. The lanyard through one end allows the stick to be drawn, fanned and then retrieved by winding the lanyard about the hand. It is in its own right a very versatile weapon. However. I was impressed with the modifications by Master Booth as it retains all of the strikeing and thrusting aspects of the standard danbong, but is slightly more stocky as well as tethered by a somewhat longer lanyard. This additional length in the lanyard which at first glance appears to be a rather minor modification great enhanced the effectiveness of the weapon by allowing it to be secured about the wrist, as well as increasing its efficacy for trapping, choking, and a particularly effective come-along. All in all I can't say I can do it justice here, and would heartily encourage you to contact Master Booth. best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "elizabeth kerr" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:20:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:51:06 -0600 I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this site. I am one of those moms who used to sit on the sidelines while her kids did Taekwondo. Now, I have joined them in Taekwondo and I am really loving it. I'm in better physical condition than I have ever been and my doctor says I have the blood pressure of a teenager and I am 43 years old. I don't know if this site was meant for the student but I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinion on different subjects and I have shared them with my instructor. Keep it up, Beth Kerr ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:23:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Forward I was asked by Master Rogers to forward this message. Unfortunately, I was offline for a week due to moving. I apologize, and I hope it is not too late to be of service. Sincerely, Rudy Rudy, Kwan Jang, would you post this to the digest for me, I don't 5.0 AOL: any longer in my computer and 6.0 won't edit this for some reason. Thanks Dan Rogers The Cane is a weapon and has been part of Korean Martial Arts for a long time. It is revered as one of the last weapons in the U.S. that our government is not intimidated by and is still consider as an aide to assist the physically challenged. The Cane can be found in Wha Rang Do, Kuk Sool Won and Hap Ki Do. The techniques are realitivially similar in all three of these Korean Originated Martial Arts. The Cane is broken down into three parts they are the Head (hook), Middle, and Foot. The head is used for hooking, trapping and throwing, the middle is used for long strikes, chokes and leg traps, while the foot is used for jabbing strikes. Once you learn the different parts of the weapon and how to use them you can move on to training with the cane and put together any numbers of techniques. The main thing to take into consideration when training with any weapon, is if you can't do the techniques without the weapon you may want to spend more time perfecting your empty hand skills prior to moving onto weapons. A weapon is merely an extension of the hand. I hope that this sheds a little light in regard to the cane. In closing a would like to leave you with this thought... " A stick in the hands of a well trained Martial Artist is a deadly Weapon, A Hammer in the hands of anyone can become a deadly Weapon." Kwan Jang Daniel T. Rogers 8th Dan Chun Ki Hapkido ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:21:15 Subject: the_dojang: Re: aau insurance. The AAU TKD program insurance requires each student be a member, $10 for children & $20 annual for adults (Sept. 1-Aug. 31). The student gets secondary insurance which becomes primary if not otherwise insured. A deductible applies. For $50, an instructor can get $1 Million + liability insurance for both children and adults. This student/club liability covers practices in which all are members and the club instructor is present. Tournaments and such need a separate sanction. You can even get a secondary letter of insurance to give proof to the facility you may occupy for $25.00 [many facilities like this]. The AAU is a great deal because it takes advantage of all the other AAU sports utilizing the same carrier. They use to still recommend waivers as well and other insurance protection for full-time studios. Check out their web site. Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 07:21:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #147 <<<>>> I have talked to this "old" grandmaster personally, and he seems to really be concerned for the welfare of Korean Arts, specifically Hapkido. He abhores the way most Korean masters and grandmasters have treated us, (read American non-oriental). If I could, I would be in Florida to meet his plane and have a good talk with him. IMHO, george petrotta _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 04:38:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Canes and using ya brains ! Ray T noted: Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:22:15 PST Subject: the_dojang: canes While on the topic of canes, check out a stock cane sometime. Cheap, good sized crook, heavy construction, used to herd sheep, I believe. They come a bit long, but that is simple to correct. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> Response: Yo, I started this thread. So appreciate the feedback. Sometimes the basics (like a certain Professor used to repeatedly state) are all that is nec-a-sarry ! Back in the early 90's I used to go jogging with my dog Lady Luck at Beale AFB, CA. One day I heard a snap, crackle, pop. It was no breakfast meal. It was my knee cartilage jackin' me up. Then I heard bone against bone. My dog did not understand. Anyway, I made it to the clinic and they gave me a nice basic cane--after they immobilized my knee. I still have that cane. It is an innocuous piece of wood. A good cane to help you with any subsequent chic-canery ! I looked in my closet last night and noticed that I still have the cane. I cancelled my order from canemasters. My dog now understands. She is still with me although getting on in years. Peace, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:30:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dan Bong Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com wrote: > >I was surprised to hear that it's a dan bong with a cord attached - I've >never >seen this (I'm far from an expert in dan bongs, of course). All the ones >that >I've seen used are without cords. All of my experience w/ dan bong comes >from Kuk Sool Won, though - are there multiple types, or is this kind of a >hybrid or non-traditional weapon? I'm also far from an expert, the kind I'd worked with before had a cord that you would loop around the thumb and across the back of the hand once before grasping the stick. So you could release the grab and still retain the weapon. But you couldn't rotate around the wrist, wrap it around a limb or neck. >I can believe that the cord changes it and may make it more versatile. >Seems >like you could do some things with it like you'd do with either nunchuks >(sp?) >or 'bhat' (again, sp?). I think 'bhat' is the right word - I basically >mean the little >axes that are held one-per-hand, and can be attached to your wrist w/ >leather >straps so they're free to rotate around your wrist if you release your >grip. >(They always make me think of that old movie Gymkata.) I don't remember that from Gymkata...I do remember laughing at how convenient the 'pommel horse' was and how the hero's motion was never affected by 'kicking' the bad guys... David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:01:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: cane techniques Mr. Sims: the pvc canes used at the clinic belonged to me. I brought the canes for the students to practice. I attended both of Master Whalen's cane classes in Jackson. In both classes Master Whalen used a really nice wooden cane in all his demonstrations, his students he demonstrated on, both Jack and Dave were bruised. When Master Whalen demonstrated a technique with the wooden cane it was done for real and his guys went to the floor hard and fast. I do not remember seeing you in either class so I do not know if you saw this. On Sunday, I threw Jack with the wooden cane during class and I saw his bruises up close. Jack has great falling ways, got thrown hard and trains hard as does his teacher. You must remember that when we teach a class in Jackson the student may be a white belt with one month's experience or may be a 7th dan. In my own classes I had white belt through 7th dan practitioners. As an instructor, in my opinion, it is imperative that we provide a safe class and be responsible for the activities in our classes. PVC canes are conductive to this approach. I would once again like to thank Master Whalen for taking the time during both classes to teach me privately after he demonstrated a technique to the class. I had a great time! Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:01:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kido Hae, et al Dr. Hackworth: You posted that "this is the first time that KHF and Kido Masters have come together to teach for the advancement of Hapkido in general." Actually it happens all the time. In Jackson, MS at the 3 day USKMAF workshop we had representatives of rank ('at the least' 7th dan) from the KHF, Korea Kido Association, Master Ji's Kwon, and other organizations I am leaving out as I simply do not remember them all. This even happens twice a year and has been going on for a very long time. This year over 300 folks got together for this event. It will happen again this August. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 7:52:32 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: a plug and a thank you > itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups is not an official part of the ITF or any other > ITF website. The content is strictly the opinion of the person posting. > > (Thanks Ray and Jeremy for letting me plug this.) No problem. It has already been plugged here before. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 7:53:13 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #149 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.