From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 7 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 150 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Canes the_dojang: Re: Let me try this again... the_dojang: Hapkido Support the_dojang: GM Seok Kyu Lee the_dojang: Re:sticks and stones -er- canes the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #149 the_dojang: Seminar in Florida the_dojang: Re:canes, & weapons in self defense the_dojang: Bicker, bicker, bicker..Can't we all just get along? the_dojang: No thanks needed the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Garrison Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:33:53 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Canes On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 J.R. West wrote: > ...On another note, what if you defend yourself against an unarmed > attacker with your Canemasters cane and the investigating officer > notices your "weapon" and, because of the odd shape and cut of this > cane, decides that you have, in fact, assaulted your unarmed attacker, > much as you would if you pulled out a knife or gun. I have run this by > several attorneys here and most agree that anything that YOU purchase, > or is sold with the idea of serving > as a weapon, can be considered as a weapon in a court of law.....OOOPS. > Just something else to think about.....J. R. West www.hapkido.com And on a side note to this, I remember reading that basically any inanimate object can be labeled as a "deadly weapon" by the courts depending on its use in a fight. The example given was a fight in which one of the combatants pushed the other to the ground and then rearranged his ribs with a series of kicks while wearing heavy work boots. The assailant was charged with assault with a deadly weapon (the boots), because they increased the damage of his kicks. This is from memory, since I don't have access to the book now, but it was "American Law and the Trained Fighter" by Carl Brown. A little outdated now (it was put out in the early eighties) but interesting. - ---------------------------- "Reading maketh an evil man" Garrison ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:27:44 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Let me try this again... Dear george: "...I have talked to this "old" grandmaster personally, and he seems to really be concerned for the welfare of Korean Arts, specifically Hapkido. He abhores the way most Korean masters and grandmasters have treated us, (read American non-oriental)...." Thanks for your response. Since you have spoken with GM Lee, perhaps YOU could provide some background information, or impressions to somehow put a more human face on a name. Even if you don't have a copy of his resume' handy (:-) it would still be a service to others on the Digest if you could share something of your experience, I am sure. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:35:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Support No offense to anyone but I get most of my support in Hapkido from good ole Fruit of the Loom!!!! And of course from my debate buddy Kenny McDee! Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 9:40:25 PST Subject: the_dojang: GM Seok Kyu Lee For those curious about Grandmaster Seok Kyu Lee, is a former president of the Korea Judo Association. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Kirk Lawson Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:13:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:sticks and stones -er- canes "Bruce Sims" writes: > Irish have a word for the stocky short walking sticks from > that country and > I suspect there would be the same problem with that(compared > to my more > slender stick) Bata, Bahta, or Batai. Shillelagh to those of us in the 'States. There is a fellow trying to recreate a classic Irish stick fighting method. It's rather different from anything you've seen before: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4933/shillelagh.html Discussion list is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bata Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson === "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -Mahatma Gandhi, "Gandhi, An Autobiography", M. K. Gandhi, page 446 ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:33:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #149 In a message dated 3/7/01 9:32:22 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << PVC canes are conductive to this approach. I would once again like to thank Master Whalen for taking the time during both classes to teach me privately after he demonstrated a technique to the class. I had a great time! Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul >> Where do you get the PVC canes? gary New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Steve Seo Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:41:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Seminar in Florida As further clarification regarding the seminar hosted by Master Clay and Master Hackworth, it has been made clear to me that this was never intended to be publicized as a Kidohae sponsered event. I have received emails from both Master Clay and Master Hackworth and I would like to make it clear that I was not discounting this seminar and people should base their attendance on their own judgement. I welcome any attempts at bringing unity to the martial arts and hope that this event is as sincere as the hosts have publicized it to be. Steve Seo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:47:06 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re:canes, & weapons in self defense I have two question regarding this thread: 1. Several posts have referred to the cane as belonging to Korean martial arts specifically. Yet I have seen articles on using the cane as a weapon demonstrated by Goju ryu practitioners. Does anyone know about the use if the cane as a weapon by other Okinawan, Japanese, or Chinese martial arts? How specifically Korean is this use. I would ask the same about the dan bon. 2. Master West referred to using the cane against an unarmed assailant putting one in a bad legal situation. In MA the law is that you can only meet force with like force in a self defense situation, also that you have to show evidence that you tried to escape or that escape was impossible. But what if I had my cane and I was attacked by a strong young man, who although he is unarmed, it is clear to me that he would defeat me and perhaps seriously hurt me unless I used my weapon. That is, without my cane I would be reasonably afraid that I would be no match for him. Would I be on safe legal ground there if I used my cane? (granted, at this point in my knowledge I would be more a danger to myself if I had a cane, but lets be hypothetical). Jose' ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:14:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Bicker, bicker, bicker..Can't we all just get along? Though I am not fully in agreement with Mst. Sims, I do have to back him up on one of his issues and that is what rift are you speaking of? When you replied back to him you were still unclear as to what rift needed to be admended. Mst. West already stated that he held a seminar with practitioners from all organizations showing up. I don't believe the problems lie within the organizations having animosity against each other. The problem usually is one person from one organization has a problem with another person from another organization. Neither one ever says they represent the viewpoints of their organization. So the rifts seem to be personal. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:21:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: No thanks needed "(Thanks Ray and Jeremy for letting me plug this.)" No thanks is needed. Whatever it takes to help bridge the gaps of ignorance in the martial arts. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:43:14 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.