From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 8 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 151 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 the_dojang: Re: S-h-i--- whaaa-- the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 the_dojang: Little big brother is watching you! the_dojang: Monks in Korea the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #148 the_dojang: canes, once more Re: the_dojang: canes, once more the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hackworth" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:01:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 Dear Mr. Sims: I am the new kid on the block when it comes to the hapkido community in the US. When I came back to the states there were many people who had attacked me in print simply because they did not know me. I guess that I have been on the defense because of it. I did read back over your posts and you are right. I may have read more into what I saw then what you intended as the writer. I sincerely appologize. I have enjoyed reading many of your posts and items in TKDT magazine. I just get on edge when I see anything directed toward me. I normally expect the worst. There are a lot of narrow minded people in the martial arts community. Unfortunately this time I was one of them. Sincerely, Richard Hackworth www.kmaia.qpg.com ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:08:20 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 In message <200103072143.QAA02844@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> you write: > >From: Kirk Lawson >Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:13:00 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Re:sticks and stones -er- canes > > >Bata, Bahta, or Batai. Shillelagh to those of us in the 'States. BTW, bata simply means "stick" in Irish. I never knew there was an Irish stick fighting "martial art". Or was it just 19th century types beating the bejaysus out of one another? Donnla. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:32:26 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 J.R. West wrote: "attorneys here and most agree that anything that YOU purchase, or is sold with the idea of serving as a weapon, can be considered as a weapon in a court of law.....OOOPS. Just something else to think about....." I agree completely. I will be quoting you in my class tonight. Thanks for the insight. Richard Hackworth www.nationalhapkido.net Jose wrote: "1. Several posts have referred to the cane as belonging to Korean martial arts specifically. Yet I have seen articles on using the cane as a weapon demonstrated by Goju ryu practitioners. Does anyone know about the use if the cane as a weapon by other Okinawan, Japanese, or Chinese martial arts? How specifically Korean is this use. I would ask the same about the dan bon." One of the legends in Korea was that the first recorded use of a cane as a weapon was when the Monk Sosan Dae Sa, of the ShinWooSa Temple at ShiNonsan mountain in the Nonsan province in Korea, used a cane to defeat Japanese warriors during their first invasion of Korea around 700 years ago. A painting depicting this event hangs in the National Museum in Seoul, Korea. Richard Hackworth http://khfhapkido.tripod.com Jeremy wrote: "Bicker, bicker, bicker..Can't we all just get along?" You are right. Well put. Richard Hackworth http://ma_success.tripod.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:22:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: S-h-i--- whaaa-- Dear Kirk: ".... Shillelagh to those of us in the 'States. There is a fellow trying to recreate a classic Irish stick fighting method...." Big surprise I couldn't remember a word like that. All the same, was there actually a formalized fighting system that utilized such a weapon? I know that there are a number of associations in the UK which work to revivify old fighting systems and tactics much like the re-enactment folks we have in the US for the Revolutionary and Civil wars. Inquiring minds want to know, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:36:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #150 Dear Jose": "..... Several posts have referred to the cane as belonging to Korean martial arts specifically. Yet I have seen articles on using the cane as a weapon demonstrated by Goju ryu practitioners. Does anyone know about the use if the cane as a weapon by other Okinawan, Japanese, or Chinese martial arts? How specifically Korean is this use. I would ask the same about the dan bon...." In some ways the statement is a mis-statement, its true. I know, even when I hear myself make such statements ("Dan bong is a Korean weapon" or "dan bong is a hapkido weapon") I sorta wince inside. So what is it, Bruce? No other culture on the earth ever used a crooked stick or a short stick as a weapon? Sure, only the Koreans used a short stick, or a cane, or a sword, or a staff. Not. However, when I consider the use of the cane or stick or even the sword I imagine its use within the context of the overall biomechanics of the Korean arts and in my case specifically to Hapkido. Its the same as when I use my sword. Korean sword as reflected in Hapkido is not the same as Onna Ha Itto sword as used in Daito-ryu even though there is an obvious connection between the two unarmed arts. So when I use the cane or the dan bong, the techniques are readily derivations of Hapkido throws and projects, locks chokes and pins. I suppose that were I Judo player my use of the cane or short stick would mirror those techniques more. And though I have too long been away from Karate to speak with authority I'll bet that the use of the cane or stick would mirror that more direct (confrontive?) style. Just some thoughts for a Wed evening, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:50:39 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Little big brother is watching you! Dear all web site owners, Beware, little big brother is watching you! It was reported in the Korea Times today that the Korea Information Service (not a secret service organisation but a government organ nonetheless) conducted a survey of 654 foreign web sites searching for 'misinformation on Korea.' The paper reveals that 'The incorrect information includes one about the origin of Taekwondo, Korea's traditional martial art, which a US web site explains as "originally derived from Japanese Karate."' You know who you are, you best prepare for groups of Korean students protesting outside your dojangs for your heinous insult of all Koreans! Cynically yours, Andrew ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:32:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Monks in Korea I think that everyone has certain ideas as to the life of a monk, but during our trip last summer to the GolGulSah temple near the old capital of Silla, we had a interesting awakening. We just couldn't get over the sight of the monks talking on their cell phones, eating Captain Crunch, and watching soap operas, but the biggest surprise came when the head monk, a Mr. Sul Juk, who is the head of "SunMuDo", suspended a class to give a lecture in PuSan. As we were walking down the mountain, the monk passed us in his new Musso (like a Lexus) SUV, all decked out with every option in the world. I looked over at Dr. Kimm who answered my unspoken question by saying "monk business is VERY good"....J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #148 "...I have run this by several attorneys here and most agree that anything that YOU purchase, or is sold with the idea of serving as a weapon, can be considered as a weapon in a court of law.....OOOPS. Just something else to think about.." As a practicing attorney, I know enough to say that my comments will not apply to every jurisdiction. Having said that, I have to agree with Master West. At the very minimum, you will have to answer questions about whether the cane can be considered a "dangerous instrumentality" And here the defining line moves around quite a bit. There are cases that state that a sidewalk is a dangerous instrumentality. (That case involved banging someone's head into the sidewalk). A subway train has been ruled to be a dangerous instrumentality, (e.g. pushing someone in front of a moving one). Now, that being said, all you need is an overly zealous district attorney and you can find yourself with more than a fair amount of legal difficulty. That does not even consider those several times/week visits to the dojang which seem to indicate no physical need for the cane. Please, before carrying a cane as a weapon, consult with an attorney who practices in the field of criminal law, about the legalities in your area. Neal Konecky __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:14:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: canes, once more <> Gary: I made them. The materials came from the local hardware store. It took my wife and I about 2 hours to make a dozen. The recipe I obtained from my instructor, Master J. R. West. The pattern was from one my wooden walking canes. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 21:45:03 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: canes, once more > <> > Gary: I made them. The materials came from the local hardware store. It took > my wife and I about 2 hours to make a dozen. The recipe I obtained from my > instructor, Master J. R. West. The pattern was from one my wooden walking > canes. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul FYI, be careful with PVC. When it breaks it can/will leave you with something with a rather sharp edge. In stick arts like Eskrima we don't usually use PVC as a stick material given this. But then we are going stick on stick (etc) causing sticks of PVC to fairly easily break. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 21:48:00 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.