From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #152 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 8 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 152 In this issue: the_dojang: PVC the_dojang: Re: Cane the_dojang: Re: Bicker, bicker, bicker..Can't we all just get along? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 the_dojang: Re: Monks in Korea the_dojang: Monk business the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 the_dojang: Charleston , SC Summerville, SC the_dojang: RE: Thursday Thoughts the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 00:39:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: PVC Gary writes: > Where do you get the PVC canes? > gary Hello Gary: Just go to any store where you can purchase a length of 3/4 " PVC. Take it home and bend it around a one quart can after heathing it carefully. Works great, and it DOES make it easier on the students you teach (if you ar so inclined). Let me know how you make out. Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 03:18:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cane Hi, hi. Long time, no see. For all of those curious. Yes, I'm still in Seoul, Korea. I read an interesting article in Dong-a Ilbo's (Korean newspaper) review on the book Chosen Seibub, a book on Korean sword techniques. Hopefully I'll translate it and post it on the Dojang Digest. Anyway, about the cane, the other day I bought a jookdo (kendo practice sword) and a danbong, a hapkido short stick (you can actually buy those things in Korea, hooray!) at martial arts store (World "something") over at Tongdaemun Stadium. (Don't get me started on the new Romanization system from the ROK Ministry of Education or Culture or Whatever.) They also sell canes. Moo Sool Sa (the competitor down the block) also sells them. I'm sure it's cheap (like five bucks). It looks like a regular cane. (What is this Canemaster? I think I may have seen an ad for it in Taekwondo Times.) It's kinda funny when you think that a martial arts store sells walking canes. Next time my grandpa asks me where to buy! a cane, I'll recommend Moo Sool Sa over at Tongdaemun Stadium (Ha!). By the way, neither World Sports(?) nor Moo Sool Sa distribute to the US; good luck getting their stuff. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 04:07:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bicker, bicker, bicker..Can't we all just get along? Regardless of (Korean) martial art, there is so much meglomania-ism, personality cult, and political infighting, it's ridiculous and de-meaning. Let me just take the two martial arts that I'm familiar with, namely Taekwondo and Hapkido. (No, I'm not a master, but I did learn this as a student.) What are the values of Hapkido? According to Grandmaster Kwang Sik Myung (World Hapkido Federation based in Michigan), they're 정의 Jung-eui (justice), 예의 Ye-eui (polite "etiquette") and 인내 In-nae (perserverance). What are the tenets of Taekwondo? According to Gen. Hong Hi Choi, they're Loyalty, Courtesty, Self-Control, Perserverance, and Indomitable Spirit. (I never saw the "hanja/kanji" Chinese characters for the Five Tenets.) The irony is that although many of the Korean masters who have gone to the US expound these principles, they sure don't live by them. Probably one of the worst cases was the Chun-Moo-Do or Chung-Moo-Do school where the Korean master was indicted on criminal charges. This guy totally abused his students (yes, both psychologically and physically, let the student beware). Many (not all) of the (now) older masters (or should I say "grandmasters") from Korea who emigrated were basically "tuff guys" or thugs with very little education. You have to understand, Korea is not a warrior-code based society (like Japan) but a educated bureaucratic-based society. Therefore, anyone who learned martial arts did it so they could fight for a living. These masters go abroad and because mass media shows like "Kung-Fu" TV series and the movie "Karate Kid" believe that the masters would impart some great wisdom. Actually many of the Korean masters taught like the renegade commando Cobra-Kai master ! in Karate Kid. So many Korean instructors come to America, make a name for themselves, and then fool themselves into the thinking that they are "the Masters of the Universe" (He-Man! for all eighties yuppies!). I've also personally seen and experienced such ruthless masters. These masters really cause so much pain to the earnest, idealistic master instructors, both here in Korea and I'm sure in the US as well. But as there are bad instructors, there are good instructors. I had the privilege of training with Master Tae Hee Kim in Midland Park, NJ. He truly humble man who practices what he preaches. He also continually tries to develop himself through study, and has recently started learning Korean Tea Ceremony. I currently train at Grandmaster Chun-Hee Yu's (student of GM Jae-han Ji) school, Korea Hapkido Federation Chun Do Kwan Central Academy (Daehan Hapkido Hyubhoe Chundokwan Joongang Bonkwan) in Yunshinae, Seoul, thanks to Master Hal Whalen of KHA Mooyekwan. Although the Chun Do Kwan really does not have the financial means to support itself, GM Yu does his utmost to keep his school open for the sake of all the Chun Do Kwan students not only here in Seoul but throughout the world (France, Spain, US). I have also met many in WTF, Korean Hapkido Federation, Korea Hapkido Association Mooyekwan, Int'l Hapkido Alliance, and US Korean Martial Arts Federation, that teach with the same s! pirit of honor, courtesy, and perserverance that is characteristic of Korean martial arts. Sorry for the long post, but in summary, there are good masters and bad masters. So let the practitioner use his own discretion. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 04:17:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 The dan-bong that I bought in Korea (over at Tongdaemun Stadium) had a treaded loop at one-end. My teacher, Master Chung-hee Lee, explained to me that dan-bong came about in Hapkido was... basically it was based on the basic police baton. For any of you who are familiar with modern Korean history, you all know about Korea's reputation for protests and rioting. Well, as the riot police would lose there police baton, they thought a wrist loop should be added in order to retain it. Dan Bong techniques can usually be used via a police baton for the most part. By the way, Master Geoff Booth's version of the dan bong is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME! I personally saw him demonstrate his techniques and WOW! Last time I asked him, he told me that I couldn't buy his dan bong as his maker was hospitalized. If the maker feeling better, 1. Great! 2. Can I order one? (By the way, this is Michael Choi, the guy who was at michael_choi15@hotmail.com for the Dojang Digest currently at this address.) __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:16:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Monks in Korea J.R.s story reminded me of a temple we visited near Tajon this last January. A couple times we had to move to the side of the road (visitors have to walk and leave car at the bottom) so that monks could drive by in VERY nice vehicles. Alain ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:43:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Monk business Master West, I truly hope that what you indicated is not true of Korean monks. I myself have had the honor of meeting some monks, mostly from Japan, and I have seen Shr Yang Ming, who is a transplanted monk from China. Being an active Buddhist, I am quite aware that Buddhist monks aer supposed to take a vow of poverty... hehe, but I suppose not everywhere in the world, as indicated by your post. Frank Frank Clay Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:55:14 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #151 In a message dated 3/7/01 11:25:37 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << "...I have run this by several attorneys here and most agree that anything that YOU purchase, or is sold with the idea of serving as a weapon, can be considered as a weapon in a court of law.....OOOPS. Just something else to think about.." As a practicing attorney, I know enough to say that my comments will not apply to every jurisdiction. >> Definitely depends on where you live. In Texas you can carry a concealed handgun (with a license). You can carry a rifle on a rack in your pickup. You can still shoot someone who has broken into your house. Self defense is self defense. If I happen to use my cane as a weapon, and it was justified self defense, well, I should be OK in the courts. Actually probably wouldn't even go to court in my county. However, if I "over use" it, meaning I keep striking after the assailant is down and out, then I might be arrested, if I'm still around........ gary pieratt New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: bwoodard@mortonsalt.com Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:56:04 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Charleston , SC Summerville, SC I will be moving to Summerville SC within a month. I had posted earlier asking about Dojangs in the area. I will be looking at the archives of the d_digest to get the contact info. Is anybody familiar with the Christian Martial Arts Academy, or Master Studios of Self Defense? I would like to at least stay within the Korean Arts but I am willing to try something new. I am currently a brown belt at a traditional TKD school. Before I leave I will test for recommended black. I will be moving before I get to 1st Dan. Brian Woodard ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:22:59 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Thursday Thoughts Dear Mr Pratt, Hackworth et al: "...Beware, little big brother is watching you!..." If my salutation seems a bit odd, its only because Mr. Pratt and Mr. Hackworth may share an interesting experience we may want to address here on the DD. In reading posts from both of these gentlemen it is apparent to me that extreme sensitivity to individuals comments or positions can really get in the way of good communication. In the case of Mr. Pratts' post regarding the vigilance of the Korean Information Agency what if I suddenly start censoring myself for fear of offending another culture? In Mr. Hackworths' case, his experiences in the past, and his subsequent responses to me because of those responses, had me telling him what he could do with his up-coming event. I know some of you may be a little tired of me beating the drum about Master Wests event a couple of weeks ago. However, you have to admit that when someone can organize an event where over 300 people from a variety of backgrounds, styles and arts get together for three days and everyone goes home happy, maybe we need to sit up, take notice and see what this guy is doing right, ne? Tolerance--- I think the key word is tolerance. Not every querie into a persons past, or qualifications is a challenge to that persons' authenticity or veracity. Not every question regarding organizations or policies etc. is a rebuke or a challenge to authority. Not every question that delves into the past is a plot to undermine, discount or un-do. And please don't think that this position is borne of na�ve idealism (well, maybe a little). I know people are going to get their digs in on occasion. But short of identifying the words "yo' momma" in a response, I think we need to assume that whatever the person has to share is coming from a good place with positive intent (and I still don't always get it right). Lets face it, to assume otherwise really bodes poorly for us as a Way, yes? I'm gonna bet that there are a lot of lurkers out there who don't contribute for fear of being taken to task about their backgrounds, ranks, experience, affiliations or associations. Do we really want to allow this to continue this way? And you Lurkers out there--- how long do you plan to sit on your hands? When do you plan to belly-up to the bar and take a stand about who you are and what you represent? "All those in favor of having Mr. Sims sit down and give it a rest, make it known with the sign of a Master Mason." "The "ayes" have it." Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 7:55:05 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #152 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.