From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #175 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 17 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 175 In this issue: the_dojang: Sometimes Smaller Is Better the_dojang: Hackworth the betrayer? the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's website the_dojang: Hapkido Organizations the_dojang: largest organization the_dojang: KHF Chodan reqs the_dojang: Re: USNTA Website the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:31:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Sometimes Smaller Is Better Todd wrote: "I am not saying that the Kido hae or the KHF are not good I am just saying that size has nothing to do with being a good organization or not!" I agree with Todd. However: the KHF seems to be the ONLY Hapkido organization that is not a one man show. With an actual board of directors. It will never be treated as some family business to be passed to the oldest son in the Korean tradition. The stability of something like that can help eliminate family favors and promotions to sons so that they out rank member masters who owned schools in Korea before they were born. Being the past president doesn't give you the right to issue anything either. If a former university president started issuing degrees and said that they were now more legit that the ones from the university because he was the first president, the university would definately be upset. But most university students would have to good common sense to realize that a degree from a former president is not going to be recognized by any other university. Why is it that no organization in Korea has ever changed presidents without some controversy??? Makes you think. How did Major General Choi become president of the ITF? How did Dr. Un Yong Kim become president of the WTF? It wasn't by an election process that any of us would understand. Richard Hackworth www.kmaia.qpg.com ------------------------------ From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:52:53 EST Subject: the_dojang: Hackworth the betrayer? I received several e-mails from DD members and I will answer them here. Yes, I studied KukSoolWon in Korea. NO, I did not betray the organization and jump on the KHF band wagon. I was reasigned to an area where there was not a KukSoolWon school. I did not return to KukSoolWon after that because I was able to stay in KHF schools during my other duty assignments. Did I like the KukSoolWon training? Yes, the training was great. I did not care much for the behavior of the Instructor outside of class. Was that the fault of the Kido Hae? NO, and I currently receive training a couple times a year from a Kido Hae master in Korea. Does he teach KukSoolWon? No, he teaches ShimKiDo. Does it have any similarities to KSW? Yes, Many. Why do I hate the Kido Hae? I don't. I have never said that. Does the Kido Hae hate me? No. But I am not on their Christmas Card list either. Why did they make such a big stink about GM Seok Kyu Lee who is one of the Best GrandMasters I have seen in Korea (and a member of their organization)? Maybe just a conflict of business interests? I don't know. Who's Best? Who's Biggest? Who knows? In the words of Clarence Carter: "Do what feels good for you." Richard Hackworth www.kmaia.qpg.com ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:35:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's website I found this at http://www.hanmudo.com, it states: "Welcome to the future home on the Web of Dr. He-Young Kimm and The World Han Mu Do Association." Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 03:14:55 EST Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Organizations Can anybody out inListland explain the differences between the different Hapkido organizations and also the heads of those Organizations , also when they were established? Thanks, Jack ouellette ------------------------------ From: Steve Seo Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:30:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: largest organization I agree that largest doesn't always doesn't mean better, it was just my own curiosity regarding the perception of Hapkido organizations people have on this list. Regarding the question of comparing apples to apples in terms of Hapkido organizations, its a very difficult question that points at the heart of what the term Hapkido means. I know there was a long thread a few months back regarding this question and I don't necessarily want to revisit that same question. In terms of the Kidohae, the majority of our members(meaning more than 50%) train in some sort of Hapkido Kwan. That might not mean that much to people, but I respect most people's claims to Hapkido training until I meet them and they prove me wrong. If I'm not mistaken, the KHF has a large percetage of Hapkido members as well, but I know that they do certify members of different kwans of Korean martial arts. Most of what I know about the KHF comes from Chairman Seo and Master Scott Seo who now runs a school in Seoul. Chairman Seo meets with KHF chairman Oh Se Lim regularly and has a cordial and repectfful relationship with him so I'm pretty confident in my information. Am I mistaken? In terms of the Kidohae demo team, we are currently training a few masters who will accompany Chairman Seo and Master Seo to the Bushido Magazine Martial Arts Festival in France. We haven't scheduled any US demonstrations as of yet, but I'll keep you posted. BTW, the government body that both the KHF and the Kidohae are certified by as a national martial arts/Hapkido governing body is the Ministry of Culture and Tourism. Many people have asked me about this government office and the what that entails. I've been doing my own research and I'll let you know once I find out more. Steve Seo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 7:43:21 PST Subject: the_dojang: KHF Chodan reqs This is a repeat post, but since we're currently talking about the KHF and HKD in general. What follows are (were?) the KHF's reqs for Chodan. Is there a similar list for Kidohae Chodan? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KHF chodan requirements Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:10:26 -0800 Ray, here's the KHF dan requirements I promised. I hope they help. First dan requirements I. Self-defense (wrist and clothing grabs). (1) Same-side wrist grab (e.g., right hand grabs left wrist) -- strike, joint lock, throw (one each). (2) Clothing/body grabs, from the front -- sleeve end, mid-sleeve, rear of the collar, front lapel (straight on, lifting, and with hand reversed, i.e., thumb pointing down), belt grabs (with fingers pointing both up and down), hair grabs, (all one handed), front bear hugs (both under and over the defender's arms). (3) Clothing/body grabs, from the rear -- one-handed collar grab, both shoulders (with both hands), both elbows, both wrists (at defender's sides and with wrists pulled back), rear bear hugs (both under and over defender's arms). NOTE: Any defenses are okay for #'s 2 and 3, but testers do ask for additional techniques and sometimes specify a strike, lock, or throw. (4) Cross-hand wrist grab (e.g., right hand to right wrist) -- strike, lock, throw (one each). II. Defenses against fist strikes/punches, after blocking -- strike, lock, throw (one each). III. Defenses against kicks (sike kicks) -- strike, lock, throw (oneeach). IV. Defenses against attacks (1) Against attempts to grab, defending as the attack comes -- strike, lock, throw (one each). (2) After being grabbed, any two defenses, may be in any category. (3) Against throws, any two defenses, may be in any category. NOTES: I think that a testee would be better off with a strike and a throw here, for example, than with two strikes. These attacks differ from those in #1 in that they are dynamic; they are done on the move. In #1, the attacks are from static positions. V. Initiative techniques (a poor translation; the Chinese characters literally mean "before technique." The defender seizes the initiative and moves first. -- Strike, lock, throw (one each). NOTE: Police-style arrest techniques are part of this grouping. VI. Breakfalls -- Hwe Jon Nak Pop, turning breakfall, flipping in the air into a side breakfall/roll. NOTE: I don't think I have ever seen a test in Korea, at any rank, which did not include rolls and often other breakfalls. VII. Basic kicks -- straight-leg rising heel kick (straight leg raise, basically, to the front), side kick, round-house kick, hook kick, inside and outside crescent kicks. NOTE: Variations of any and all are fair game for the examiner. VIII. Advanced kicks -- spinning hook kick (head level), jump spinning hook kick (to the head), mid-level spinning hook kick (from more-or-less a ready stance), sitting/lower level spinning hook kick, double front kicks (to the front, both feet together, and to the sides), double side kick (i.e., with same foot, kicking low/mid, usu. as a fake, and thenhigh). NOTES: 1. These are the association's minimums. Individual instructors can, and do, add additional requirements. 2. Self-defense techniques are divided into strikes, joint locks, and throws. Joint locks typically hyper-extend a joint (most often the elbow) or twist the joint (wrists). Throws off-balance the opponent, generally, but not always, without causing pain (at until impact). The yudo/judo-derived throws are examples. A throw with twisting the wrist is generally classified at a joint-lock, even if the lock serves only to take the opponent's balance. 3. At times, examiners will ask for additional techniques or kicks. If the examiner knows that a student knows more advanced techniques (knife or sword takaways or the various bong kisul, for instance, or if the examiner thinks the testee is particularly good in given area, these techniques may be requested. 4. In my school, at least, my instructor does not generally test his own students. An old friend of his, from our sister school, typically tests our students. My instructor reciprocates by testing his friend's students. This keeps the system a bit more honest, perhaps, and induces a little more stress in the students. 5. Obligatory disclaimer: The translation is mine, as are any errors. The notes are mine, as well, and reflect my observations and understanding of the techniques and the testing process. If something is not accurate, I apologize. 6. There is nothing to stop an individual instructor from adding additional requirements. 7. As near as I can tell, there is no set curriculum -- just responses to specific attacks. Different schools do different techniques first, though most are pretty much on the same schedule. ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:28:13 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: USNTA Website In a message dated 3/17/01 12:23:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Frank Clay wrote: << The new USNTA website, in its basic form, is now online. >> I noticed on the site was mentioned that "both National and International certification" is offered to members. Is that KTA International certification or Kukkiwon International certification? Sally SallyBaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 8:44:48 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #175 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.