From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #177 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 18 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 177 In this issue: the_dojang: Comments... the_dojang: Re:Don't expect me to quit on this... the_dojang: KHA the_dojang: Re: Secret Missions in Korea the_dojang: KHF's info Re: the_dojang: KHA the_dojang: KMA orgs the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: J Thomas Howard Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:09:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Comments... It is interesting to watch---a couple of years ago, it was serious arguments (and vitriol) among TKD orgs. Now, we apparently are having a similar problem (or at least, much more vocally) among the hapkido orgs. I'm not the list master, moderator, or any such thing. (Thought I'd mention that now.) However, people seem to be getting more emotionally attached to their organization's importance than is really necessary. Without attaching names, a couple of comments from the previous DD struck me: > So only 1/2 of your membership from the 31 styles is Hapkido? The Baskin > Robbins of martial arts has 31 styles but 1/2 of them are Hapkido. Thanks > for clearing that up. I see no reason for this sort of thing. Blantant ill-speaking, to no apparent purpose. Similar comments throughout other posts showed people deliberately mis-comprehending, adding emotional loading, and other such things. If you have something good to say about your org, excellent. If you have a question about another org, ask it---it is the only way to find out. But if you feel like turning this into a (pardon me) pissing contest where the idea is to score points off others, please take it to the competition ring. Better yet, don't---this sort of thing shows extremely poor sportsmanship, and a remarkable lack of logical self-control. One of the reasons I like the DD so much is that for the most part, people can talk about things they enjoy, and pass on and compare information about martial arts. If you feel like making additional comments, emotional criticisms (as opposed to logical ones) or blatant attacks, do you mind going elsewhere? Thomas (I don't speak for Ray, the DD, or anyone other than myself. Can we grow up, people? This "my dad can beat up your dad" attitude towards "my org is the best" annoys me greatly, and should have gone out with grade school.) - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Hap.html "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:00:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Don't expect me to quit on this... Dear Steve, Richard et al: "...KHF Requirements..." OK,in light of my last posting here is a good place to start. Right off the bat I am having a helluva time following your dialogue and after re-reading it three or four times I can see why. 1.) Please stop with the initials, already, Pullease. Sure its easier to write your notes faster but I for one have no idea if if that "K" is intended as "KoreaN", "KoreA" "Kido" or "Kiddyland". Maybe you folks have this all straight in your mind what you are discussing, and thats fine for you, but to my eyes it seems that you are attempting to discuss different parts of different animals at the same time. 2.) Stop with the personalities unless you are willing to identify their standing, and authority and give a little background. These names do not mean anything to people such as I. Sure it may be neat for insiders to one-up each other with obscure references to individuals known only well to them but you keep forgetting that this is one of the problems. Information is kept in the hand of a relative few. Maybe these folks are big-time personalities in the world of Hapkido but you couldn't prove it by me, 'cause nobody is identifying them, giving any bio or background or acquainting me with them (apart from springing their name on me three weeks before a seminar). 3.) On this same note, Richard, lets stop referencing documents that are distributed by an organization unless these are available to anybody who wants to get ahold of a copy. Telling us that these various documents are available for free once a year through an organization doesn't really help me-- right now. If these documents are available where do people get a copy-- who does one write and what does it cost? And no--- I am not flying down to Orlando to purchase one at your school. Any organization worth its salt will make these things available even if there is a cost. If they don't, how different is that from not having one at all? 4.) I don't know from 31 styles--- I know from Hapkido. As far as I know the only people who are invested in this right now are Hapkido people. This business of "kwans" vs "styles" vs "arts" vs "traditions" just seems to be so much semantics. I am concerned with these organizations as they relate to Hapkido. That said, lets quit with the word games and start giving out so information that I can use. ( Just as a side light Frank Clay threw me for a loop answering questions about TKD as a chairman of USNTA and then identifying himself as a Hapkido pratitioner and touting a Shaolin Disciples Site. Whats up about this?--- are we going to have to deal with people wearing multiple hats for multiple organizations/arts/rankings?) 5.) Then there is the problem of "non-correction corrections". Richard, why on earth would you call attention to a short-coming in a post such as the one you identified with Ray and then--- kwowing the correct information--- not provide the correct information? OK, so you demonstrated to everyone that you have the inside dope-- fine. But while you are feeling all warm and fuzzy having one-upped somebody in a public forum, how come you couldn't add some good and share the correct information? Its pretty plain from reading what people are writing that there is a lot of energy bubbling around under the surface. You folks have an opportunity to do something different than what has been going on for the last 25 years. How about if we make "do the right thing" something more than a Spike Lee punchline, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims ------------------------------ From: "bryce burrows" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:12:40 +1200 Subject: the_dojang: KHA hi can anyone supply details (contact etc) of the KHA ? regards bryce ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 06:17:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Secret Missions in Korea A poster asked of Dr. Hackworth the following: Response: Preface: The following behavior is not condoned or should be copied. It is from the secret files I have maintained. I am unsure of what duty assignment Dr. Hackworth had in Korea, but I recall a special mission one night near Camp Hialeah, Pusan. We hit the Legions Bar relatively early and had the Soju and Coke brought to us by the crate. This mission had us on the edge, not knowing if we could get it done within "48 hours". Four tough Korean guys were eyeing us--they were the muscle for the bar. In walked Mr. Wang "The Fang". He was my instructor. Suddenly, the 4 guys split. Turns out Mr. Wang had fell off his chair last weekend from drinking too much. The Korean bouncers laughed at him and so he took them outside and finished them all off. When the Fang walked in the Mama San showed great deference and brought us a food tray for free. A lot of nuts, fruit, and dried fish. We headed for T Street, stopping along the way to pick up some Chicken by the infamous Chicken Shack. I asked The Fang, "Sir, where are you taking us." He told me he used to be a Marine and he had this thing against Russians. I reminded him that the Cold War was over ! So, he drives like a maniac and takes us down to T Street. Used to be a GI hang out place, now mostly bars for the Russian fishermen. In fact, called Russian Street or something (By the way I went into a few Russian bars there--have these guys heard of showers ?) He parks the car in a seedy alley and tells us to wait. We munch down on the chicken in his car not knowing what awaited us. He walks into this bar and I hear some glasses shattering and a couple of screams and yells. About 10 minutes later he comes back with some blood on his shirt. We ask what happened. He advises, "I had to see if my KSW techniques work." I asked no further questions as we headed for Dong Dae Shin Dong. At around 2 am, he stops by a Korean mechanic's house hitting his horn. He wanted to know why his car had a ticking sound. This was my instructor ? Don't try this at home. All names and facts are fictional ? McD... P.S. My assignment in Korea ? To stay sane ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 7:00:07 PST Subject: the_dojang: KHF's info > 3.) On this same note, Richard, lets stop referencing documents that are > distributed by an organization unless these are available to anybody who > wants to get ahold of a copy. Telling us that these various documents are > available for free once a year through an organization doesn't really > help me-- right now. If these documents are available where do people get > a copy-- who does one write and what does it cost? Why not just write or fax the KHF and ask? The org's info has been posted here numerous times and is(was?) available on Ron Bain's excellent website. Here it is again: KHF, 18-11 Rung-dong, Kwangjin-ku, Seoul 143-180, Korea FAX = (02) 456-0953 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 7:00:38 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: KHA > hi > can anyone supply details (contact etc) of the KHA ? > regards Master Whalen, do you know? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 7:47:01 PST Subject: the_dojang: KMA orgs A repost. Please report back any corrections. Ray ===================================================================== The_Dojang's list of KMA organizations -------------------------------------- African Taekwondo Union (WTF) PO Box 61002 Nairobi, Kenya 254-37-41579 American Hapkido Association 157 Cambridge Street Feeding Hills, Massachusetts 01030 USA http://www.tiac.net/users/hapkido/aboutus.htm hapkido@tiac.net American Taekwondo Association 6210 Baseline Road Little Rock, Arkansas=A072209 USA 501-568-2821 http://www.taekwondousa.com atausa1@aristotle.net Asian Taekwondo Union (WTF) c/o Kyungwon University San 65 Bokjung-dong, Sujung-gu Sungnam City Kyonggi-do 461-701 Korea 82-0342-750-5564 British Taekwondo Control Board (WTF) 11 Hassocks Hedge Banbury Lane Northampton, United Kingdom NN4-9QA 44-1-604-460800 kevinhornsey@btcb.freeserve.co.uk British United Taekwon-Do Federation (ITF) 58 Wiltshire Lane Eastcote, Pinner Middleessex, United Kingdom HA5-2LU 0181-429-0878 http://www.butf.com headoffice@butf.com Canadian International Taekwon-Do Federation 4265 Papineau Ave. Montreal, Quebec Canada H2H-1T3 Confederacao Brasileira de Taekwondo (WTF) Rua Voluntarios da Patria 245-Sobrado Cep. 22.270-010-Botafogo Rio de Janeiro Brazil Deutsche Taekwondo Union (WTF) Georg-Brauchle-Ring 93 80992 Munchen, Germany 49-89-15930043 http://www.dtu.de dtu-office@t-online.de European Sin Moo Hapkido Association Badenerstr. 156 b 800 Zurich, Switzerland 0041-1-242-97 65 European Taekwondo Union (WTF) PO Box 37 7570 AA Oldenzaal The Netherlands 31-541-536358 Federation Francaise de Taekwondo et Disciplines Associees (WTF) Rue d'Arsonval 69330 Meyzieu France 33-472-028397 http://www.fftda.fr pvisco@aol.com Federacion Chilena de Taekwondo (WTF) Vicuna Mackenna 40 Oficina 12 Santiago, Chile 56-2-6354000 fechita@entelchile.net Federacion Mexicana de Taekwondo, Ltd (WTF) Calle Incas #12 Altos 29 Entre Peru Y Hondurassalena Mixhuca Col. Centro C.P. 06010 Mexico 52-5-5190113 Hong Kong Taekwondo Association (WTF) Room 1014, Sports House 1 Stadium Path So Kon Po, Causeway Bay Hong Kong, China 852-2-5048116 India Taekwondo Federation of India (WTF) RZ-85, Bhawanl Kunj Pocket D-2, Vasant Kunj New Delhi-110070 India 91-11-689-9838 Fax 91-11-689-9840 International Combat Hapkido Federation PMB 417 6671 W. Indiantown Rd. Suite 56 Jupiter, Florida 33458 USA 561-745-1331 http://www.ichf.com info@ichf.com International Hapkido Federation 522, KA Chang Ree Whea Sa Myon Yong In Kun Kyong Ki Do Korea 0335-34-3368 http://www.usa-hapkido.com International Hapkido Federation (different from above) 3201 Santa Monica Blvd Santa Monica, California 90404 USA 310-829-2643 http://www.intl-hapkido.org International Hoshin-kido Hapkido Federation 359 A. Des Laurentides, Pont Viau, Laval, Montreal, (Quebec), Canada H7G 2T9 Fax 450-662-2218 http://www.mouseweb.com/hoshinkidohapkido hoshinkidohapkido@mouseweb.com International Kongshin Hapkido Association 1017 S. Washington St. Marion, IN 46953 International Taekwondo Academy Kukkiwon World Taekwondo Headquarters 635, Yuk Sam-dong Kang Nam-ku Seoul 135-080, Korea 2-567-1058-9 2-563-3339 http://www.worldsport.com/worldsport/sports/taekwondo/home.html wtf@united.co.kr International Taekwondo Council 3353 Bradshaw Road Suite 201 Sacramento, California USA 95827 916-368-1350 http://www.itckarate.com itchq@pacbell.net International Taekwon-Do Federation Drau Gasse 3 A-1210 Vienna, Austria 292-8475, 292-5509 http://www.itf-taekwondo.com itghqvienna@compuserve.com International Tang Soo Do Federation 3955 Monroeville Blvd Monroeville, Pennsylvania 15146 USA 412-373-8666 http://www.cskimkarate.com cskim@cskimkarate.com Irish Taekwondo Union (WTF) 14 Clontarf Road Dublin 3 Rep. of Ireland 353-1-8334453 fax 353-1-8334453 Japan Taekwondo Federation (WTF) Daisan-Nisshin Bldg, 12 floor 2-6-4, Shinjuku Tokyo 160-0022, Japan 81-3-3350-0550 Jin Pal Hapkido Martial Arts Federation 1415 Albert St. Regina, Saskatewan, Canada S4R2R8 http://www.jinpal.com tlok@ttlcomp.com KoreAmerican TaeKwon-Do Union 341 Broad St. Manchester, Connecticut 06040 USA 860-649-9696 http://members.tripod.com/~katu_2 Korea Hapkido Federation 18-11, Rung-dong Kwangjin-ku Seoul 143-180, Korea 2-452-3538 FAX: 2-456-0953 Korea Judo Association Room 504 Olympic Center 88 Oryoon-dong Songpa-ku Seoul 138-749, Korea 2-422-0581 judo@sports.or.kr Korea KiDo Association 122-2 Nam Yang Building 3000 Non Hyun Dong Kang Nam Gu Seoul, Korea 2-540-2156-7 or in Pusan, 3-35 Shin Chang Dong Jung Gu Pusan, Korea 51-246-4277 Korea Kumdo Association Room 505 Olympic Center 88 Oryoon-dong Songpa-ku Seoul 138-749, Korea 2-420-4258-9 Korea Ssireum Organization 634-10 Yundang Builing, Sinsa-dong Kangnam-gu Seoul 135-120, Korea 2-3446-1144 Korea Seoul City Mapooku Tae Kwon Do Association 2-717-6565 2-274-0541 Korea Sin Moo Hapkido Association 200 Whitehorse Road Voorhees, New Jersey 08043 USA 609-346-1111 Korean Soo Bahk Do Association 59-3 Nahnyoung-dong Yongsahn-goo Seoul 140-160, Korea 2-794-0809 Korea Taekwondo Association Room 607 Olympic Center 88 Oryoon-dong Songpa-ku Seoul 138-749, Korea 2-420-4271 http://www.koreataekwondo.org Korea Traditional Taekkyon Association Chungju, Korea 0441-845-1784 Korea Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan Association 35-16, Soo Pyo-dong Choong-gu Seoul, Korea 02-274-0541 Kukkiwon World Taekwondo Headquarters 635, Yuk Sam-dong Kang Nam-ku Seoul 135-080, Korea 2-567-1058-9 2-563-3339 http://www.worldsport.com/worldsport/sports/taekwondo/home.html wtf@united.co.kr New Zealand Taekwondo Federation (WTF) P.O.Box 14-540 Panmure, Auckland New Zealand 64-9-570-9228 Fax 64-9-570-4311 Pan American Taekwondo Union (WTF) 440 S. Washington St. Falls Church, Virginia 22046 USA 703-534-3737 patuhq@aol.com Philippine Taekwondo Association (WTF) Rizal Memorial Sports Complex Vito Cruz Street, Malate Metro-Manila, P.O.Box 2272 Philippines 63-2-815-2135 Fax 63-2-817-7235 Russian Taekwondo Union (WTF) 8, Luzhnetskaya nab. Moscow 119871, Russia 7-095-201-0628 http://www.atha.ru matekedu@mtu-net.ru South African Taekwondo Federation (WTF) P.O.Box 61418 Vaalpark, 9573 South Africa 27-16-9711-078 Taekwondo Association of China (WTF) 9, Tiyuguan Road Beijing 100763, People's Republic of China 86-10-6702-1308 Taekwondo Australia Inc. 24 Orion St. Vermont, 3133 Melbourne. VIC. Australia 61-03-9874-7094 jkotsifas@rct-law.com.au http://www.taekwondoaustralia.org.au Taekwondo World Foundation 1313 Dolley Madison Blvd Suite 104 McLean, Virginia 22101 USA 202-872-1000 United States Chung Do Kwan Association PO Box 1474 Lakeland, Florida 33802 USA 941-858-9427 http://www.uscdka.com United States National Taekwondo Federation 9956 W. Grand Ave. Franklin Park, Illinois 60131 USA 847-451-6000 United States Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation 20 Milburn Ave Springfield, New Jersey USA 201-467-3971 http://www.soobahkdo.com United States Taekwondo Association 220 East 86th Street New York, New York 10028 USA 212-772-8919 United States Taekwon-do Federation (ITF) 6801 W. 117th Ave #E-5 Broomfield, Colorado 80020 USA 303-466-4963 United States Taekwondo Union (WTF) 1 Olympic Plaza Suite 405 Colorado Spgs, Colorado 80909 USA 719-578-4632 http://www.ustu.org United States Yudo Association Orlando, Florida USA 407-654-0555 Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood 2427 Buckingham Road Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104 USA 313-971-7040=20 M-F 10AM to 5PM, Eastern timezone http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/8602/index.html Venezuelan Taekwondo Federation (WTF) 10455 SW 96 Street Miami, FL 33176 USA 58-81-665298 Fax 1-305-598-9543 fevetkah@telcel.net.ve macsupp@earthlink.net World Hai Dong Gumdo Federation Republic of Korea Kyungki Do Sangnam Si Pundang Ku Chongcha Dong 54-1 463-010 http://www.haidonggumdo.co.kr World Hapkido Federation PO Box 15523 Los Angeles, California 90015 USA 714-730-3000 http://www.worldhapkidofederaton.com World Hapkido Games Federation KaeBongDong 170-41 4F Kuroku Seoul 152-090, Korea 2-2625-0961 http://www.hapkido.co.kr hanjd@hapkido.co.kr World Han Mu Do Association 4816 Jamestown Ave. Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808 USA 225-924-2837 World Hwa Rang Do Association 8200 Firestone Blvs Downey, California 90241 USA 562-861-0111 http://www.hwarangdo.com World KiDo Federation 36472 Fremont Blvd. Fremont, California 94536 USA 510-796-4115 http://www.kidohae.com websabum@kidohae.com World Kuk Sool Association 3347 GM 1960 West Houston, Texas 77068 USA 281-893-1686 http://www.kuksool.org World Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do Federation 524 Wilbur St. Brandon, Florida 33511 USA 813-684-2284 World Tae Kwon Do Association 47 West 14th Street New York, New York 10003 USA 212-675-8143 World Taekwondo Federation see Kukkiwon World Tang Soo Do Association 709 Oregon Ave. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19148 USA 215-468-2121 http://www.worldtangsoodo.com WTF Taekwondo Association of Canada (WTF) 1300 Carling Ave Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1Z-7L2 613-722-9760 wtfcanada@msn.com [end] ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 7:57:12 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #177 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.