From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #178 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 18 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 178 In this issue: the_dojang: failure the_dojang: Mr Simms the_dojang: Re: KHF the_dojang: RE: KHF the_dojang: Should Black Belt testing be cumulative or just the techniques since last promotion. Re: the_dojang: RE: KHF the_dojang: Re:Korean Martail Arts Orgs the_dojang: Re:Comment Stuff the_dojang: uk tang soo do club the_dojang: 2001 All American Open Championships Re: the_dojang: Re:Korean Martail Arts Orgs the_dojang: getting along... the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 8:04:24 PST Subject: the_dojang: failure > P.S. My assignment in Korea ? To stay sane ! Ken, looks to me like you seriously failed your assignment. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:02:03 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Mr Simms This is for your loop, and will be the only time that I ever explain myself. I am both a tkd guy and a hapkido practitioner. I am certified in both, however, i was appointed to be the USNTA membership chairman. now as far as the email address... if you remember, a while back we had a problem with aol 6.0 not allowing non html email to be sent. so i shopped around for a free server. i found this one by accident, and allows (easily) for non html email, as well as sending an alert to my primary email to let me know when the digest is here. It is really quite simple, and requires just a little thought there mr sims. In the future when you have a question about me, or something i have done, please email me directly. No need to make comments such as "whats up with that". Further, if memory serves, I am not the only multi disciplinary person out there. In my 2+ deaceds in martial arts, most of the time I have not been known to you, which is fine. It does not make me any less legitimate nor you any less legitimate. However, I am a full time instructor of Korea Martial Arts in VA and I own a 4,000 sq ft facility. I have tried more than korean martial arts, and indeed, via the use of instructors in other styles, offer instruction in more than one discipline. I think that perhaps that answers your questions about me? If not, make arrangements to come to one of the events at my school, and we can discuss it further. I'm always interested in seeing other approaches to korean mudo anyhow. frank clay USNTA member chairman Hapkido practitioner User of FREE non html email services (lol) Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:22:09 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: KHF Thought I'd take a minute to add a little of what I know. For Bruce, KHF = Korea Hapkido Federation with President Oh, Se-Lim, patch with the pointing finger. As for the post by Ray of Holcombe's KHF requirements. That looked more like the test you take between dan bo and 1st dan, not the entire curriculum learned up to 1st dan. That may be what Richard was referring to when he suggested it was not complete and referenced the book from the KHF up to 2nd dan. I have the book from KHF and think it is probably the one talked about. And as Holcombe pointed out, different schools in Korea can add and change certain things. So I am going by my schools in Kangnung, not anywhere else in Korea. (I say schools because my instructor opened a new school in Kangnung, and this last trip over there I trained there. Also have another friend who opened a school and go there too) The way I learned follows what is in the KHF book fairly closely. (I'm at the office and the book is at home, so all of this is from memory at the moment) I will focus on just the Hoshinsul aspects, as does the book: White belt - all from same side wrist grab. 3 escapes 3 escapes followed by strike 11 joint locks 8 throws Yellow belt 26 defenses from different clothing grabs, usually two grabs at each place. 1st green belt 16 defenses from being attacted from behind (different grabs such as bear hug, grab arms, full nelson, etc.) And so on through the rest of the belts. Besides the hoshisul, you were tested on sugi (hand techniques that were actually a basic kick followed by a series of strikes. (3 strikes at lower belts, 5 strikes at higher belts) The kicks were: front mid section, round house, side, cresent and front high all followed by different strike combinations. Tested on falling. Tested on kicking (series of kicks, new series learned and added at each belt level) Hyung (forms) Yes, I know some HKD schools don't teach forms but mine did. How many of the KHF schools in Korea teach forms? I don't know. But I do know of a couple that do, and mine is one of them. Short sparring session. No gear, no punching. Any kicks, joint locks, throws okay. More to show fighting spirit. If the two mixed it up good, it was stopped pretty quick, if the two were hesitant, etc. they would get in trouble. Those were the main things tested on. Black belt levels were required to do some sort of special kick (my worst event since I'm not into the airial spinning kicks for show) At times a testee may be asked to do something again, do something different, etc. Like Holcombe's post mentioned, my instructors never tested me. There was someone else who came in to judge the testing. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:43:34 EST Subject: the_dojang: RE: KHF P.S. for Bruce. Holcombe Thomas who I just mentioned in a post, and who Ray posted those requirements from is a 7th dan in the KHF who used to live and teach in Pusan. He works for the U.S government and is in Hong Kong now. Very good man, helped me when I was dealing with all the red tape in getting my wife over to the States. (His wife is also Korean, so he had been on both sides of the process personally and professionally) There is a four video tape set on Hapkido that you can buy in Korea from the KHF. (It's at home too so I can't give much more info on it right now, but think Ray has this set too) It has Holcombe demonstrating HKD sword techniques in the video. Video is a good HKD curriculum encyclopedia type set. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:11:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Should Black Belt testing be cumulative or just the techniques since last promotion. I was pondering whether a black belt test should include all of the techniques the student has learned on their journey to that test or only be tested on the new techniques learned from 1st Gup. In other words, as one progresses through the ranks does their next belt test require demonstration of techniques back to white belt or just the techniques learned since their last promotion. I hope those responding will be from both Taekwondo and Hapkido backgrounds. P.S. Also I want to recognize that senior and executive adults may have more difficulty with a cumulative test and therefore a paring of that test may be beneficial. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 9:50:11 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: KHF > There is a four video tape set on Hapkido that you can buy in Korea from > the KHF. (It's at home too so I can't give much more info on it right now, > but think Ray has this set too) It has Holcombe demonstrating HKD sword > techniques in the video. Video is a good HKD curriculum encyclopedia type set. Yes, I have a copy. Master Jon C. Ward and Master JR West also have copies. Alain, were you able to obtain yours direct from the KHF headquarters or did you go through Master Kim Nam-jae (the creator)? Just curious. I may import several more copies into the US if folks are interested in obtaining copies (however, they are in Korean & hangul only). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:07:55 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Korean Martail Arts Orgs Dear Ray: Thanks for reposting the list. I have a copy of this and maybe I will need to start taking things into my own hands, yes. The reason I was pressing my point is that in the past I have tried to contact these various organizations and make inquiries regarding their organizations. Out of the 20 or so organizations that I contacted I received a response from exactly one and that was from Ms. Sara Seo of the Kido Assn out of California. I don't know why I didn't hear from the other 19 or so orgs but I would say this is a pretty poor showing by any standards. I would be willing to re-canvas these organizations a second time to see if anything has changed and report back the results here on the Net if people are interested. Thanks again for the list. Best Wishes Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:24:20 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Comment Stuff Dear Mr. Howard: "...If you feel like making additional comments, emotional criticisms (as opposed to logical ones) or blatant attacks, do you mind going elsewhere?...." I know what you mean having just gotten another abreaction from someone off-line taking me to task for asking questions which were interpreted as a challenge or an attack. Last year at the abbey, someone re-told the story of the abbot at a monastery who was roundly criticized for not ejecting a novice caught stealing. The story ends with the abbot telling his monks that "we all know right from wrong and that is our blessing. This man does not know right from wrong and who will teach him if we don't?" I share this because many Hapkido folks have been doing this kind of crap to each other for so long it has become a natural part of the way they communicate. In the US intellectual strength routinely takes second place to athletic prowess so its not rare not to find testosterone and attitude dominating even a field where individual development should hold sway. Now, we could just swallow our questions, duck our heads, vote with our feet and disenfranchise ourselves. As I tell my clients "you can always leave the field. That is ALWAYS an option." But why should we make keeping quiet, leaving the field and attacking people a knee-jerk reaction? Maybe we will never swap-spit and take warm showers together, but where is it written we can't find out about each other and make educated rather than emotional decisions about who we decide to hang around? Remember Mike? He likes Pelligrini and I don't. Does that mean I don't talk to Mike? And am I gonna spend the rest of my life looking for chances to pick at Pelligrini? Lifes' too freakin' short, folks. I hope you all are listening to Mr. Howard , here 'cause I bet there are a lot of lurkers that are feeling the same way. And remember, this crap is being shoveled by many leadership types. If the leaders can't act intelligently, what hope is there for peons like me, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "paul.moloney" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:54:04 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: uk tang soo do club hello just a quick plug for our website www.tgi-tangsoodo.co.uk we are a non profit organisation with clubs in the uk , we believe that were possible that Tang Soo Do should be taught for free ( or as close as possible ) I train 3 times a week with my wife and 3 of my children and only pay for my equipment and grading fees ( 25 gbp each ) check the site out and let me know what you thing please leave a message in the guest book I hope to post up some 3d models/avi's of blocks punches kicks and forms pushing it a bit on the forms I think !!! ) if anyone would like copy's of them mail me ( or any request ) thanks Paul ------------------------------ From: AAOTourney@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:47:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: 2001 All American Open Championships Hi: My thirty-seventh (37th) annual All American Open Karate/Tae Kwon Do/Kung-Fu Championships is less than one week away .... This year it will be held on Saturday, March 24, 2001 at the Draddy Gymnasium of Manhattan College in Riverdale, NY (the Bronx). I have included an attachment with further details on the Championships such as directions, time, location and the like. If you are coming to the Championships this year and plan to help me officiate, then please let me know at your earliest convenience so that I can hold your admission ticket at the door. The organizational meeting for Judges and Referees will commence at 9:45 am promptly. If you require any additional information, then please reply to this email message. I hope to see you next Saturday. S. Henry Cho henrycho@aol.com http://www.henrycho.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:51:52 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re:Korean Martail Arts Orgs > Thanks for reposting the list. I have a copy of this and maybe I will need > to start taking things into my own hands, yes. The reason I was pressing > my point is that in the past I have tried to contact these various > organizations and make inquiries regarding their organizations. Out of the > 20 or so organizations that I contacted I received a response from exactly > one and that was from Ms. Sara Seo of the Kido Assn out of California. I > don't know why I didn't hear from the other 19 or so orgs but I would say > this is a pretty poor showing by any standards. Agreed, I've encountered this, also. You're probably already doing this, but things turned around for me when I started writing on dojang letterhead and including a business card. Made all the difference in the world. Faxing on business letterhead and including a return FAX number for the response also helped a lot. FWIW. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:00:44 PST Subject: the_dojang: getting along... Come on folks, time to tone down the language a bit or take it to private email. Remember the infamous words of that LA wise man, Rodney King... Besides, if ya'll want to join the single best KMA org currently in existence then join mine. My yearly membership rates are very reasonable. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:14:17 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #178 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.