From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #179 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 18 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 179 In this issue: the_dojang: Will the REAL Hapkido Please stand up the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #177 the_dojang: Re: BB Testing Requirements the_dojang: Martial Arts Shopping Cart Re: the_dojang: Will the REAL Hapkido Please stand up the_dojang: hapkido discussion the_dojang: kempo karate the_dojang: Re:KUDOS for Everybody!! the_dojang: Black Belt testing Re: the_dojang: Black Belt testing Re: the_dojang: hapkido discussion the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:07:26 EST Subject: the_dojang: Will the REAL Hapkido Please stand up This is for Bruce and anyone else that has been in Hapkido for years and never got the straight scoop on its history. Yes, I do know the names, dates, backgrounds, etc. But it is too much info to post on DD. The books and tapes from KHF, I thought that people would just write to them asking how to get a copy. I don't have extra copies of the Book or Directory and won't be able to pick up any until my next trip to Korea in June. But they get a dozen or so letters a week from people wanting to get certification. Next time those people might also ask about getting books, videos, directories and training in the same letters. There are many people in the US that know why so many people left the Kido Hae but don't go into it out of respect for GM Seo. Nobody wants to say why GM Ji was removed from the office of president of the KHA or why they changed the name to KHF because you can't explain it completely without going into the fact that GM Ji went to Jail because of it. I know these things and have the items that I have because I am a Martial Artist. This is my life, not my hobby to go to after work. I have made sacrifices to travel to where ever I need to go and attend what ever training I needed to attend to learn these things. I am sorry that Amazon Books does not carry the KHF Masters Directory or its Instructors Manual. What Hapkido organization do you belong to? May you should contact your Headquarters and ask for a directory or instructors manual of theirs. If they don't have one, Ask them why Not? Every organization should have a directory of its schools and a teaching guide for its instructors. Sometimes Hapkido is not for sale and some things are issued only to the members and not available from full page magazine ads or downloads from websites. I know that it is inconvenient to have to travel and train to get the info you want. (It is also very expensive.) But I did it because this is my life. It is the things that you work hardest for that you appreciate the most. As far as not knowing who some of these people are that are mentioned in my post, that is because you are not familiar with who is who in Korea. Most people outside of Korea are not. If you go to England you will read in their magazines about fine GM who have been teaching for nearly 50 years, but none of us in the US are familiar with them. There are many outstanding GM that we never hear about because the martial arts magazines here have no reason to print articles about them. They are not advertisers Mr. Kim from TKDT told me that it would not benefit his advertisers to print the info I mailed him. He was willing to print about our training events but not the background history of the GM because it was bad for his business. Maybe a few letters from DD members to the editors would encourage them to start printing this kind of information? I don't know. With the DD people from around the globe have an opportunity to share info about who they are and what they do. But when they start to do that some self appointed "expert" sends them inflammatory e-mails or attacks them in posting here. Richard Hackworth http://khfhapkido.tripod.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:10:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #177 International Combat Hapkido Federation has moved: see new address and phone. ICHF 22-C New Leicester Hwy. # 173 Asheville, NC 28806 PH: (828) 683-4240 Fax: (828) 683-1744 gary pieratt In a message dated 3/18/01 9:33:55 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << International Combat Hapkido Federation PMB 417 6671 W. Indiantown Rd. Suite 56 Jupiter, Florida 33458 USA 561-745-1331 >> New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:13:21 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: BB Testing Requirements In a message dated 3/18/2001 10:50:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I was pondering whether a black belt test should include all of the techniques the student has learned on their journey to that test or only be tested on the new techniques learned from 1st Gup. In other words, as one progresses through the ranks does their next belt test require demonstration of techniques back to white belt or just the techniques learned since their last promotion. >> Well, I know when I tested for it ... we had constant classes in everything from White to where we were now ... and not told what would be on the test. Test day would include anything that we worked on ... Our one step before 1st Dan was called Recommended Black Belt and it was all about going back and re-going over everything we had learned thru all the ranks. Making sure our basics were solid, making sure we knew all our forms really great, making sure we knew all the rules, principles, philosophy that may be asked of us. We would practice jump kicks and landing on a line we were standing on ... back kicks up and down the room on a line ... practice breaking boards in combinations ... sparring constantly so we would have our stamina up for the test. Black Belt testing (for 1st Dan) was a big review for all of us. Now for the black belt testing for 2nd on up ... it was about basics and a few forms and all the stuff we had learned from 1st to 2nd, etc. This was when I was taking Han Moo Kwon TKD. Illona ------------------------------ From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:37:43 EST Subject: the_dojang: Martial Arts Shopping Cart I was amazed to read that some of you push your shopping cart to every martial arts organziation you can find looking to fill it with goodies from every place. Is there that much of a lack of support from the organizations that you belong to that you need to do this? Before you put me in your cross-sites understand that this is not an attack. I had read about several "Great?" organizations and sent them a membership fee to join in order to get a subscription to their newsletter. I have done this three time. All three times they cashed my checks and sent me nothing. I was hoping that info from their newsletters could make for useful tips in class, but I was wrong because I got nodda for my money. Is that the same thing you have been experiencing or were there other reasons for looking around. Correction, I did get something. Two of these orgs sent me the membership renewal form. I used to mail out copies of our newsletter to well know members of the martial arts community as a courtesy. But it seems that most took it as an unsoliceted mailing to cause trouble..? Since most people aren't willing to trade thoughts and ideas by a mutual newsletter exchange I was hoping to find that here. Ray is doing a great job. I know that some of my postings aren't popular with the recreational martial artists because I do take what I do very seriously. At times I can be Brutally honest. So be forewarned, if you aren't prepared to deal with the realities of the answer. Don't ask me the question. I tell it like it is. Not to be offense, but so there is absolutely no question as to what I meant by it. All of my opinions are based on my personal experiences at not just attacks against people that I have no dealings with. Richard Hackworth http://khfhapkido.tripod.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:04:06 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Will the REAL Hapkido Please stand up > ... Nobody wants to say why > GM Ji was removed from the office of president of the KHA or why they changed > the name to KHF because you can't explain it completely without going into > the fact that GM Ji went to Jail because of it. No secret there, that has been mentioned here before. No shame in it either, and please never atempt to claim otherwise here in this forum. For all... We have many folks here that work hard for their information. What seems to differentiate people are those that share their info freely, openly and honestly vs. those that want folks to come beg for it. Here we share info freely and openly, those that do not are moved on. Not meant to be a threat to anyone, just the facts. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Steve Seo Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:54:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: hapkido discussion Dear Richard, "Steve, please wait until you have info before you make postings. Your responses always raise more questions than they answer." Seems like we're on a first name basis, so I will respond in kind. "So only 1/2 of your membership from the 31 styles is Hapkido? The Baskin Robbins of martial arts has 31 styles but 1/2 of them are Hapkido. Thanks for clearing that up." Please cease stop with the thinly veiled disparging comments. I will endeavor to respect your point of view, but you will stop with these pot shots or I will cease to engage in any dialogue with you. I mentioned the Hapkido question because it is a valid question for both the Korea hapkido Federation as well as the Kidohae. By this I mean, "what does Hapkido mean to you." This question will receive a very different answer in the States then it will in Korea. As I mentioned in previous posts, Hapkido can both be a generic term that refers to Ho Shin Sool(self defense martial arts) or it could refer to something very specific. In Richard's own website, it states that the Korea Hapkido Federation certifies over 70 kwans(or styles/schools/types) of Hapkido. If you want to look at it that way, than the Kidohae certifies 100 percent of our members in Hapkido. Now, let's break it down to lineages and semantics. Are we going to say Hapkido is anything that we can trace back to Choi Young Sool seung seng nim(teacher)? Or take it a step further, anything that comes from Choi seung seng nim but was deceminated by GM Ji Han Jae, GM Kim Mu Wong, GM Myung Jae Nam...etc? Do we include GM In Hyuk Seo, GM Lee Joo Bang, GM Han Bong Soo? How specific do we go in recognizing who trains in Hapkido or not. If someone grabs me from the front and I do reverse spin conversion techinique, what did I just do? Isn't that something we see in all Hapkido schools. I think about the concept of You Won Hwa everytime I train and I humbly attempt to apply it to my training. I believe You Won Hwa is a central concept to the GM Ji's Sin Moo Hapkido methodology. I practice dan jun ki breathing cultivation everyday, don't most hapkido schools do the same? I mention all these points because these concepts and training principles are seen throughout Korean Martial Arts irrespective of whether or not some uses the specific Hapkido name to it. That was my point in terms of what is Hapkido and why it is sometimes hard to categorize. That being said, I respect anyones claim to Hapkido and if they want to keep the definition very stringent, that's fine with me, more power to you. Just realize that in the motherland of Hapkido, its not so cut and dry. Mr Sims, I hope my post was to your liking, I tried not to use any acronyms or abbreviations! (except for GM- grandmaster):) Steve Seo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:21:16 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: kempo karate Hi, i was just wondering if anyone had any info or some good site that have info about kempo karate, thank you Kadin _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:33:15 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re:KUDOS for Everybody!! Dear Listkas and especially everyone who contributed to the last DD: THIS is what I have been talking about! Take a look at how much information was shared in just this single edition of the DD and imagine if we could exchange information like this each and eveytime! Hapkido is WAY overdue for exactly this kind of mutual aid and respect. Nobody was poked at or criticized and in about 6 or 7 quick posts there was a ton of info passed out. Ibet if we could just take it one edition at a time, we could keep this going for quite a while. Hapkido could only benefit, right? BTW: Thanks for the suggestion, Ray. I had used my MIDWEST HAPKIDO stationary and thought that perhaps that had put the various people off. I'll give it a try again and let folks know how things turn-out. I think its important for Hapkido practitioners to know how approachable the various organizations are and what one might reasonably expect from membership in each. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:34:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt testing Hello all. Im new to the list and getting ready to test for my third degree in april. Im just putting in my 2 cents on what I feel Black belt testing should. (Not that Im looking forward to doing all of this.) I feel that when you test for black belt all of the techniques that you have learned should be fair game for testing. (That is the way Im approaching my test.) I also believe that the ability to perform every technique to perfection is not what black belt is about. When you get to be 9th or 10th Dan (Depending on your style) then you should be able to perform most of the techniques. As far as executive students and other students with other challenges, the most important part of being a black belt is not doing the techniques, but the example you set. If you give 110% effort in everything you do, whether it be in the dojang or at home you will have become what every person strives to be. A success!!! I am from a large school. We have close to 15 small branch schools. As a second degree I get to judge some of the lower belts. What I look for is not how well a person does this or that kick, but how hard they try on everything that they do. I feel black belts should be judged the same way. As I said before this is just my 2 cents Ken Legendre 2nd Dan (Hopefully soon to be 3rd) innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:53:08 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Black Belt testing > Hello all. Im new to the list and getting ready to test for my third degree > in april. Hi Ken, Are you the same Ken Legendre from ISU that used to be a subscriber? You're not new... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:58:31 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: hapkido discussion > as the Kidohae. By this I mean, "what does Hapkido > mean to you." This question will receive a very > different answer in the States then it will in Korea. > As I mentioned in previous posts, Hapkido can both be > a generic term that refers to Ho Shin Sool(self > defense martial arts) or it could refer to something > very specific. Sir, I know you've said this before. But... if Hapkido is such a generic term in Korea then do the many Hapkido organizations based in Korea, those with Hapkido in their name, teach generic self-defense or do they teach the martial art of Hapkido? From what I saw they teach the 'art' of Hapkido, not just hoshinsul. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:38:05 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #179 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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