From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #181 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 19 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 181 In this issue: the_dojang: Kempo the_dojang: Re: KHA the_dojang: Cumulative BB testing/RE: T. Kennelly the_dojang: Happy B-Day the_dojang: Kwans in Hapkido the_dojang: KHF videos the_dojang: Powerscrol.com the_dojang: hapkido organizations the_dojang: hapkido vs. kuk sool won vs. hwarangdo the_dojang: Associations - - A lighter look! the_dojang: RE: Why do they ask? the_dojang: various the_dojang: names the_dojang: Its' KoreA Hapkido Federation the_dojang: Korean Martial Art Associations? the_dojang: Re: Which KHA? the_dojang: Re: HKD videos the_dojang: hapkido the_dojang: Re: Testing thoughts. the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #178 the_dojang: RE: Bennies of getting the word out the_dojang: Re: Black belt testing the_dojang: RE: Thanks, Richard the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: J T Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Kempo What type of Kempo are you searching for? There are several "types", though they all stem from one root. You can find out some Kosho-ryu Kempo information on the Martial Arts Collective Society website; http://www.collectivesociety.com. Look into the newsletters. The first couple of newsletters has some of that information on them. Plus you may contact the editor, Sensei Jon Ludwig, who will be able to give you some more detailed history on Kempo. If you need more information, then contact me offline and I can dig up some more history inforamtion from my archives. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:33:18 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: KHA Currently Korea Hapkido Association Mooyekwan has a website at http://www.masterhkd.com. One can contact Master Michael McCarty at masterhkd@hotmail.com I think that there's a bit of confusion. The former KHA Mooyekwan website (www.mooyekwan.org) and the current Master HKD website (http://www.masterhkd.com), both showed belt requirement sheets. The requirements are unique to Mooyekwan. They go above and beyond the KHA standard testing requirements. (I think that going beyond the organizational requirements is absolutely cool.) Michael Choi Sincerely, Michael Choi > From: "bryce burrows" > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:12:40 +1200 > Subject: the_dojang: KHA > > hi > can anyone supply details (contact etc) of the KHA ? > regards > > bryce __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:35:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Cumulative BB testing/RE: T. Kennelly My history in TangSooDo was such that every class we went over ALL the material we knew, up to our rank. This reinforcement was very beneficial to me. With classes at 2 1/2 hours, this was easily worked into the class plan. When I switched to TaeKwonDo, we only focused on current material. With classes at 45-60 minutes, we had a hard time getting to everything. We have recently turned to "block-teaching", which tends to further blur the lines of what you should know for your specific rank! From these two perspectives, I would strongly support actual testing covering ALL material up to, and including your current rank. With everything we learn building on a foundation of the basics, it is very important to go back to those basics and practice/refine what you THINK you already know! Especially at BB, like it or not, gup-level students tend to think that all BBs know all the material that got them to their BB. How embassarring for the BB to have to say, "I don't remember" and how frustrating for the "Guppie" (no offense intended) to not have the support available to them when they need it. Even worse is the BB who doesn't remember, but makes it up! Now we have confused and disoriented the very people that turned to us for help! For our senior/executive level students, even if they are not able to fully demonstrate the techniques the way they would like, knowledge and understanding of them is VERY important. In the end, our training must be a balance of physical and mental skills - we can not let anyone off "easy" just because they can't physically perform each and every technique. Again, test eveything one should know - the actual belt level/color is not as important as continuously learning and growing in our respective arts! Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 7:22:59 PST Subject: the_dojang: Happy B-Day Today is the birthday of the WTF's Kim Un Yong. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:50:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kwans in Hapkido I currently study Hapkido Chundokwan. My perception regarding different kwans in hapkido (who are KHF members) is: their lineage traces back to Gradmaster Jae-han Ji. (BTW: all the KHF officers and board members all have hapkido origins with GM Ji, I think. Dr. Hackworth would know better than I since he actually works with the KHF office.) There's a saying in Ji's hapkido "make your own hapkido" in other words, "practice the technique until it's right for you and make the technique your own." Basically, as all of Ji's disciples have different builds, heights, personalities, psyche's, etc. they interpreted Ji's teaching a little bit differently. As the disciples went out and establish their own schools, they taught their curriculums a little differently. Therefore, the different kwans evolved. It's all hapkido (if we're taking about KHF). BTW: I don't know if you guys remember my posting last year, but I did mention that I saw a KHF dojang in Bulgwang, Seoul saying in Korean, Korean Hapkido Federation Kuk Sool Kwan (my translation). Hmmm... Sincerely, Michael Choi __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:01:43 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: KHF videos >>>The KHF videos can be bought at Moo Sool Sa or World Sports (sic) which >>>are both near Dongdaemun Stadium. They also sell IHF and Hoijeon MooSool videos. Sincerely, Michael Choi<<< Do we have a particular address or web URL to find these? Also, Thanks to GM S. Henry Cho for participating in the DD. I'm impressed! george http://hapkido.4dw.com FREE MEMBERSHIP TO ALL _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:02:04 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Powerscrol.com I clicked this link as was suggested by Steve W. I didn't see any Korean Martial Arts links. No offense, but I think we have enough organizational discussions going on without adding chinese, japanese and philipino to the pot. just my two cents, frank Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:59:40 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido organizations Just to put in my two cents as a simple yudanja practioner... whether it is Korea Hapkido Federation, Kidohae, Hankuk Hapkido Association, Int'l Hapkido Federation, World Hapkido Federation. As long as their legitimate and serve their constituents without being a burden, that's good enough. >From what I can see here in Korea, I think certain associations are more popular in certain regions over others. This is usually based at the organizations' heads' hometowns (Korean, ko-hyang 고향). Oh, Se-lim is based in Seoul and most schools in Seoul is KHF. In Seoul, there are also IHF schools and a few Kidohae schools. IHF is based in Inchon (or Incheon). As I have yet to go to Inchon, I do not know if there are a lot of IHF schools there. The Suh/Seo brothers (I still don't understand why they spell their names differently) are from Pusan. I saw quite a few Kuk Sool Won (Kidohae) schools in Pusan, but no KHF schools. I also saw a Kuk Sool Won school in Cheju island. My friend, who received his BA in martial arts at Myongji University, got his hapkido degree from the hapkido professor who set up his own organization. Now that I think about it, it's a lot like how a lot of Taekwondo organizations sprung up in the US. According to local a Taekwondo organization was set up, ! such as Richard Chun's US Taekwondo Association in New York and Hee Il Cho's AIMAA on the West Coast. Anyway, I like Grandmaster JR West's attitude of being open and friendly to all. One's hapkido is not dependent on one's affiliation, but one's ability on the dojang mat. Cheers, Michael Choi __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:05:18 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido vs. kuk sool won vs. hwarangdo Another "two cents message:" although hapkido and kuk-sool-won and hwarangdo have similar histories, curriculums, and techniques, I'm willing to accept them as separate styles. If that is path that the grandmasters have chosen (to branch into separate styles), so be it. To me, what is most important is that they are honest about their histories. So many of them claim to be the original Korean martial art. That's hard to swallow as the adoption of neo-Confucianism as a state ideology practically banned martial arts and then when the Japanese colonized Korea, they banned native martial arts as well. It's hard to find the evidence, that hapkido or kuk-sool or hwarangdo was the original Korean martial art. If we stress to our students the importance of honesty, we should be honest about what we're teaching as well. Sincerely, Michael Choi __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:16:52 Subject: the_dojang: Associations - - A lighter look! Let's see if I can amusingly sum up some of the statements made on associations. All in fun! 1. My association is better 2. My association is bigger 3. My association is oldest 4. My association is the only one teaching "true" _______ 5. My teacher is better [and has never been in jail] 6. My teacher is senior to yours 7. My teacher once beat your teacher up 8. My teacher could beat your teacher up 9. My teacher beat up Bruce Lee, twice 10. My teacher did not leave his for money or politics 11. My dan certificates are better 12. My dan certificates are bigger 13. My dan certificates are recognized everywhere [like my Visa card] 14. I've never met my teacher [dan signatory], but I hear he's very nice 15. I've sent my association money, never received any services, but the expensive dan certificate is very nice 16. I teach full time, like only "real" instructors do 17. I don't teach for profit 18. My students train harder, longer, and with more feeling than yours 19. I'm saying all this because I believe it 20. I'm saying all this because my instructor's listening 21. I'm saying all this because I want your money and for you to join me. 22. I'm saying all this because there is no one answer or easy solution and I remained confused by all the sometimes conflicting information 23. I'm saying all this because humor is integral to life and we all tend to take ourselves too seriously. Humorously and respectfully, Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:14:08 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Why do they ask? I would like to make a comment about this subject. When I first started training in hapkido about fifteen years ago I had an excellent technician for my instructor. He was fantastic at teaching me the techniques and the fine points that made the difference between an effective technique and useless wish. He taught me the mechanics and principles through demonstration and example. And he did this all very well despite one slight draw back. His English was very poor and my attempts at trying to learn Korean were dreadful to say the least. I didn't learn the history and philosophy that people seem to think is so easy to find because my instructor and myself had a language barrier that prevented all but some of the most basic instruction in it. This does not mean that I am less devoted than anyone else or less interested it is simply a statement of fact. Some one this list seem to think that this knowledge of history and philosophy is the proof of dedication, I would have to say that it is an individuals sincerity in their practice of their art. Politics are an unfortunate byproduct of bringing any group of people together and usually only detract from the main pursuit. I don't know the politics and history behind all of the Korean martial arts, but I have seen the history repeatedly changed by each person, master or grandmaster to which I have spoken to. I would actually like to know the true history, but In the end the question becomes does it truly matter? Does it affect how you practice your art? Respectfully, Richard Zaruba ____________________________________________________________________________ "Large egos are carried by small minds." Anon. ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:15:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: various About the "hapkido vs. kuk-sool vs. hwarangdo," I think we should learn from Grandmaster He-Young Kimm of Hanmudo. He has always wrote histories of Korean martial arts without picking favorites and hard historical facts. Also, what an accomplishment, his hanmudo is recognized and praised by Grandmaster Jae Han Ji of Hapkido and Grandmaster In Hyuk Suh of Kuk Sool Won. Not only that, but Grandmaster Joo Bang Lee of Hwarangdo credits Dr. Kimm's Hapkido Bible as one of the greatest accomplishments for Hapkido. WRT to Korean American Communities, Hawaii is the oldest (dating back around 1903, prior to Hawaii being a US State. Los Angeles, without question, is the largest. Koreans gravitate to the biggest cities. My guess, second place would be New York. Either Washington DC or Boston or Chicago would be third. But then, I'm no sociologist. Better to ask the experts. (New Village) Saemaeul Hapkido disappeared and was eventually replaced by Korea Hapkido Federation (Sa Dan Bub In Hapkido Hyubhyoe). Cheers, Michael Choi __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 7:50:33 PST Subject: the_dojang: names > and praised by Grandmaster Jae Han Ji of Hapkido That is Ji Han-jae not Ji Jae-han... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:20:22 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Its' KoreA Hapkido Federation Dear Alain: Good going and thanks for the info. At least this gives us a place to start. "... For Bruce, KHF = Korea Hapkido Federation with President Oh, Se-Lim, patch with the pointing finger..." For clarity then everything I am going to ask now is in reference to the KoreA Hapkido Federation with Oh, Se-Lim who is alive and well and president of the organization, yes? 1.) I understand that due to a nuance in the Korean language there is some difficulty in translating or differentiating between an "Association" (" an organization of persons having common interests, purposes, etc.")and a "Federation" ("an organization of united states, groups, collectives, etc. by agreement of each member to subordinate its power to that of the central authority in common affairs. By definition then, an association tends to be a bit more egalitarian and perhaps a bit less restrictive (my interpretation). For the moment, let me assume that the title "Korea Hapkido Federation" is accurate. Can I know what that "central authority" is? Does GM Oh preside independently or is there a board of directors? May I know who are on the board, or who are the closest decision-makers in developing policy? 2.) Does the Korea Hapkido Federation have by-laws or other written policy identifying their position on various issues and guidelines for conduct by their members? 3.) The next question concerned curriculum but I think people have answered this for me. I understand that there is both a written as well as a video taped series that identifies the basic material which comprises Hapkido as defined by the KHA. Did I understand folks to say that this material is available for purchase? Which brings me to the next question. 4.) Is there a designated liaison between the Federation and its membership. When I think of this I am considering the usual contact information such as identified contact person, address, ph#, e-mail, and fax. By way of extension, and knowing that the KHF is based in Korea, is there a representative in the US and is that representation singular or multiple. By this I mean is there but one spokesperson for the KHF in the US or are their multiple representatives (say, one for each region). If there are multiple representatives in what manner do these many rep coordinate their efforts? 5.) Finally, in what manner is policy and procedure executed and enforced. Among the various things I would want to know about are a.) How is the position, philosophy and beliefs of the KHA propagated? Is there a reliable census of member schools/individuals? Is there a reliable directory of member schools/individuals in good standing? b.) How are non-member Hapkido practitioners, and members who practice Hapkido secondary to another art addressed. c.) How are ethical issues such as misrepresentation, falsification of credentials, modification of materials etc. addressed? d.) Are there minimum standards of competency, equiptment and deportment for individuals desiring to teach as opposed to merely wanting to study and practice? NOW--- Before people start tuning up on me let me say that there is nothing here intended to embarrass, hurt, affront or insult anyone, 'kay? All of the questions I am asking here are basic informational questions anybody who is interested in joining any organization would want to know. If I joined a Golf association I would expect to be provided the same information so that I could make a decent decision about what I was getting into, right? And as tedious as this might become, you can expect that all the rest of the organizations on Rays' list are going to be asked the same questions. The TKD people seem to have a pretty good idea of the major movers and shakers in the ITF and WTF, and apparently the same is true for World Kumdo Assn, and Dae Han Kumdo, Kuk Sool Won and Hwa Rang Do. I don't think this is too much to ask. Please bear with me, and thank you in advance for your support in this project. BTW: Before I try to contact someone to speak for the KoreaN Hapkido Assn or Federation, is there anyone on the Net who can provide the sort of information that was proffered by so many regarding the KoreA Hapkido Federation? I would like to do them next. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido. com ------------------------------ From: Todd Miller Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:46:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Martial Art Associations? Ray you forgot one. Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association 4th Floor Bek Kwang building 39-14 Samduk 1 Street Chung-Ku Daegu city South Korea Thanks Todd ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi15@netscape.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:50:06 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Which KHA? Master Hal Whalen's Mooyekwan is a member of Korea Hapkido Association whose Chairman is Hwang Duk-kyu. The Korean name of Korea Hapkido Association is Daehan Hapkido Hyubhoe [my romanization] (대한합기도협회). He and Oh, Se-lim both trained under Ji, Han-jae. Interestingly enough, the Korean Hapkido Federation's Korean name is Sadan Bubin Hapkido Hyubhoe [again, my romanization] (사단법인 대한합기도협회). The name of the two organizations' names are identical except for sadan bubin, which is Korean for non-profit organization. That designation only means that the government recognizes the organization as a not-for-profit organization. [Another example would the Christian Ethics Movement (Sadan Bubin Kidokyo Yulli Undong), it is not part of the government, but only recognized as a non-profit organization, like the Red Cross.] For the government to recognize the rank given by the organization is another question altogether. About the KHF, from what I can see, it's democratic for a martial arts organization (if that's possible in hierarchical, Confucian Korean society). Oh, Se-lim is the president but many of the leaders of the KHF are his colleagues, not his sub-ordinates (I think). My grandmaster, YU CHUN-HEE, was a student of Grandmaster Jae-han Ji. Interestingly, while I was in class, this much older gentleman visited our dojang. When I asked who he was, Master Lee told me that it was one of Grandmaster Ji's senior students. It got me thinking.... According to the Hapkido Bible by Dr. Kimm, the ROK Korean government recognizes the rank issued by only the KHF, Kidohae, and IHF for their martial arts police. (Would anyone share what that is?) BTW, the KHF, Kidohae, and IHF all have sadan bubin or non-profit status. They are all recognized by the Ministry of Culture (cf. Steve Seo's posting). BTW: I watched on the TV News a demonstration of the Korean SWAT teams. They put on an excellent martial arts demo! Cheers, Michael Choi __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:02:51 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: HKD videos >>>>>Alain, were you able to obtain yours direct from the KHF headquarters or did you go through Master Kim Nam-jae (the creator)? Just curious. I may import several more copies into the US if folks are interested in obtaining copies (however, they are in Korean & hangul only).<<<<< Ray and others, Yi Saeng brought the set over for me last year when she came. My instructor in Kangnung got them for her and she believes he got them from Moosoolsa in Seoul, not the KHF headquarters. Michael Choi on the list is familiar with the place and can probably let us know. Alain ------------------------------ From: Steve Seo Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:06:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: hapkido Mr. Terry, I agree that many schools in Korea teach Hapkido in the very strictest meaning of the term. It seems to me that in general however, the idea of Hapkido has been such a huge phenomenon in Korea that its sometimes difficult to really put a defintion of who's Hapkido and who's not. I suppose that we've kind of beaten this point to death, I just wanted to convey a different view point based on my experience with Hapkido. I hope everyone takes that as you they may. Regarding openess of information, I appreciate everyones curiosity and desire for information regarding Hapkido and the Korean martial arts. Due to the nature of our arts' histories, it sometimes difficult to discuss these matters without full blown fights and bad mouthings occurring. My hope is that everyone has an open mind and is more concerned about going forward than revisiting mistakes and conflicts of the past. Ok, that's just me giving my two cents. Steve Seo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:48:59 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Testing thoughts. Dear Rudy: "... I was pondering whether a black belt test should include all of the > techniques the student has learned on their journey to that test or only be > tested on the new techniques learned from 1st Gup...." I didn't catch the perosn who made the original post but thought I would share how we test at MIDWEST HAPKIDO. Since we use an academic approach I suppose one would say that our BB test is cummulative. However, since each rank is predicated directly on what was learned in the previous rank it is not really necessary to do an exhaustive examination of the entire catalogue of every technique for all four guep ranks. Add to this the fact that our 1st Guep (Brown) executes all of the techniques in free-form ("off the punch, kick or strike") so the assumption is that if a person can execute these techniques they certainly would be able to accomplish the same off a grab, right?. Weapons work starts at 1st BB so thats not really an issue. Just my 2 cents. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Anne Skjold" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:38:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #178 In our school, WTF TKD with some Hapkido, Black belt candidates are tested on all material learned on the journey especially forms, we MUST know all the forms. From one colored belt to the next we do it incrementally not cumulativley. Ms Anne (4th Gup) From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:11:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Should Black Belt testing be cumulative or just the techniques since last promotion. I was pondering whether a black belt test should include all of the techniques the student has learned on their journey to that test or only be tested on the new techniques learned from 1st Gup. In other words, as one progresses through the ranks does their next belt test require demonstration of techniques back to white belt or just the techniques learned since their last promotion. I hope those responding will be from both Taekwondo and Hapkido backgrounds. P.S. Also I want to recognize that senior and executive adults may have more difficulty with a cumulative test and therefore a paring of that test may be beneficial. ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:54:20 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Bennies of getting the word out Dear Ray and Richard: "...FWIW, we had a former member here that thought he knew all the answers. So much so that he never took the opportunity to learn from others on the list. After all why should he, he already had all the answers. Interestingly those folks usually have more to learn than they have to offer...." I hope you both know that you are doing a great job of advertising exactly why I think these efforts are so important. Sometimes when I am working at this stuff I remember a client who is probably a a member of an ethnic minority. It need not really matter which minority because I have seen the same thing happen over and over. Said member will be talking with me and I will be explaining in detail and that persons' head is going up and down and they are smiling like crazy. Sometime later I get feedback from another counselor that said minority member is out in left field about the very thing I was explaining. But everything that guy was doing was suppose to be telling me that he understood, right? I don't know about you guys, but from the earliest years I can remember, being "stupid" or made to look stupid was one of the worst fears kids could have. A lot of people won't talk on a Net like this because they don't want to be embarrassed or shamed to find themselves faced with someone who knows more and beats them up with it. I see two things coming out of this. 1.) People won't ask questions so they fill in their intellectual holes with whatever clap-trap they can scrape together for themselves. (IE. Did you know that GM Choi supposedly served as second to OS Takeda's seppuku? I swear to you I'm not making this up! Apparently it was just too lame for OS Takeda to die of pneumonia in April, 1943.). 2.) The other option is for people to exploit the silence and shovel any old stuff that will fill the silence. With nobody to ask questions you would be amazed (well, maybe not) the garbage people identifying themselves as "in-the-know" write about. I know I said this before but I am really starting to find a new respect for the way things are developing with the TKD people. They still have their differences but they seem to have gotten passed a lot of the nit-picking and back-biting. Or do I just not know what's going on. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:01:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Black belt testing "T. Kennelly" wrote > >I was pondering whether a black belt test should include all of the techniques the student has learned on their journey to that test or only be tested on the new techniques learned from 1st Gup. In other words, as one progresses through the ranks does their next belt test require demonstration of techniques back to white belt or just the techniques learned since their last promotion. Neither and both. If only the techniques learned since the last promotion are asked for, those are likely to be the only ones worked on. So the previous ones won't be maintained, and will soon be forgotton. Which makes for a poor martial artist. If a test includes ALL the techniques the student has learned, testings will take forever. Some people can go all day showing creative applications of just ONE technique. A testing should be a SAMPLING of techniques, BOTH from the lastest set and also showing further development and/or mastery of previous sets. It should be the judges' choice of situation or attack; and the student's choice of technique, based on what the student has learned and likes/performs the best. (Within reason and for that particular martial art, can't have the student pulling out his .357 for every attack!) For ANY testing. A black belt testing should have more cumulative stuff than any others; a black belt should mean competancy in and understanding of the basics and principles of that martial art. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:08:00 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Thanks, Richard Dear Richard: "...There are very few people who can understand my commitment to what I do. I want to see martial arts taught as a way for people to improve every aspect of their lives...." I don't think I am telling tales out of school to say that whenever and wherever you name pops up there is a lot of energy that follows closely behind. I don't know what this is--- and I think probably I would rather stay blissfully ignorant in this particular case if its all the same to everyone. The reason that I am taking a moment out to comment about this is that I will bet that whatever your motives for what you do, you will probably, for the foreseeable future have to contend with first addressing a screen of suspicion in the mind of your audience. If this is the result of something you did, or someones' perception of what you did, I don't think matters much at this juncture. What I think does matter is that you are continuing to make an effort to provide feedback on your story from your point of view so that people can make intelligent decisions. Do I necessarily agree with what you have to say or what your approach is? Maybe not. But I want to say that I appreciate you taking the risk to put your information out there and hope that you and a lot of other people who are beginning to chip in continue your efforts. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:07:58 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #181 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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