From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #186 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 20 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 186 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Vice Presidential Spelling Bee winner? the_dojang: Re: Charlie Brown the_dojang: thin skin the_dojang: Re: growing school the_dojang: HKD in Albuquerque? the_dojang: Re: Body Movement moves me. the_dojang: Re: KHF Stuff the_dojang: Female Teachers the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #185 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wallace, John" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:38:59 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Vice Presidential Spelling Bee winner? Potatoe Mr. McD? Danny Quayle would be proud. No offense intended :) - -JW ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:45:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Charlie Brown >>McD... >> >>P.S. "Why's everbody always picking on me"= Charlie Brown, The Drifters (I >>think). > > Actually, it was the Coasters...J.R. West .....Old enough to >remember...Bored enough to care You mean it wasn't the basketball team shower singers on the White Shadow tv show? My education has been neglected!! David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Mary Braud Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:06:15 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: thin skin To everyone: Hi! I guess I could be considered a 'lurker' because I just really enjoy reading, and don't feel like putting the thought and effort into posting my own original threads.. (self-deprecating grin here) However, I feel motivated now because of what appears to be personal attacks taking a main line, whether the writer intended them too or not. As people, we all carry emotional luggage around, and that is what usually shapes our very-interesting (read witty) replies. I would also like to add that this is a list, and most of us have never met and have no idea how others may interpret our posts. In the spirit of continued harmony, and to refrain from turning this list into a "National Enquirer" email (without the doctored pictures), I would like to suggest that if a post appears to be directed as a personal attack, that it would be wise to email that person DIRECTLY with a simple introduction and bluntly ask if they have a problem with you/your idea/your style/etc... This will give everyone involved the chance to explain their reasoning without having attacks and counter attacks involved. One of the big problems with the DD (through no fault of it's own) is that it is a list, and you may shoot off a reply (to the list), only to find that if you would have seen the next post, you may not have shot off that indignated response... Please don't get me wrong, I find it rather interesting to watch the ebb and flow of heated discussions, but sometimes it could lead to a DD member quitting the list, and we would then lose part of that which makes us so unique... Sorry for the long-winded post, I guess sometimes I fancy myself as a 'Dear Abby!' Thanks, Mary P.S. Feel free to email me directly ;-) if you feel that I'm attacking you! ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:08:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: growing school > >From: "Mr. Klingler" >Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:54:09 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: growing school > >I have been teaching for nearly two years now and wish to grow the size of >my dojang. I belong to an organization which has been aroud for about for >about 25 years. My grandmaster took lessons from grandmaster Choi (from >Columbus, Ohio) who was a student of Byung Chik Ro. I am a 2nd dan testing >for my third in about 2 more years. I have tried some newspaper advertising >and have had some response but not to the degree I need. I have been hounded >by tv and radio statioins to use their services but find it to be a little >expensive for the return I expect. Also, my time away from the dojang is >tight. I am employed full time, continuing my education, and just had our >first child. > >Would anyone like to make a comment, advice, criticism? > Boy does that ring some bells...closed my storefront last year for more time with our first child. Teaching now out of my TKD instructor's dojang. Do you have some help? Another instructor to now and then handle the class becomes essential as you gain students. As a part-timer you simply can't do things like after-school programs or booths at malls to let people easily 'win' free intro lessons. No mass media advertising worked worth anything whatsoever for me, with the exception of a newspaper ad directed at aerobic kickboxing run during the first two weeks of January. What I found that worked consistently: word of mouth, bring a friend promotions, big family discounts, big discount intro. coupons left wherever I could. Many places have business card bulletin boards or a little counter space where they'll let you put something; especially if you recipricate. None of which takes too much time or $. Hope that helps, David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: "Ron Bain" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:25:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: HKD in Albuquerque? Hi everyone, Got a request...was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on schools in Albuquerque? > I am looking for a school or even a teacher of Hapkido in Albuquerque > New Mexico. Do you know of any? Please let me know. Also, thanks Ray for the kind words on the MAR website update. Enjoyed doing it...since it was my "baby" way back when. Ron <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Korean Hoshinsul On-Line: http://hoshinsulonline.tripod.ca Sr. Computer Tech. - Cambrian College: http://www.cambrianc.on.ca <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:10:38 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Body Movement moves me. Dear Jose': ".... This is most interesting to me. I have come to wonder if the different Hapkido kwans or styles can be identified by characteristic approaches to movement or some such stylistic signature. Can any one speak to this? That is, can you delineate some of the various Hapkido styles or kwans and characterize them in terms of their style or characteristic approaches to movement? Also, what do you think the sources of these differences are? Are they the stamp of an individual Master's style? or are they do to the influence by other martial arts? ..." Okay, sucker, you asked for it! Boy are YOU gonna be sorry for picking a subject I just LOVE to talk about. In case you haven't guess it, here it is four books later and I still eat-up biomechanics with a fork and spoon. But I will spare you -- this time-- so here is just a real quickie overview. Just for a moment put aside individual quirks like an personal tendency to favor a particular hand or foot. While we are at it, you can shelve any political or personal axes people might have to grind that would cause a splintering of arts or styles into sub-sections. Just take a moment and do the math. The Koreans are caught beteen to cultures who view the use of the body in different ways when it comes to martial tradition. I could make a lot of gross generalizations and start some fights about where the line is drawn, but the simple fact is that depending on whether a persons' tradition is more heavily influenced by Chinese factors or by Japanese factors is going to have a lot to do with how the body is used. Another point to consider is that not all use of the body is executed at the same level of sophistication. Daito-ryu defines three levels of sophistication in the execution of its material, the most basic being "jitsu" (K. Sool) or technique which is the simple mechanistic use of the body (calling it using muscle if you want to). The second level is "aiki-jujitsu" in which the execution of the technique is augmented by disruption of the oppenents to maintain his center, balance, timing, volition. In "aikijujitsu the same technique may be done but the opponet is first unbalanced, un-timed, misaligned or otherwise unsettled or disrupted in his attack which facilitates the defenders application of the technique. Finally there is "aiki-jitsu" this is that rarified atmosphere that Aiki practitioners love to masturbate to death with all kinds of cosmic interpretations. Nothing cosmic to it. At this level the practitioner has learned to use the attackers own reflexive responses against him. Pretty sophisticated stuff, but S. Okamoto of the Roppokai does a lot better job talking about things at this level of sophistication than I ever could. Can you differentiate among various kwans according to this information? Well, yes and no. Most kwans never get to the point where they examine this material because the students are too much in a rush to get back to open their own schools or kwans and present the material like they knew it all the time. So stuff gets lost there. Then theres the fact that most people really are only interested in dropping people on their a** and get real bored real fast when teacher gets beyond "see-spot-run" sophistication in his lecture. There are some rare exceptions. Schools associated with the late Myung, Jae-num (IHF) were exposed to some of this by virtue of GM Myungs attempt to relate to the Aikido people in Japan. I understand that GM Jang was given to discussing this sort of material but there is still a wealth I don't know about him and his approach. You might as S Todd Miller about GM Lim and the approach of the Jung Ki Kwan. Not being a Kuk Sool person I can't speak for them and their biomechanic except on the basis of what I have read in GM Seo's book. Ditto for GM Lee and the HwaRangDo people. But we have S Steve Seo and S Carsten on here so maybe they can go into greater detail. Anthing I would add here would be more conjecture than anything else. BTW: Most of what I was taught from GM Myung, Kwang Sik was a much tighter and authoratative biomechanic than what I have seen from just about everyother student of GM Ji. On the other hand, the late GM Park (Mu Sool Kwan) left behind a number of students whose movements that I have seen and practiced with are even larger (though not necessarily softer) than GM Ji's students. There was probably a time when you would have been able to identify various groups at a distance but I think those times are closing fast. Thanks for the exercise. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:53:07 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: KHF Stuff Dear Bruce and others, Regarding the questions concerning KHF, I can only answer a bit. There are others on this list that may be able to answer more. One of the reasons I can't answer some of your questions is that I never cared, nor do I care that much now. I'm not really concerned with who has what rank from what organization, and I don't know enough about many of the HKD organizations out there to say one way or the other about them. And passing on "I heard this" or "I heard that" doesn't really mean much either. Here is what I do know personally. I am familier with five HKD schools in Kangnung, South Korea. Two of these just opened and I saw them for the first time this last January when I was over there. My instructor Lee Jun-kyu opened one and my friend Kim Hyun opened the other. When I lived there before, both of them trained at a different school. Sabomnim Lee taught at this different school, so he was my main instructor. The owner of the other school was Kwanjangnim Kim Young-jong. The other two schools I know of are the Sesong Hapkido schools since my instructor is also afiliated with the Sesong Kwanjangnim. All of these schools are under the KHF (Korea Hapkido Federation) with Oh Se-Lim the president. My dan certificates are signed by GM Oh Se-Lim. I have never met Oh Se-Lim, but have seen him on a video that I watched with my instructor of a big demonstration in Seoul. I never really cared much for the political aspects or the chain of command. I know GM Oh Se-Lim is the president because he signed the dan certificates and my instructor told me he was the president of KHF. All of these schools have GM Choi Young-Sool pictures on the walls. He is referred to as Doju-nim, and the founder of HKD by my instructors. My instructor did give me a HKD tree that showed the various students of certain GM, etc. and we went through it some. Some names I recognized such as GM Ji, GM Han, etc. Others I didn't. I know there is a grey book that has the hapkido hoshinsul up to 2nd dan. The beginning has some history and other stuff but the majority of the book is the hoshinsul. The book is in Korean. The video tapes that I mentioned and now have I never saw in Korea. (Never looked, I was too busy learning as I went to two classes a day) I learned of these videos here in the States, and then had Yi Saeng bring me the set last year. She asked Sabomnim Lee to get them for her since she didn't know where. He did. I don't know if these are supposed to be "the Official" KHF tapes or anything, I just know GM Kim Nam-jae who did them is under the KHF. The KHF logo is also on the tapes. Holcome Thomas is in these tapes. He lived and taught in the Pusan area. Holcome was very helpful to me when I was dealing with imigration. I also remember a picture of him in a TKD Times that mentioned his teaching in Pusan. The picture was of him and GM Kimm He-Young I believe. As for who in the states is afiliated, I don't know. Obviously Richard Hackworth is one, but I don't know others. There doesn't seem to be a lot of KHF people here in the States. (Not many HKD people period up here in Montana) In the future, I'd like to be set up where I can take students over to Korea and train with my instructors there and have them test for rank in Korea, etc. But that is in the future. I know this doesn't answer all of the questions posed, but I don't know some of the things and don't have the time or money right now to make calls to Korea for these issues. Rather call for other things. I know for me, I will continue to train and go over to visit and train with my insturctor in Korea and continue to advance in the KHF. It's because of who my instructor Lee Jun-Kyu is, not what organization he belongs to. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:36:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Female Teachers Leslie, There are a good number of female teachers out there. I actually began my martial arts training when i was a child with a Tai chi teacher... of course we had the stertypical big guy who decided not to do it, i think because she was a female... but she was excellent. frank Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:07:54 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #185 Display advertising in my small town newspaper always flops. I can spend $45 for a display ad, or $5 for a classified ad and get the same two calls. Radio, forget it, too expensive. Flyers all around town, get the schools to put them out for you. Word of mouth, T-shirts, be visible, buddy days etc. gary pieratt In a message dated 3/20/01 3:27:39 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have tried some newspaper advertising and have had some response but not to the degree I need. I have been hounded by tv and radio statioins to use their services but find it to be a little expensive for the return I expect. Also, my time away from the dojang is tight. I am employed full time, continuing my education, and just had our first child. Would anyone like to make a comment, advice, criticism? John >> New CKC Web Page ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:43:31 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #186 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.