From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To:        the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #189
Reply-To:  the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Precedence: 


The_Dojang-Digest           Thur, 22 March 2001        Vol 08 : Num 189

In this issue:

       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #188
       the_dojang: First things
       the_dojang: Re: Pop Quiz
       the_dojang: Female Instructors
       the_dojang: Video review  - Fierce and Female
       the_dojang: First teachings
       the_dojang: <no subject>
       the_dojang: Re: First Teachings
       the_dojang: Tightness
       the_dojang: Ghost Dog=brief movie review
       the_dojang: tightness and authority of technique
       the_dojang: .
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From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:21:54 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #188

In a message dated 3/21/01 9:50:51 PM Central Standard Time, 
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:

<< What are some of the first things (save how to bow, where the bath rooms 
are,
 how to stand at attention or at ease, etc) that are taught in your school?
 e.g. when I began in Tang Soo Do you started with the kibons, some very very
 simple forms.  When I began in Sin Moo Hapkido we started with the "Basic 8",
 a simple series of eight basic defensive and offensive techniques.  Also 
 the basic breakfalls; front, side, back, etc.
 
 How about you?
 
 Ray Terry >>
First things I teach: (yellow belt)
Stances, breakfalls, one-steps 1&2, front kick, side kick, round house kick, 
rising strike, inside strike, outside strike, downward strike, middle punch. 
gary pieratt
 <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/ckctaekwondo/index.html">New CKC Web Page
</A> 

------------------------------

From: Emactkd@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:26:30 EST
Subject: the_dojang: First things

First, how to make a fist.  Second, how to pull back your toes.  Then front 
stance downblock, knee kicks, front kicks, back stance outblock, back fall, 
front fall, side fall, forward roll. 

Wrist side throw .  Basic defense against a close-in knife attack (Static)

Then a kibon hyung.

Then the directions to the hot tub and cold dip.

Rick Foley

------------------------------

From: ABurrese@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:40:32 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Pop Quiz

Bruce wrote:
<< 1.) "Me and my students don't care about history or lineage." 
 2.) "Me and my students don't care about personalitiesor organizations."
 3.) "Me and my students don't get bogged down in all the philosophy and 
ethics." 
 4.) "Me and my students don't let ourselves get buried in a lot of detail 
and analysis." 
 5.) Me and my students don't stick to any one curriculum or syllabus, we 
just take from anywhere. Hapkido is simply what works. ">>

Hmm...  While I understand where you are coming from, I guess I'm one of 
those you criticize for in my last post I said organizations and such were 
not that important to me.

I do think there is a big difference in the five statements you made.  
History and lineage are important to a point, but just as we have seen on 
this list, it gets pretty messed up and distracting from the real meaning 
behind training.  All the my grandmaster is better than your grandmaster, my 
hapkido is "real" hapkido and yours isn't, my organization is the only "real" 
organization, and so on not only gets tiring, but turns a lot of people off 
from the art.  I lived in Korea and trained in a Korean Hapkido school that 
happened to be part of the Korea Hapkido Federation.  That's about as "real" 
hapkido as you are going to get.  (No, I'm not saying only KHF is "real" 
hapkido, just that I don't think you can say what I was learning was/is not 
hapkido.)  I'm sure the other organizations in Korea and elsewhere are 
teaching "real" hapkido too.  And there are probably some people teaching 
"Hapkido" that aren't really teaching Hapkido.  But what do all of these 
other organizations have to do with me?  Not much.  I'm not going to go 
around saying, "I train in and teach KHF Hapkido, not that XYZ and ABC 
Hapkido wannabe stuff."  What purpose would that have?

I understand you have a very inquisitive mind and want to know who, what, 
where and how.  But please understand that not everyone cares as much about 
what everyone else is doing. 

As for philosophy, ethics, detail and analysis, those are completely 
different areas.  While I'm not as interested in all the different 
organizations out there, (Mostly not interested in all the bickering between 
them) these four areas are extremely important in my book, and areas I am 
continuously studying and implementing into my own training, teaching, and 
writing.

As for your number 5 on the list, not sure just what you mean.  If you are 
against those that just throw a few techniques learned here and there 
together and call it Hapkido, I understand.  However, at the same time, while 
I consider myself a Hapkidoin now, I also have not thrown out all of the 
training and experiences from before I got serious with Hapkido.  So what I 
do is different from what other Hapkido people may do because of the 
different backgrounds.  So if I pick up something from Silat when visiting 
Marc, it may get incorporated into my training and then teaching.  When I 
head to the gym with Thad and practice something out of Brett Jacques' Street 
Sambo video it becomes a part of me.  And so on, you get the picture.

The point of all of this?  There really are no strict black and white 
answers. Who's syllabus is correct?  With all of them out there, who knows?  
Wouldn't it be more productive for each of us to share our syllabuses and WHY 
we teach or train that way?  One of the projects I have been working slowly 
on is a training syllabus and regimen for myself.  It is one I will teach 
from when it is developed more and I get situated somewhere.  Much of it is 
from the KHF syllabus as I learned in Korea, but not all.  Why?  Because I 
personally also train with firearms, something NOT Hapkido.  But it is part 
of my martial training, and is an area I will also write about and teach.  I 
also like some of the ground fighting from other styles and train that way at 
times.  (Note, I do this because I enjoy it.  It's fun, a good workout, and 
can come in handy.  But I also don't care much for groundfighting in a real 
fight since it too often leaves you open to get stomped by your opponent's 
buddies, hence why I didn't go into a lot of ground fighting in my new video 
"Self Defense Essentials.")

As I get more of my training organized and put down, I'll post some here.  
I'd be interested in knowing what others do as well.  

This is getting quite long, so I'll stop rambling now and do some school work.

Yours in Training,
Alain Burrese
http://members.aol.com/aburrese/

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" <innae@netexpress.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:35:18 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: Female Instructors

Hello

Leslie stated
	"I'm curious how many of the folks out there in DD-Land regularly or
occasionally 	train with female instructors?"

I started Tae Kwon Do about 11 years ago. I was invited by a friend of mine
to class and have never looked back. The instructors were a husband and wife
team. At the time he was a 2nd dan and she was a 1st. I still train at the
same school, and I think that I still have footprints that were left by her
turning side kick from those first few weeks of training. She was and still
is an amazing martial artist even after having 2 kids. Im not saying that
because shes my instructor, she routinely cleans up on the local tourney
circuit. I have as much respect for her as I do for any of the black belts
in our schools and there are many of them. I think because of her the women
in our school are treated equally.

Thanks
Ken Legendre
2nd Dan (hopefully soon to be 3rd)
innae@netexpress.net

------------------------------

From: ABurrese@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:32:00 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Video review  - Fierce and Female

Trying to catch up on a lot of things.  Here's a review I've been meaning to 
do.

Fierce and Female with Melissa Soalt, aka Dr. Ruthless
2-Tape Set.  Color, approx. 140 min. total.  $59.95

Available from Paladin Press, Gunbarrel Tech Center, 7077 Winchester Circle, 
Boulder, CO 80301; (303)443-7250; Fax (303)442-8741; to order call (800) 
466-6868 or online at http://www.paladin-press.com.  ($5.00 P&H charge added 
to orders)

Melissa Soalt's Fierce and Female video set is not only an excellent program 
on practical rape defense, but also a solid self-defense instructional 
program for men and women alike.  The tapes are filled with important 
principles, strategies and simple techniques that everyone should know if 
attacked.  

While the tape will benefit men, its target audience is women, and one of 
Soalt's strongest attributes is showing that a woman can and should fight 
back.  She doesn't only give the tools such as strikes to the eyes and 
throat, palm heel strikes, elbow strikes, groin strikes, head twist takedowns 
and other self-defense techniques, but she also addresses a woman's emotional 
state and how to remain focused and not be paralyzed by the fear that goes 
with an attack.  (Take note men, physical violence is scary for the masculine 
types too.)  

Tape one starts off with some basic principles and commandments.  These were 
quick and to the point, and I would have liked to have seen Soalt spend a 
little more time on them because of their importance.  However, knowing how 
time is a critical factor when putting together a video program, I will just 
suggest here that all viewers watch this part a few times and really take 
head of what is presented.  The rest of tape one covers the techniques 
mentioned above and when and how to use them.

Tape two focuses on the principles and techniques you must use when you find 
yourself on the ground or floor.  Remember that this program is aimed at rape 
defense, so the ground defenses are based on a male attacker's attempts at 
rape on the ground.   Falling when pushed, kicks from the ground when the 
attacker is still standing, and things to do when the attacker is on top of 
you are some of what's covered in this second tape.

In both tapes, Soalt shows the techniques full force on her two opponents.  
Both Michael Haynack and Brynn Stephens wear padded assault training suits 
enabling Soalt to go full bore with her techniques.  Soalt has an extensive 
background with the padded assault scenario-based training and her use of it 
here is very effective.  At times, the attacker's language and actions are 
offensive and scary, and that's just how it will be in a real attack, only 
much worse.  Watching this tape will give you a glimpse of what an attack may 
be like.  Listening to Soalt's message on how to combat your fear and fight 
back ferociously will empower you.  Practicing the techniques and following 
the principles presented in this program will enable you to successfully 
defend yourself if ever attacked. 

Reviewed by Alain Burrese, March 2001.

------------------------------

From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" <innae@netexpress.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:06:29 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: First teachings

Hmmm...

If your talking about what I was first taught then that goes something like
this.
	1.	Basic kicks (Front, round, side, inside crescent, and outside crescent)
	2.	Basic punches (middle, high, and chow chiggi 45 degree)
	3.	Basic blocks (High, low, inner forearm, and outer forearm)
	3.	Sa ju kong bongs (4 corner block and attack - very simple forms)
	4.	1-step sparring (3 Set attack and defenses)
	5. 	Self defense (Basic releases)
The self defense portion of this has been dropped along the way, but
everything else remains pretty much the same with a few minor changes to
technique.

Speaking of changes in technique, how many people out there have instructors
who change techniques or the mechanics of techniques? At our school it seems
that there are always a few minor changes going on. (Like a middle punch
changed to a high punch) I think occasionally Master Kim goes back and reads
his notes and decides that he wants to go back to the old way of doing
things, and Im just wondering if everybody goes through these kind of
changes.

thanks
Ken Legendre
2nd Dan (hopefully soon to be 3rd)
innae@netexpress.net

------------------------------

From: "Rudy Timmerman" <kwangjang@nkmaa.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:25:11 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: <no subject>

Dave writes:
> Would it matter to me if it were KHF,IHF,ICHF,TGT, or some other
> iteration?  Not in the least.  What would matter would be the quality
> of instruction, nothing more.

Hello Dave.
I have found this to be true for nearly all of the students that enrolled
with me over the past thirty some years.  In addition, most historical data
I have EVER read seemed to be slanted toward the side that authored it;
therefore, I agree with your later statement of floggin the old horse.

As far as Biomechanics are concerned, I could care less if the biomechanics
of a technique don't follow the accepted rules of our esteemed scholars.
I make the technique work for the person I am teaching, and I don't care if
I have to invent new biomechanics to do it.  I guess that makes me a
wannabee (with fifty years experience).
Sincerely, Rudy
National Korean Martial Arts Association

------------------------------

From: Ken McDonough <maganda44@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the_dojang: Re: First Teachings

Ray T asked:

<In an attempt to get away from the organization and people bashing for at
least a day or two...

What are some of the first things (save how to bow, where the bath rooms 
are,
how to stand at attention or at ease, etc) that are taught in your school?
e.g. when I began in Tang Soo Do you started with the kibons, some very 
very
simple forms.  When I began in Sin Moo Hapkido we started with the "Basic 
8",>

Response:  In KSW= basic wrist releases, then clothing grabs starting from
the upper to lower body, break falls. In Hapkido and Tang Soo Do= basic
kicks, terminology, break falls. In Eskrima=basic 12 strikes, basic
defenses
to stick strikes, offensive and defensive drills, followed by disarms.

Now here is one for you trivia freaks. Assume I am discussing a 60's muscle
car. What song and what artist(s) did this line come from "...its got the
big slip, daddy !" 

Bye Bye,

McD...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:06:11 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Tightness

I know exactly what Mr. Simms is talking about when he mentions how some
GM's have a certain sense of tightness in their techniques.  GM Ji explains
when he teaches how to incorporate your complete body into the technique and
in the initial application,,, this is VERY important if you want to be able
to do your technique against an unwilling opponent.. I've heard many people
talk about this concept but I have seen very few that can actually do it.
It is no mystery why at 66 years old GM Ji can escape from your strong grasp
and turn you into a quivering bowl of lukewarm jello,,, his technique is
truly awesome,,, because he knows exactly WHY things work the way they do.
                                     Michael Tomlinson

------------------------------

From: Ken McDonough <maganda44@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:08:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the_dojang: Ghost Dog=brief movie review

A review of Ghost Dog Movie. I was correct, it was filmed in New York City,
where I grew up. 

<GHOST DOG:
THE WAY OF THE SAMURAI
Jim Jarmusch (1999)
Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai, written and directed by Jim Jarmusch,
revolves around its mythical character, a modern-day, New York contract
killer who lives by the rules of an eighteenth century warrior text.
Narrated from the main character's point of view, Ghost Dog: The Way of the
Samurai clashes its protagonist's lifestyle and philosophy with the
mentality of the Mafiosi who hire him. 
 
Known by a few as "Ghost Dog" (Forest Whitaker), the master of adaptability
lives on a rooftop, roams the streets unnoticed and executes his
assignments with calm determination. The quiet, solitary hit man owes his
efficiency to his strict adherence to the set of rules outlined in
"Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai". After pledging his loyalty to Louie
(John Tormey), a mobster who once saved his life, Ghost Dog becomes
indirectly involved with Ray Vargo (Henry Silva) and his wacky crime
family, including Sonny Valerio, Big Angie, Vinny and the Old Consigliere
(Cliff Gorman, Frank Minucci, Victor Argo and Gene Ruffini). Conflicts
arise when Loui sends Ghost Dog on a mission to kill Handsome Frank
(Richard Portnow) and Ray's attractive daughter Louise (Tricia Vessey)
unexpectedly becomes part of the process.

Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai finds humor by contrasting the Mafiosi
culture with Ghost Dog's Samurai philosophy, and by depicting a world where
characters speak different languages but say the same things. This becomes
evident when Ghost Dog befriends a French-speaking African ice cream vendor
(Isaach de Bankolé), with whom he carries on conversations by pure
intuition.

In spite of the excessive inter titles (which display the rules of the
Hagakure, and which interrupt the film's rhythm rather than simply guide
the plot sequences), Ghost Dog successfully represents the main character's
spirituality on a technical and narrative level. In one scene, a panoramic
shot of the streets is dissolved with a close-up shot of Ghost Dog,
stressing his point of view and blending it with movement. These concepts
are further explored through Ghost Dog's highly stylized movements, which
are enhanced by the use of chronophotography to produce a stroboscopic
effect (causing Ghost Dog's movements to appear "ghostly"). Furthermore,
Ghost Dog creatively fuses elements that are characteristic of different
movie genres. The film portrays a world that houses the cultures of
Japanese teachings, martial arts, mob iconography, hip-hop music (by THE
RZA), and even classic cartoons, such as Woody-Woodpecker and Felix the Cat
(which may be seen as satirizing the notion of violence through movement).
All in all, Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai offers the viewer a
caricatured and a dramatic exercise on subjectivity.>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" <burdickd@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:50:29 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: tightness and authority of technique

Bruce wrote:

>Authority is
> the firness of intent expressed through the execution of the 
> technique. GM
> Myungs' technique executed at full speed were extraordinarily 
> "tight" in
> that one got the distinct impression that there simply was no 
> "slop" (aka
> "play") when the technique is executed.

To me, this seems really a matter of skill rather than of style.
Someone who knows how to do a particular jointlock very well
can do it tighter with safety.  Anyone can do a technique with
authority and tightness, but unless they know what they are doing,
they are probably going to injury someone.  These days it is very
hard for me to do certain locks WITHOUT authority, and I have
to consciously back off when dealing with beginners so they don't
get scared off.  If I backed off all the time, then my upper ranks
would not be challenged.

>The
> reason I say that is there seem to be quite a few people who 
> characterize
> Hapkido as a combo of TKD and Yudo, and I often wonder where 
> that comes
> from. But, yes, I would say that if you mean that his biomechanic is
> reflective of more of a jitsu approach I would agree.

Ok, I have another problem with your definition.  "A jitsu approach"?
Does that mean, as Donn Draeger would have said, that his style is
more closely related to combative applications?  If so, then I would have
to say, "compared to what?" and "according to whom?"  You know me,
I'm always willing to shove my foot firmly in my mouth for the sake of the
art, but things have been tense enough around here, so I probably 
shouldn't! :)  

>I, too,
> wish somebody would provide some information on GM Chang. His 
> name crops up
> over and over again but I haven't the foggiest what hes' 
> about. 

I have had contact with one of his students, who says that GM Chang will
be releasing information soon (as in, January of 2001!).  We're all still 
waiting.

>I have always wondered if GM Choi, Yong Sul likewise passed
> through a similar multi-staged evolution before he passed on. 

I'd say that the answer was of course yes, since he was human.
Change is inherent in us.  But really, I think most of the variation
out there is much more a product of the changes his students went
through, not him.  His students added various kicks.  His students
added forms.  His students experimented with different methods
of application and different affiliations.  That's neither good nor 
bad, it is just is.  And of course, it is also just supposition and 
opinion on my part.

Ray writes:

> What are some of the first things (save how to bow, where the 
> bath rooms are,
> how to stand at attention or at ease, etc) that are taught in 
> your school?

In ACS, we start with basic kicks and punches, then basic falling, then
chokes, then escapes and situation self-defense, emphasizing
striking as counterattacks.  Then you test for yellow. At yellow 
you start jointlocks and throws.  At green you start on meridian
theory.  At blue you start on weapons. etc.

Take care,

Dakin
burdickd@indiana.edu

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 7:21:36 PST
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #189
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