From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #192 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 23 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 192 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Seminar in MA, reminder the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #191 the_dojang: Clarification on KHF and KHA the_dojang: The correct address for the Sogang University Online Korean classes website the_dojang: website for Korean books the_dojang: a real, live KHF 9th degree grandmaster in Seoul the_dojang: Pink the_dojang: .. too little descent Hapkido articles .. the_dojang: Re: Internal and/or External Power? Re: the_dojang: a real, live KHF 9th degree grandmaster in Seoul the_dojang: RE:I O U-s the_dojang: RE: To think, or not to think.... the_dojang: RE: Hips from an ol' hippy the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:15:31 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Seminar in MA, reminder I would like to announce once more a seminar in MA, jointly conducted by Superfoot Bill Wallace and Grand Master Young Ahn Kwon, in Tewksbury, MA, Saturday, March 31, from 1:30 to 5:30 PM. Bill Wallace is a martial arts legend and needs no introduction. Grand Master Kwon is an 8th degree black belt in Taekwondo, an 8th degree black belt in Hapkido with the World Hapkido Federation, and a former professional Tae kick boxer -- and was light weight Asian Kick Boxing Champion for three years. If anyone would like to come to the seminar, feel free to E-mail me privately or call Kwon's Taekwondo Academy at 978-858-3699. Thanks, Jose' ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:12:05 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #191 In a message dated 3/22/2001 7:05:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << ..its got the big slicks, daddy." >> I thought it was, too .... being that slicks are tires. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:31:50 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Clarification on KHF and KHA It's been brought to my attention that I caused some confusion because I interchanged the words "Korea" and "KoreaN" several times when referring to KHF and KHA. Sorry, the errors were due to my misspellings. For clarification, I will write the name of the head of the organization (with the surname following the given name), the English name of the organization, my romanization of the Korean name, as well as the Korean name in hangul characters. (Grandmaster) Se-Lim Oh, President (H8@e) The Korea Hapkido Federation (Sadan Bubin) Daehan Hapkido Hyubhoe ;g4\9}@N 4kGQGU1b55GyH8 (Grandmaster) Duk-kyu Hwang, President (H8@e) The Korea Hapkido Association Daehan Hapkido Hyubhoe 4kGQGU1b55GyH8 Cheers, Michael Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:39:03 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: The correct address for the Sogang University Online Korean classes website The link that I posted on the Dojang Digest was the homepage of the Korean Studies Center at Sogang University. If you want to access the online Korean classes, you will have to click the button "Online Classes." Here's the direct address: http://korean.sogang.ac.kr Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:36:15 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: website for Korean books [BTW: I changed my subscription to this lycos email address because it lets me sort my email by date, subject, sender. Sorry, if I confused you (yet again).] FYI: a company that's a "Korean version" of Amazon.com is at http://www.morning365.co.kr. Be warned, the website is totally in Korean. You all could also try the ROK National Assembly Library site (the Korean equivalent of the Library of Congress). Their site is http://www.nanet.go.kr. I found and took another look at the Donga Ilbo book review on Choson Seibup. Maybe I'll translate it this weekend. Fear not, I will post the translation on the Digest! Good luck, Michael Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:47:32 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: a real, live KHF 9th degree grandmaster in Seoul The other day, I noticed fliers in English on the Yonsei Korean Language Institute's bulletin boards advertising a Hapkido school. The fact that it said that you can study Hapkido with a "9. dan" caught my eye. The school is right by Independance Gate (Dongnipmun), about ten minutes from Yonsei Univ. and Ewha Women's Univ. I asked Grandmaster Yu (my kwanjang) if this guy was for real and he said "yes." He knew the guy and that he really was a KHF 9th degree black belt. The only confusing thing is the name of the grandmaster. On the flier, it said "In Mukwan (9. dan)," but Grandmaster Yu said the name is "Ra, In-dong." Anyway, I thought that the hapkido guys would be interested. (Some of you are probably wondering, "what is Mike's teacher, Grandmaster Yu's rank? Well, since he does not post his dan certificate in his office, I don't know. Plus, I don't ask because it's really not that polite in my case. I do know that he trained with Grandmaster Jae-han Ji, which is a lot higher than many of the teachers throughout Seoul and that's good enough for me. Besides, I don't care what my teacher's rank is, as long as his technique is awesome. FYI: The Korea Hapkido Federation recently appointed Grandmaster Yu to be the Chairman of its Referee Committee.) Michael Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:42:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Pink JR writes: > Here I go again..."I got the PINK SLIP daddy" (California term way back > for 'I have a clear title' ). JR, great to see that there are more of us that remember that far back. Rudy ------------------------------ From: Girts Kalnins Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:11:08 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: .. too little descent Hapkido articles .. Hello, Refering to latest discussion of too little descent Hapkido articles I come with a couple of ideas. E-mail correspondence is great way to exchange personal opinions, but letters rarely reach the quality in research and form expected from good article. Nevertheless interactive WWW can provide ways to improve this. Looking back to my experience of Internet medias I see at least two good solutions to this. 1) Article submitted to web site together with forum, wich allows censorship free comments. Administrator will need to make categorising and searching system only (rating? different user levels? experienced user involment in editorial staff?) 2) Wiki web, where registred users can edit web pages, an so make improvements to all articles live. This system lays on responsibility of users, and it gives community sence, still being good source of information. Wiki system is not common but I consider it good media, with different paradigm as traditional www/e-mail/usenet ways. The finest example you can see at: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeVisitors Even if the main subject of this wiki is software developement there are some martial arts related pages like: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?AikidoPattern http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?MartialArtsAsSoftwareDevelopmentMetaphor Best regards, G'irts Kalnins ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:32:53 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Internal and/or External Power? On 3/22/01, Mark wrote on utilizing hip power and asked the following questions (snip): "Now the questions: 1) At what level is/should 'putting the hip into it' be emphasized? 2) Does this use of huri enter into our recent discussion around the "authority" of a technique? 3) Are there any specific drills to help develop this technique? 4) Does this concept span across the Korean Arts, or is it specific to TSD/TKD? 5) Is this unique to Korean MAs, or do the other arts develop this as well? 6) ??? I have found that in the little I have learned over the years, use of the hip definitely adds to the power, and actually leaves me less tired at the end of a workout since I am not really "muscling" any techniques. Any other thoughts? Mark" .............................. Mark. Good questions. I am a great proponent of utilizing hip power and have experimented with introducing it at different gup levels and through utilizing different teaching methods. (1) I am a firm believer that it should be introduced from day "one" when teaching stances, explaining the concept of body mechanics and the generation of power, and to give the muscle-memory plenty of time to develop while learning basics and forms. I do not understand the concept of introducing it later at the dan level when many years of habits have formed - - - not to mention not capitalizing on utilizing the dan jon area as a foundation for movement and power generation. (2) Although not directly analogous to the discussion of "authority" of technique as related to the previous Hapkido discussion due to being more of a percussive nature (generating more linear power with your partner), here is an analogy that may work - - the "authority" of fully utilizing hip power can be seen most blatantly with breaking with hand techniques. Speed is important, yes; proper hand position, yes; but, when pushing your board/material limit, basic hip movement integral to your body mechanics will make the difference. Of course you must take breaking seriously each time [inanimate objects are not forgiving of sloppiness], but upper body breaking is heavily influenced by the proper use of the hips. So, there is an authority of technique/delivery being utilized although again, the Hapkido discussion had a different focus. (3) First of all, and this is my opinion [and I expect contrary opinions], I believe "C-stepping" [that is bringing your feet together during your ½ step position] is the most effective way to teach the generation of hip power. It can be learned with "rail-stepping" [that is your feet advance maintaining the same parallel distance like modern WTF], but tends to be much harder this way. What has worked well for me, at the white belt level and seems to develop nicely in higher gups, is teaching [and I'll just discuss the front stance for brevity] and exaggerated half-step "C" step. The teaching technique varies slight based upon the technique you are working (i.e., mechanics are different for technique coming from across the body versus linear technique like the front punch). For an example, moving forward with up-block in front stance-- the student steps into half-stance [feet together] for moving forward into a right front stance, right foot forward and both feet angled 45 degrees to the left [groin off line], then the right foot slides to front stance position - - still angled 45 degree left, until the blocking technique [end wrist torque] and hip rotates/snaps into final forward set foot position simultaneously. This can be done with no, little, or much sine-wave depending upon your background/style/preference. It is a fairly "robotic" way to start, but integrates well quickly into smoother, but powerful hip mechanics. (4) I'd like to say the hip concept is universal in both TSD & TKD, but some focus on it more. Some also [besides ATA] now only introduce it at the dan level. Some may never really get it because they may learn only rail stance, basics in Kibons, or simply, the instructor does not focus on it. Hip power and motion has another whole element when teaching Hapkido. Hip-power generation is taught ("belt side-switching") for basic technique, but the combination of joint torquing, hip-motion/transition and circular foot movement are integral in generating power in wrist locks/throws, etc. There is a marked difference based upon style or preference on the fluidity or abruptness of this latter transition. (5) Hip-power is foundation of many martial arts other than Korean. (6) I personally think your fortunate to have been taught this basic and integral concept. I still see many people who do hyungs/poomse & basics only utilizing half of their body at a time. But, then again, I share your opinion on its importance!!!!!! Hope this is helpful or adds to an interesting discussion! Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 6:36:40 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: a real, live KHF 9th degree grandmaster in Seoul > he trained with Grandmaster Jae-han Ji, which is a lot higher than many ... Who is that? Do you mean Han-jae Ji? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:24:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE:I O U-s This is just a real quick heads-up to readers on the Net that there are some things that were brought up and weren't attended to. If anyone can pitch in, supply info and suggest possibilities it would nice if you would share the wealth. 1.) Sometime back "Jay" referenced GM Chang, Chin Il (and there were a couple of ref made just a day or so ago.) If people can share information about this personality so as to put a human face on a name and talk a little about his training approaches, curriculum, philosophy, etc I think people are very interested. 2.) I understand that there is a KoreA Hapkido Federation and have quite a bit of information so far. I also understand from Mike (Choi) that the KoreA H Fed and the KoreA H Assn may actually just be the same thing depending upon whose material you are reading. It still hasn't been made plain if there is (at the time of this writing) a KoreaN Hapkido Fed or Assn. I didn't see anything on Rays' list and not speaking Korean just yet I feel limited in my resources. 3.) Dakin asked about dissertations and the best he got back was a smartass reply from some bozo in the Midwest (for which I will dutifully let him slam me around on the mat in April.) If there is a MA benefit to be had from reading this dissertation material I would like follow-up information on this. If however there is no real benefit to be gained, a quick disclaimer would help close this off for me. 4.) Following the 14th Hapkido Internationale there were quite a few comments about the seminar itself and some references made to the up-coming one in August. I know that people have made reference to GM Ji doing a seminar through M Whalen and McCarty. If other folks know of activities coming up that would be of interest to the Hapkido community would you please advise, and then re-post a couple of weeks later? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:10:53 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: To think, or not to think.... Dear Chris: "...Maybe we don't see more articles like these because most martial artists are just simpletons who can't take the time to think. Or maybe it's because only children under 10 take MA lessons. Or maybe it's because advertisers don't want to pay magazines for running articles that require a reading level above the third grade. Don't get me wrong, I love reading articles and interviews by and about particular GM's and their recollections about training with their own master. But sometimes it's nice to stretch the old brain muscle...." My wife and I have this discussion almost every morning when we watch the news on the local TV station (Channel 5-WMAQ Chicago) and suffer through some of the most innane commerce-driven poop anyone would dare put on the air. The only thing we are interested in is the traffic and weather and for our sins that's about all that's worth listening to. We then switch over to CNN and take time to revivify all the tissue above our upper-lip and remind ourselves that we actually are someone more than a trained consumer in life. (Not that I have any issues about any of this. Nope, not me.) I wish someone would do a bit of research and find out why the old KICK ILLIUSTRATED folded, or why MA TRAINING seems to have passed. Personally I thought there was some pretty decent material in both of those mags and now I get concerned that JAMA could follow suit. BLACK BELT keeps chugging along but have you ever really READ their content? CLAUDE VAN DAMME meets WWF for the FANTASY ISLAND CHAMPIONSHIPS. And those bozos just keep chugging along. Its almost as though anything with any intellectual content has to get snuck in inspite of the readership. I know it must have something to do with demographics but I'll be damned if I can figure what it is. Unless it comes back to the old saw about the modern US MA generally being more talk and flash than actual training and action. I suppose that's a possibility. Anyhow, my invitation still stands for people who are interested. I will be out of town and away from the Net for the next week for sesshin in California. Take care, everyone and I'll write when I get back. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:55:35 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hips from an ol' hippy Dear Mark: "...Now the questions: 1) At what level is/should 'putting the hip into it' be emphasized? 2) Does this use of huri enter into our recent discussion around the "authority" of a technique? 3) Are there any specific drills to help develop this technique? 4) Does this concept span across the Korean Arts, or is it specific to TSD/TKD? 5) Is this unique to Korean MAs, or do the other arts develop this as well? 6) ??? I have found that in the little I have learned over the years, use of the hip definitely adds to the power, and actually leaves me less tired at the end of a workout since I am not really "muscling" any techniques...." Just a couple of quick thoughts from my view and then maybe other people will want to pitch in with their thoughts. a.) Regarding levels of development. When I first began organizing the DOCHANG JOURNALproject one issue was "how" to organize the material in the sense of understanding how people learn. In a true sense (and as you can tell from the responses to Rays' "1st Things" question) organization can be pretty diverse depending on the teachers' values and priorities. One point that helped me over the hump in this case was changing my view on levels. Instead of saying such&such should be taught as THIS level, I determined that by the time a person reaches a particular stage in their training they would have been expected to deal with a particular technique or construct. In this way some style might stress hip movement from day one while other styles focus on gross motor skills and consider hip movement a "refinement". Personally I think correct use of the hip should start from the first week but only given increasing emphasis as one develops. Remember those newbies have a lot on their plate. b.) Use of hips certainly is involved when one discusses "authority". I have heard at least one presenter at a seminar characterize it as the "stamp of commitment" to a technique. Personally I think that might be a "bit" of an overstatement, but you will notice that the idea DID stick with me so it was probably a good teaching strategy. In Hapkido, however, use of the hips also encompasses applications in "displacement", maintaning balance, execution of sound rotary or turning movements (pivots), and effective positioning when using the hip as pivot-point for various throws. c.) A popular drill for hip motion that comes up again and again in MA training is the popular 1-2-3-Do drill. I'm sure you already do this one at your school. It's the drill where you do the first three motions or "sets" to establish proper kinesthetic (feel) for correct placement and motion. The last is the actual execution of the technique. In this way, obviously one gets to experience appropriate placement four time for each actual throw, kick, stike, etc. Another is breaking the striking techniques and kicks into staged counts and making the actual hip motion a required part of one or more of the counts, before actually executing the strike or kick as a single technique. d.) To the best of my knowledge there is no martial art in the world today that does not focus to some degree on proper use of the hips and waist. I hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 7:42:08 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #192 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.