From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #206 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 31 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 206 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Sang Do Kwan lineage the_dojang: Re: kkw dan fees the_dojang: John Chambers the_dojang: black belt goal and experienced white belts the_dojang: Re: experienced newbies the_dojang: Re: Scars/Jerry Peterson the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #204 the_dojang: Dan Fees Re: the_dojang: Re: kkw dan fees the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:41:40 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sang Do Kwan lineage In a message dated 3/30/2001 5:35:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << For example, the translation of Shotokan (which is ussually translated as meaning "house of Shoto") is Sang Do Kwan. The Sang Do Kwan and Chung Do Kwan both have a lineage which goes to Gichen Funakoshi the founder of Japanese Shotokan. >> Erik, This is interesting and I have never heard of Sang Do Kwan before ... could you elaborate alittle bit more on this ? Thank you. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:01:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: kkw dan fees just a curiosity question... to you school owners online... how do you explain to your students who read the digest, why kkw charges one fee and the school charges another? It seems to me that it would be rather bad business, for professional instructors, who teach full time and who have overhead to pay, to slice their own throat in this manner? seems to me that it would not be beneficial to encourage your students to read the digest.... which is a shame as there is often times, very good information passed. Then also, if you have a web site and intended to link to the digest for the edification of your students/members... sounds like business suicide. if they have approached you, how do you then handle this? i am not advocating ripping your students off or charging exhorbiant fees, but a school has to make money as well. just curious, frank Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: hwkeyes98@excite.com Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:13:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: John Chambers <> Is the same John Chambers that was the Chief of Police in Atlanta? Thanks Hwkeyes _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:19:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: black belt goal and experienced white belts Hello All My instructor and I were discussing this about 2 months ago when we were driving to one of the branch schools to help with promotion. I remember when I started Tae Kwon Do. I went to my first class and really enjoyed it. I cant really tell you why I did but I did. I still to this day feel the same way about classes. My goal was never to make it to black belt. My goal was to keep doing it as long as I enjoyed doing it. It took me just over 6 years to make it to black belt because I started college and was unable to make it back for promotions every 2 months. In are schools it can be done in 2 years providing you go to every promotion. Because of this I am now bowing to people who were white belts when I was a brown belt. Does this upset me? Not in the least because every time I step into the dojang I feel at home, surrounded by friends. As far as transferring schools... Our school leaves it up to the instructor. Our instructor allows students to keep their belt. There was one student who requested to start over as a white belt. He was actually a black belt in some form of Karate (Not sure what style). He had not had any martial arts training for over 10 years, but his children were starting and he wanted to go through the ranks with them. It was fairly obvious that he had not lost much in the way of technique and he was quickly moved up through the ranks. I think that if I was starting over in tkd I would have a problem going back to white belt but would respect the instructors decision. As it is I'm starting hapkiye (supplementing to tkd) and beginning as a white belt. The arts have very little in common and I feel like a fish out of water in the dojang again and I love every minute of it. I guess there really isn't much you can do about the situation, other than respect the instructors decision. Good luck in what ever happens. Ken Legendre 2nd Dan tkd (Hopefully soon to be 3rd) 10 gup Hapkiye innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:41:04 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: experienced newbies Thought I might weigh in on this topic, as it causes a good bit of consternation. Once upon a time I would take in any student at any rank they would choose to claim, figuring it was not where you are but where you are going that mattered. No one would promote unless they meet the standards we set in our dojang. But then I started to have students come from programs that were extremely lenient in what was expected of their students. (McDojang? Maybe.) At first I would accept these students, only to have them be frustrated at their lack of knowledge and skill. Other students, especially lower rank, would see the lack of skill and knowledge and question among themselves how such students received red or black belts. So I have modified the criteria. All students claiming a rank need to perform the basic poomse or forms or kata for their rank, if they come from an art that has such things. For example, if a student claims 1st dan status in WTF, but doesn't know Koryo, or has real difficulty, we discuss another rank to start with. Regardless of what a certificate from anybody might say. If you claim ITF 1st dan, and don't know kwang gae, Po eun and Gye Baek, same thing. Shotokan? Show Bassai (te) and Kusanku (kwanku, kanku dai, whatever). Can't remember the name of your forms? Here's a nice belt that comes in the bag with your new uniform. If you show a rapid recollection, you rapidly advance. It's not perfect, but I expect advanced students to be, well, advanced. That way everybody is on the same page. Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:45:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Scars/Jerry Peterson I haven't viewed them, so I can't give them a review, but concerning weight training, Jerry Peterson's SCARS Institute has just released a weight training video. For a report on them, go to http://www.scars.com/access5.html>>>>> Hey isn't he the middle aged guy (and not a particularly good swimmer) who single handedly took on a platoon of Navy Seals and drowned them all?.... JAck ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:51:35 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #204 Jack Ouellette > > Hmmm, Jack... did you mean to write "prescibed" instead of "proscribed" ? Proscribed means condemned or forbidden, or did I read your intent wrong? Thanks Kerry>>>> I meant Prescribed. Now that I have the "advanced AOL 6.0" I have to send these posts via aol.aol mail, no spell check..... kudos on your spell check Jack ------------------------------ From: "CA&B Skjold" Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 04:09:44 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Dan Fees Which Kukiwon Certificate I may not totally understand but our school is WTF and we get Kukkiwon certificates and my 1st Dan test is going to cost me $400 ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 8:18:17 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: kkw dan fees > how do you explain to your students who read the > digest, why kkw charges one fee and the school > charges another? It seems to me that it would be > rather bad business, for professional > instructors, who teach full time and who have > overhead to pay, to slice their own throat in > this manner? I've usually found honesty to be the best policy (not saying that you are not being honest). e.g. show an accounting by line item; Kukkiwon diploma = $ 70 Testing fee = $250 [insert others] = $100 _____ Total cost $420 I recall way-back-when, I paid $300 for my 1st Dan Kukkiwon. The Korean instructor claimed all the fee went to straight to the Kukkiwon, he got none of it, nada/zip/zero. Sooner or later I learned the truth and realized that I had been lied to. While I still know that instructor I have never been able to trust him since. So given that the facts are easy enough to find, especially in this day and age, I find it best to be totally and completely honest. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 8:32:09 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #206 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.