From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To:        the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #207
Reply-To:  the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
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The_Dojang-Digest            Sun, 1 April 2001         Vol 08 : Num 207

In this issue:

       the_dojang: wtf/kkw fees
       the_dojang: Jerry Peterson
       the_dojang: Phony SEALS
       the_dojang: Re: Sang Do Kwan
       the_dojang: Re: KKW
       the_dojang: credentials check
       the_dojang: Professor John Chambers
       Re: the_dojang: Re: KKW
       the_dojang: $25 in Korea
       Re: the_dojang: $25 in Korea
       the_dojang: .
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From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" <martialarts2000@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:44:10 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: wtf/kkw fees

My .02 worth on these fees.
When I first got involved in the WTF/KKW style of TKD, my Korean instructor 
told me that all the fees he collects goes to the WTF/KKW. Of course I now 
know different, but for years I had to tell people that it was going to cost 
them anywhere from 250 - 350 for 1st Dan and that was just the beginning. 
After I learned the "truth", I would tell my students honestly about where 
their money was going. $70.00 to the WTF/KKW and the rest to the Grandmaster 
to defray his expenses. Didn't have to many students want their WTF 
certification after that. Not until I met Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky, 
probably the most honest TKD Grandmaster in the martial arts. He broke the 
fees down for me and my students and he was actually less expensive than the 
rest.
But I don't put too much stock in the "certificates" from the WTF/KKW as 
they think of the BB student as a number, not an individual. I would rather 
receive a certificate from someone who knows me personally or at least trys 
to find out more about me rather than just my being a number on a roster.

If I offend anybody,??

George Petrotta
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------------------------------

From: RDNHJMS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:10:24 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Jerry Peterson

<<Hey isn't he the middle aged guy (and not a particularly good swimmer) who 
single handedly took on a platoon of Navy Seals and drowned them all?>>

Jack,

Now that is an interesting story that I would like to see on videotape.  One 
of my students was an instructor at BUD/S when Peterson was granted a 
contract to develop a curriculum for them.  He did, but before they 
instituted it, Peterson went commercial with his claims of being the official 
trainer for the SEALS.  Well, needless to say, they dropped him like a hot 
rock.  If anybody has any questions regarding what he developed for the 
SEALS, that they dropped, you should probably ask a SEAL or former SEAL.  I'm 
sure we are bound to have at least one on the list.

Rick Nabors

------------------------------

From: RDNHJMS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:26:45 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Phony SEALS

While I am on the subject of SEALS, it leads me to the world of phony SEALS, 
those  wannabe's who claim to have been one America's elite's.  I have had a 
recent experience with one of these wannabe's, but I will spare you his name 
for now, until we get his name posted on the "Wall of Shame."  You can check 
it out at:
www.cyberseals.org

Folks that have questions about the authenticity of someone's claims can 
submit a tip directly through the site, or email me privately and I'll check 
them out for you.

And for all of you wannabe's out there that have spread your stories of 
adventures as SEALS, watch out.  Sooner or later it will catch up to you.  
And one day you may turn around and meet a real Navy SEAL.

Just so there's no confusion.  No, I am not, nor have I every been an elite 
Navy SEAL.  But I did serve 20 years in the USN, retiring as a Chief Petty 
Officer.  And the claims of these wannabe's really burns me.  Too bad we do 
not have such a simple way a verifying the authenticity of all the phony 
Masters and Grandmasters out there.

V/R,
Rick Nabors
CPO, USN (Ret)

------------------------------

From: cspiller@e3mil.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:03:19 -0800
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sang Do Kwan

<<  For example, the translation of Shotokan (which is ussually translated as

meaning "house of Shoto") is Sang Do Kwan. The Sang Do Kwan and Chung Do Kwan

both have a lineage which goes to Gichen Funakoshi the founder of Japanese 

Shotokan. >>

>Erik,
This is interesting and I have never heard of Sang Do Kwan before ... could
 you elaborate alittle bit more on this ?

Thank you.

Illona<

Perhaps he meant the Sang Moo Kwan (also known as Song Moo KWan). This is a
style of Teakwon-Do that was founded by Grand Master Byung Jik Ro. 

The World Song Moo Kwan Association's website is at www.songmookwan.com. Perhaps
this would be a helpful place to start.

Taekwon,

Chris

"Every Experience of Beauty Points to Infinity"  Hans Urs von Balthasar
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------------------------------

From: "Frank Clay" <master.clay@ShaolinTemple.zzn.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:04:53 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: KKW

Ray,

No offense but you have to be kidding... I don't 
know of any school that gives an itemized 
breakdown of an exam. 

Personally, I think that a discussion as to dan 
fees should be on an "instructors only" type of 
list. As far as being honest... I am very honest 
with my students. I prefer issuing kwan 
certification however, if someone expresses a 
desire of doing sport TKD then i'll issue KKW.

I simply think that there are matters which 
should best be left to instructors... i know 
that there are unscrupulous ones out there, but 
my feeling is that an instructor should be able 
to charge what his worth is, as well as going by 
local demographics. In indicating what KKW or 
any other certification is, in essence this is 
made much more difficult, i.e. causing the "i'm 
not gonna pay for that syndrome". Further, it 
makes closing the sale more difficult as it 
gives rise to another potential objection...

just my 2 cents

Frank Clay 
Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net
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------------------------------

From: "Gecko K. Martial Arts" <geckokenpo@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:23:35 
Subject: the_dojang: credentials check

I have always wondered if there was a way to check an instructors ITF 
credential (for example to confirm
that they actually are a 5th Dan in ITF when they claim to be) such as 
checking up on credentials during a job interview ect...  Any way to go
about this?

Thanks for your help,

Sandy
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------------------------------

From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:40:15 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Professor John Chambers

RE: John Chambers

I don't know if he was chief of police but I do know that he was a mayoral 
candidate who appeared several times on Ted Turner's talk show. You can reach 
him at www.martialartsusa.com 

Richard Hackworth
http://ma_success.tripod.com

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:20:39 PST
Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: KKW

> Ray,
> 
> No offense but you have to be kidding... I don't 
> know of any school that gives an itemized 
> breakdown of an exam. 

Nope, not kidding.  I didn't originate the idea, it came from several
others.  Once I saw it I realized that, to me, that was really the only way
to go, open and honest.  Just one of those lessons that we should not only 
teach, but exemplify.  IMHO.

ITF dan fees are well defined.  KKW dan fees are well defined.  Same
for Sin Moo Hapkido, Doce Pares Eskrima, etc.  I believe that all arts 
should do likewise.  What is there to hide?

Instructors should charge what they want, and can get, for their hard
work.  But I can't see any reason to not be truthful with a student.  Would
you want a student that wasn't truthful with you?  IMHO we just don't need
dishonest people in the martial arts that continue to make claims like 'the
Kukkiwon will charge me $500 for your TKD 1st Dan diploma'.

IMHO, yet again...   :)

Ray Terry
raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

------------------------------

From: Cookson Family <cookson@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:25:29 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: $25 in Korea

According to a web based cost-of-living comparison, it is approximately 
1.6 times more expensive to live in Korea (Seoul) than the US (Atlanta). 
This doesn't address Ray's question about the value of $25 Korean 
dollars exactly, but seems to highlight a disparity in fees at Kukkiwon 
($25 for Korea - $120 for US).

Bob
East Coast TKD


------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 8:19:07 PDT
Subject: Re: the_dojang: $25 in Korea

> According to a web based cost-of-living comparison, it is approximately 
> 1.6 times more expensive to live in Korea (Seoul) than the US (Atlanta). 
> This doesn't address Ray's question about the value of $25 Korean 
> dollars exactly, but seems to highlight a disparity in fees at Kukkiwon 
> ($25 for Korea - $120 for US).

Thanks.

Do you have that URL?  I've found one for US cities, but not for international.
e.g. I could live at a similar level for exactly half of what I make here if I
moved to Charleston, West Virginia (~60 miles from where I was born & raised).

Ray Terry
raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 8:21:27 PDT
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #207
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