From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #213 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 3 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 213 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #212 the_dojang: Re: Of Bennies and Perks the_dojang: dan fee the_dojang: Another state heard from the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #211 Re: the_dojang: Orig. TKD forms the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:12:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #212 In a message dated 4/3/2001 12:27:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << http://www.kattaekwondo.com/ShotokanKarateandtkdKimSol.htm >> Thank you Sally ... really enjoyed the first one but the second left me confused as the direction of his essay ... and how it links to Shotokan. I didn't find any links at all. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:19:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Of Bennies and Perks Dear Hal, Richard et al: "...Hal Whalen asked what is the cost of Dan fees from various organizations? My question is what is the value?..." Let me first say that at the time of my 1st Degree, I paid GM Myung Kwang Sik (WHF) $100. My 2nd degree was $200 and my 3rd, $300. I suspect that one can reasonably extrapolate from that pattern each at the present time. Since GM MYung runs his own organization and since travel to and from training was paid for in addition to any fee he may have derived from revenues, I can only surmise that he pocketed all proceeds himself. Regarding bennies, may I say that fee resulted in a certificate verifying the specified rank under the auspices of the WHF. Belt, uniform, patch, etc were all purchased in addition. Individual membership, of itself $35US, in the WHF brought a patch, promise of a newsletter, a 10% reduction in the purchase of books and tapes published by the WHF, and a lapel pin. A school membership brought a WHF banner and cert of assignation or recognition from the WHF. The value, to address Richards' question, of these certifications is one of applied rather than intrinsic value. Just like gold, which would be just another metal, unless people carry some particular regard for the institution or the personality, the certificate is really just another piece of paper. What is being purchased is esentially the authentification or the verification of ones' status with the integrity and standing of the dispensing institution or personality. Ergo: We have a lot of discussion in this Net about qualities and aspects which would enhance or inflate the standing of a particular organization (size, political influence) or personality (lineage,affiliation) over another. Since these qualities tend to be very ephemeral and delicate, anything that casts shadows on the character, nature, ethic, viability, solvency, competence, etc., of the institutions or personalities can be the kiss of death. Hence people get real skittish about talking about such things as affiliation, skill level, lineage and business practices. (We have seen much of these thin skins revealed in these last months, yes?) How come? Because most people have only a handshake relationship with various personalities and organizations and have expanded that simple relationship to suggest something much more. In the world of Martial Theatre illusions, suggestion and ineuendo are everything. Skill level, with its demands of training, effort and commitment are next to nothing. The result is, and you may not be surprised, that a person will pay perhaps $1000 for a 8th or 9th degree BB, but would balk at paying $500 dollars for another 3 months of training.The same can be said of people who pay to attend a seminar and then spend two or three days standing on the edge of the mat trying to absorb technique by osmosis rather than risk an inflated rep out on the mat. Its nice to be back. The Sesshin was incredible. Sorry I ran off at the mouth. I guess I missed the Net, neh? Best Wishes, Bruce WWW.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "john sodihlhxh" Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:51:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: dan fee >I can tell you from experience that the Dan >certification fees are what some people would consider unreasonable. I >think >that the reason instructors want to see the fees set at the lowest possible >rate is to be able to make it accessible to more students. I have seen >several outstanding students wait to test only because the fee for Dan >certification is beyond their means. Some organization will adjust the >fees > >Richard Hackworth >www.nationalhapkido.net > IMHO 100 bucks is reasonable for a first dan.. 500 is excessive. that said ... if a guy is complaining about 100 buck dan test fee... and standing there wearing 75 dollar tennis shoes ..how long will those shoes last? compare it to the hours of extra time you put in after class or before class working with a BB candidate. or that same candidate takes his girl out to dinner and a movie... spends 40 for dinner and 20 at the movie... whole nights entertainment only last 4 hours. hmmmm maybe 100 is too low. lol rambling again Bill _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:00:00 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Another state heard from NEWSBREAK Arkansas Legislature Introduces Bill to Regulate Martial Arts Instructors Arkansas House Bill HB2606, is described as "An act to require martial arts instructors of minor children to obtain a criminal background check; and for other purposes." This is an added expense and burden to martial arts instructors. Some questions that come to mind are: 1. How do you define instructor? Does this require that leadership team members must have background checks as well? 2. What incident provoked this and would a background check have prevented it? 3. Why is a such a small industry, the martial arts, being singled out? 4. What is meant by the phrase, "and for other purposes."? 5. What will be the expenses involved? 6. How much will this cost tax payers? 7. Why are current laws insufficient to protect children? 8. What indication do you have that martial arts instructors need to be singled out? NAPMA urges ALL readers of this email, regardless of where you live, to contact Representative Chaney Taylor Jr. at 870-793-5297 in opposition of this bill. You can review the bill here, http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/2001/scripts/ablr/bills/bill.asp? be sure to search for the following Bill: HB2606 George Petrotta http://taekwondo.4dw.com http://hapkido.4dw.com http://gpetrott.webjump.com ISA CONSULTATION GROUP includes ISA Martial Arts, ISA Web Design and ISA Consulting Services! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:37:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #211 > From: Harold Whalen > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 21:08:44 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Dan Fees > > Does anyone know the Dan fees of the Korea Hapkido Federation,The Kidohae,Or > the World Hapkido Federation it would be nice to see how much and why > certification has such a price. > > Hal I believe Kidohae fees are: 1st $70, 2nd $120, 3rd $200, 4th $350, 5th $500, 6th $700, 7th $900 and 8th $1000. Maybe Steve Seo could confirm these. Rich ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 16:36:18 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Orig. TKD forms > Could you provide information on or off list about how > to purchase Master Dupaquier's videos? he can apparently be contacted at: Mandeville Karate Training Center 2050 Spartan Drive Mandeville, La 70448-1965 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 20:22:50 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #213 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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