From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #215 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 4 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 215 In this issue: the_dojang: testing fees the_dojang: Florida Hapkido the_dojang: Re: Dan fees the_dojang: Re: Charting forms the_dojang: Background Checks the_dojang: RE: Charting Forms the_dojang: Re: Arkansas bill the_dojang: San Francisco Open the_dojang: RE: Todds' Cert Questions the_dojang: Re: Arkansas House Bill HB2606 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerseyj Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: testing fees I'm sorry folks, I just don't get it. From my perspective, the fees should be comensurate with the costs of administering a test. I don't understand why a 9th Dan should be $1,000 and a 1st Dan $100, when it doesn't cost ten times as much (I think ?) to create the test. Clearly, test fees are simply a way for these folks to collect money, yet these are the very same folks that get upset if you call them an "industry". I"m not saying these folks are evil, but let's call a spade a spade here. BTW, anyone know of any martial artists on the island of St. Thomas in the US Virgin Islands ? If so, please email me directly as I don't always get to reading lit email. Jerry 1st Dan +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning." - Benjamin Franklin +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:08:04 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Florida Hapkido I teach Hapkido at the International TKD Academy in Daytona Beach on Tues. and Thurs. nights it is owned by Master Il Un Chung, and I also teach Hapkido at Daytona Beach Community College on Friday afternoon, Todd send me an e-mail and I'll give you times and addresses since you are gonna be in town you are more than welcome to come and work out.. where are you gonna be staying in Daytona Beach? Also let me know the dates and maybe Javier Agosto and or Master Rick Nabors might be able to come over and work out,, I don't know everyone's schedule,, just a thought.. let me know dude. Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:14:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dan fees I don't have it in front of me, but I know the progression doesn't hold for the WHF. 1st - $100, 2nd - $200, 3rd - $300, but I believe 4th is $500 and 5th - $1000. It probably goes up another $500 per level from there, but again I don't have the listing handy, and it's from a couple years back anyway. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Charting forms I assume you're talking about writeups for students to refer to, not a shorthand notation for techniques. You can get more elaborate, but simple ascii text has always been fine for me, Just set up some standard conventions like: - - ^ v > < for direction indicators (many people use N S E W), where starting position is facing ^ (North). - - cw is clockwise as viewed from above, ccw is counterclockwise - - left 90 degrees or 1/4 turn ccw - - left x stance means left foot forward. - - direction indicator is ending position and follow them through all your writeups. For instance, my write-up for Tae Guek il-jang starts something like this: 1. 1/4 turn ccw moving left foot into a left walking stance, doing a left downblock. < 2. Step right foot into a right walking stance, doing a right middle punch. < 3. 1/2 turn moving right foot into a right walking stance, doing a right downblock. > and so on. It doesn't matter too much what conventions you use, just be consistent with them and people will understand. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Gregory Giddins Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:50:19 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Background Checks I have got to agree with Cheree on this. I have no problem with the idea of Criminal background checks for instructors. The only real addition I would throw out there is I would lobby for the inclusion of any kind of 'recreational instructor' of minors. I would want gymnastics teachers, soccer coaches, and anyone else who has exclusive access to my child for periods of time to get checked out. I'm pretty sure the YMCA requires fingerprint/background checks for all it's staff, from karate instructors to swim coaches. Why is that such a threat? If my childs insructor is a sex offender, or has spent time in jail for Manslaughter, I would want to know that up front. And if I (as an instructor) have been convicted of Assault with a deadly weapon six times over the past 15 years I suppose the parents of my young students deserve to know that. Background checks in themselves aren't really a problem for me, but then again, I've never comitted a felony. Where I see a little problem is making the process exclusive to martail arts teachers. I think that will cause more problms than it will solve. As was mentioned before, that would require defining "Martial Arts" and "Instructor". And I think attempting to do so will create quite the mess in the legislature. Instead of trying to kill the measure, I would try to expand the measure. Make ALL coaches and instuctors of minors have to go through the check. (GASP! Did he say that!?!?!?!? Yep, I did. ALL of us.) Of course, I only say this because I have nothing I don't want the parents of my students to find out, and I don't fear the Government (which makes me the minority both in the MA world, and in Colorado). I don't lay awake at night terrified of the possibility of the GKRF (Government Karate Regulatory Force) storming in and beating me with rubber hoses for being out of compliance with their regulations. I'd just fill out the paperwork and get on with my life. All this would mean for me is a minor inconvinence of getting off my duff on a weeknight (when there is no class, of course) and completing the paperwork. And no, I'm not all that concerned that this background check measure would lead to out-of-control regulations, gov't certification of schools, karate police, increased taxes, SWAT team raids of taekwondo dojangs, barcodes being tattooed on instructors foreheads, exclusive "Karate" license plates for teachers, [insert your personal expression of legislative paranoia here], etc. etc. I just think they want to protect the kids. And background checks for coaches/teachers is about the only tool available to them at this point. If we regulated ourselves we wouldnt' have to worry about the gummint doing it for us, but that's quite another discussion.... Greg 'Not a Felon' Giddins ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:52:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Charting Forms Dear Maureen: "...Any hints on how to chart a form; kata or weapon? Sometimes (OK MOST) times memory just isn't enough to get through my practice when learning a new form. Hoping to video an advanced student with our teacher but notes would be a great plus...." I want to help you out but I am not sure what you are asking for exactly. I have photographed a number of forms (K. Hyung) and quite recently sequentially photographed a series of sword forms for a Kumdo notebook and developed brief descriptions of the actions to accompany each shot. Still, I am not sure if this is what you have in mind. On the other hand I often rough out forms on paper with a straight edge and compass to examine the overall pattern (J. embusen) of the hyung and I actually find that quite a bit more challenging than the photographic approach. There are matters of direction, proportion, perspective and motion that all need to be taken into account ( and weapons add a peculiar "4th" dimension) but its something a person can pick-up pretty readily. If you have some specific ideas that I can help you with I would be glad to share whatever I can. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:59:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Arkansas bill Cheree wrote: > >As a teacher, I immediately inquired about those clearances (Act 33\34) >before I signed my younger brother. I didn't know this man from Adam. Would >you feel comfortable leaving your child alone with a complete stranger, Black >Belt or not? The instructor, who is now my fiance, listened to my reasoning >and sent for the certificate that day. It spoke volumes about his character >and his dedication to his students. > >The fee for these clearances are nominal. Such certificates are only $10.00 >each in Pennsylvania. They cover child abuse/sexual misconduct involving a >minor and major criminal offenses (Felonies) I personally would not want a >person in either category teaching my child (younger brother). > >You cannot put a price on a parents (or big sisters') peace-of-mind. All a clearance says is that this person hasn't been caught and convicted before. I'm a father; I obviously can't disagree with a parent wanting to know about the person he/she's leaving his/her child with; or with obtaining such clearances. However: does every school teacher, day care center worker, Little League coach, Boy Scout or Girl Scout leader, sunday school teacher, etc, EVERY single person who will ever be alone for an instant with your child - --- ALL of them need to obtain clearances? Doesn't look like so nominal a thing anymore, does it. Why single out martial arts instructors? > >Oh, and I believe the Martial Arts 'Industry' (as appalling as that title may >sound to true Martial Artists) is no longer small... > Probably there are many more 'schools' teaching out of health clubs, YMCA's, dance studios, etc than storefronts. The number of storefronts with over 200 students in a month are extremely small. How many customers do you think a normal dry cleaner has to have to stay open? Probably over 200 *a day*!. Yes, we're still small. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:20:23 PDT Subject: the_dojang: San Francisco Open San Francisco Open 2001 National TKD Championship Saturday, May 19, 2001 St. Mary's College 1928 St. Mary's Road Moraga, California For more info contact Yu's Martial Arts, Byong Hong Yu, at 925-962-1000 or FAX = 925-962-1001. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:39:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Todds' Cert Questions Dear Todd: Damn, and I thought I was full of questions! I had a couple of thoughts as I read through you list and maybe you wouldn't mind if I dropped a couple of them, yes? "...If the founder of an art has an organization why wouldn't everyone want to be associated with his organization?..." I have wondered about this each and every time somebody starts up some "new" style or "new" martial art. How come whats already out there just never seems enough. People seem to be in an awful all-fire hurry to put their own unique spin on what they are doing and the result is rarely anything particularly different from what they started with. "...Why would I want certification A, B, C or D or why not all of them? Is more certification for the same art better? What is the difference in requirements for different certifications? Is certification A less stringent than certification B?..." I, too, wonder a lot about the myriad of certs that are available. Questions like, "if two certs are good, are four certs better" or is it just throwing bad money after good? I have a drivers' license from Illinois. If I go across my borders and get licenses from Indiana and Wisconsin am I more of a driver then? On my Ill license I am authorized to drive auto and motorcycle. If I add truck driver (CDL) am I more of a driver? I have been researching Hapkido for a good many years and while I am finding that the various arts are more similar than different I have also found a distinct reticence on the part of practitioners to submit to actual objective assessment on a regular basis. It kind of reminds me about all the arguments against standardized testing in the public school systems, ya know? What is it that keeps people from allowing themselves to be assessed by a board of their peers rather than mail off a fee to some distant organizations and collect a trophy for the wall. Isn't the cert suppose to suggest some rite of passage? Isn't that what its doing on the wall? Lets make this personal. I could decide to send off a fee in 6 months to an organization and receive a 4th degree BB cert for my effort. Why would I want to wait the expected couple of years and put myself through the inconvenience of arranging a board test by my peers to validate my competence as a teacher and 4th degree Black Belt in Hapkido? I think you raised some pretty interesting questions, Todd. Best Wishes, Bruce www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:20:34 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Arkansas House Bill HB2606 In a message dated 4/4/2001 9:51:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << "An act to require martial arts instructors of minor children to obtain a criminal background check; and for other purposes." ... >> None of the instructors, including me, haven't said we didn't approve of background checks ... what we disapprove of is the wording in the bill with the "and for other purposes". The part about the background checks is to blind you to the other things later on they may want to add to this ... which they will (or why else word it that way ?). They know that if we protest this bill ... it puts us in a bad light ... when all we want them to do is re-word it so that is all they want to do ... and then include the following : Children spend time with many different professional instructors: music, dance, swimming, sports. Any of these instructors could be dangerous; therefore, we should require all softball coaches, guitar teachers, lifeguards, dance instructors, and scout masters to undergo thorough, government-approved background checks, especially those scout masters - they go camping alone in the woods with young boys! - -Children spend more time at home than at martial arts school or anywhere else, so harm is most likely to befall a child at or near home. Therefore, we should enact laws to require background checks of all adults living or working within a five mile radius of any child. These laws will reduce the chance of harm to a child by preventing those adults from being near the child. Cable and telephone installers, sanitation workers, lawn crews, pizza deliverers, neighbors - all will need to be investigated. If your next door neighbor has a history of abusing children, then he/she must be monitored, restrained, or forced to move. This is what we are getting at ... and why we also say ... why pick on just martial arts schools ? Illona ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:59:37 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #215 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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